Catholics are not Christians?

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Stojakapimp

But you have to understand that Tradition came before the Bible. Catholics are a whole lot more traditional than Protestants, although Catholics periodically do alter some things. It all comes down to Sola Scriptura. If you teach that the Bible is the only thing necessary to learn about your faith and fully participate in a Christian life, then of course you are going to have some 200+ divisions (Protestantism). But it cannot be scripture alone. Without the Church and it's teachings, people will make up what they want to believe.

Just realize that Tradition came first...not the Bible. A lot of people tend to forget that the Bible as we know it today didn't even exist until the 4th Century, when the Orthodox Church at the Council of Carthage decided what books were to go in

Trouble is, too many people think that when they crack open their English-language Bible at home, that that's how it was written centuries ago. They cannot think for themselves. They are the true sheeple.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Doug makes an interesting point.

I've always found it amusing that fundamentalist Protestants place so much faith in the Bible, when the religious texts were included or excluded from the Bible by that same Catholic church that is so guilty of being "accursed" for their extra-Biblical practices.

If the very institution that determined the Bible canon is so far off base, than how do you place so much trust in the Bible itself?

 

[Netopia]

Just realize that Tradition came first...not the Bible.

Jesus Speaking....

Mark 7:6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order
to observe your own traditions!

Now He wasn't speaking to Catholics, but to Pharisees... and I don't use this verse to call Catholics hypocrites. My point in using this verse is to demonstrate that a religion putting emphasis on tradition as equal to or above Scripture is nothing new. Jesus saw it in His day and rebuked the people who were doing it. Now, Jesus doesn't say "scripture", He says "commands of God"... but the commands to which He refers are things that are written in the Holy Scriptures.... things like in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. I think that this passage makes it clear that ANY TIME there is a tradition that is in even the slightest way leaning toward contradicting ANY Holy Scripture, that the tradition in question should be done away with.

Joe

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Netopia

Just realize that Tradition came first...not the Bible.

Jesus Speaking....

Mark 7:6He replied, "Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written:
" 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
7They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'
8You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men."
9And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order
to observe your own traditions!

Now He wasn't speaking to Catholics, but to Pharisees... and I don't use this verse to call Catholics hypocrites. My point in using this verse is to demonstrate that a religion putting emphasis on tradition as equal to or above Scripture is nothing new. Jesus saw it in His day and rebuked the people who were doing it. Now, Jesus doesn't say "scripture", He says "commands of God"... but the commands to which He refers are things that are written in the Holy Scriptures.... things like in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. I think that this passage makes it clear that ANY TIME there is a tradition that is in even the slightest way leaning toward contradicting ANY Holy Scripture, that the tradition in question should be done away with.

Joe

You're missing the point completely!

The tradition being referred to, in this case, is the tradition of following God: Prayer to God, keeping holy the Sabbath, worshipping no other Gods, etc. You know...the whole Ten Commandments bit.

There are many traditions that weree been in place in Judaism well before the Bible became written word. Where do you think the words in the Bible came from? Written versions of the traditions followed by the Hebrews!


I will agree, however, to the path you were heading on how the Catholic Church holds to many man-made rules and restrictions. That's part of why I eventually left Catholicism behind.

 

[plastick]

You guys are focusing on all the wrong things! Its not about religion. Its all about Jesus Christ. Nothing else. It is written that Jesus was crusified along with the law. Its not about following the ten commandments. Its not about following a specific Christian religion such as Catholosism. Its about giving your life over to God by haveing an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[edmundoab]

I believe they are still christians...

man... christianity has diversed so much,

 

[Fraggster]

Originally posted by: Stefan
In this thread here

Flyermax2k3 stated that Catholics were not Christians. Nobody really seemed to refute that statement and I'm a little curious to know why. It was my understanding that Jesus Christ started the first Catholic Church and appointed Peter as the first pope. This would seem to say that not only were Catholics Christian, but also that they were the very first Chrisitans. Am I mistaken?

