Cease Fire, Hamas Style

[imported_dna]

The Prime Minister said in a recent visit to Iran that Hamas won't recognize Israel.

Do you seriously think that they are aiming for peace, and that these are rogue inidividuals in action, who just happen to have some rockets in the fridge?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: yllus
While my ultimate empathy lies with the Israelis who take the brunt of the fractured/nonexistent command and control structure of Hamas, realistically they cannot as an organization ensure that no rocket attacks will take place. Hopefully some good intelligence can be employed to determine whether this is an effort being winked at by the leadership of Hamas, so that Israel can then take whatever actions they feel are necessary.

I think they could if they really wanted to. They control the countryside, they know who sells the weapons. They know when they arrive and from where.

Our govt doesnt seem to have a problem stopping rockets from falling into the hands of para military groups within our country, I dont see why Hamas cant do the same. But I think as we all know, they dont want to stop it. They want to provoke a response from Israel then cry to the world they punched the biggest kid in class and the biggest kid punched back.

ahhhhhhhhhh now I understand you

you think the palestinian gov has the same resources as the US

I think you misunderstand, as usual.

"Our govt doesnt seem to have a problem stopping rockets from falling into the hands of para military groups within our country, I dont see why Hamas cant do the same."
whats to misunderstand?

 

[imported_dna]

Give it up, Czar -- even the Taliban managed to enforce their rules without an air force and armored divisions; when they were in charge, nobody dared to grow any opium poppy.

Hamas and Fatah have a very useful method of discouraging people from taking certain actions, like in the case of people accused of collaborating with Israel: they get shot, dragged in the streets, and then hanged for display (link). Do this to one of the "rogue" individuals, and the problem will be solved.

So, like Genx87 said: if they really wanted to, they could do it.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: yllus
While my ultimate empathy lies with the Israelis who take the brunt of the fractured/nonexistent command and control structure of Hamas, realistically they cannot as an organization ensure that no rocket attacks will take place. Hopefully some good intelligence can be employed to determine whether this is an effort being winked at by the leadership of Hamas, so that Israel can then take whatever actions they feel are necessary.

I think they could if they really wanted to. They control the countryside, they know who sells the weapons. They know when they arrive and from where.

Our govt doesnt seem to have a problem stopping rockets from falling into the hands of para military groups within our country, I dont see why Hamas cant do the same. But I think as we all know, they dont want to stop it. They want to provoke a response from Israel then cry to the world they punched the biggest kid in class and the biggest kid punched back.

Israel has a habbit of attacking hamas's leaders and therefor it is an organization with little leadership/control.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: dna
Give it up, Czar -- even the Taliban managed to enforce their rules without an air force and armored divisions; when they were in charge, nobody dared to grow any opium poppy.

Hamas and Fatah have a very useful method of discouraging people from taking certain actions, like in the case of people accused of collaborating with Israel: they get shot, dragged in the streets, and then hanged