WE ARE TOO CHRISTIANS, FVCKING PPL AND ALL THIS SH!T ALL THE TIME. GIVE IT A FVCKING REST ALREADY!:disgust:

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Fraggster

Originally posted by: Stefan
In this thread here

Flyermax2k3 stated that Catholics were not Christians. Nobody really seemed to refute that statement and I'm a little curious to know why. It was my understanding that Jesus Christ started the first Catholic Church and appointed Peter as the first pope. This would seem to say that not only were Catholics Christian, but also that they were the very first Chrisitans. Am I mistaken?

WE ARE TOO CHRISTIANS, FVCKING PPL AND ALL THIS SH!T ALL THE TIME. GIVE IT A FVCKING REST ALREADY!:disgust:

um, wow, don't even know what to say. so much irony in that statement it's just...unbelievable

 

[Rio Rebel]

The irony is certainly there, but I feel that same level of disgust with all the anti-Catholic statements here. It is very, very disappointing that so many technology-oriented people have such horrific ways of dealing with others.

After coming here for the last several years, I'd take rednecks over computer geeks any day of the week when it comes to sensitivity.

 

[Yzzim]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
The irony is certainly there, but I feel that same level of disgust with all the anti-Catholic statements here. It is very, very disappointing that so many technology-oriented people have such horrific ways of dealing with others.

After coming here for the last several years, I'd take rednecks over computer geeks any day of the week when it comes to sensitivity.

Anti-Catholic, Anti-Christian, Anti-Religious statments are almost second nature....especially here.

Welcome to the anonymity of the internet I guess.

 

[Fritzo]

*sigh*

When on the OT forums, NEVER discuss:

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. The Great Pumpkin

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
*sigh*

When on the OT forums, NEVER discuss:

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. The Great Pumpkin

I'm quite puzzled why you have been involved in some conversation in this thread then

 

[Rio Rebel]

Weird repost.***

 

[Netopia]

The tradition being referred to, in this case, is the tradition of following God: Prayer to God, keeping holy the Sabbath, worshipping no other Gods, etc. You know...the whole Ten Commandments bit.

Go read the passage in its entirity and then get back to us. The traditions He's speaking of (and He even descibes some) are ones which go beyond or around the commands of God.

Joe

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: GtPrOjEcTX

Originally posted by: Fritzo
*sigh*

When on the OT forums, NEVER discuss:

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. The Great Pumpkin

I'm quite puzzled why you have been involved in some conversation in this thread then

Just tryin' to defuse the situation a bit. People are starting to overreact...

 

[Rio Rebel]

Overreacting is a prerequisite to membership here. Apparently the only subject you're allowed to intelligently discuss is about computer hardware. Anything else and 90% of our membership turn their minds off and their biases up to full force.

 

[Netopia]

You know Reb... at least in the "old days" even though it would get HEATED... the majority of the people around were trying to "think" about the issues being discussed.

BTW... good to see you.

Joe

 

[Rio Rebel]

Good to see you, too, Joe. Funny how this whole OT forum is a result of our original debate.

Seems like every time this subject gets mentioned, the respect level gets smaller and smaller. It's sad.

 

[plastick]

*rolls eyes*

 

[Beau]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
Catholics are Christians , Mormons are probably more in question.

Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ) are no more in question than any other sect that considers itself christian.

 

[plastick]

Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ) are no more in question than any other sect that considers itself christian.

How so? They don't believe the same things as Christians. They don't read the same bible. I don't even think they center on Jesus. I may be wrong though.

 

[DougK62]

Originally posted by: plastick

Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ) are no more in question than any other sect that considers itself christian.

How so? They don't believe the same things as Christians. They don't read the same bible. I don't even think they center on Jesus. I may be wrong though.

You are wrong. Go read.

 

[Netopia]

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: plastick

Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints ) are no more in question than any other sect that considers itself christian.

How so? They don't believe the same things as Christians. They don't read the same bible. I don't even think they center on Jesus. I may be wrong though.

You are wrong. Go read.

How about "Go start a different thread".

Joe

 

[Rio Rebel]

Let's just kill this one. It's not like we've made any progress.

 

[plastick]

Originally posted by: Rio Rebel
Let's just kill this one. It's not like we've made any progress.

eh... you're probably right. I don't think anyone read any of my on topic replies..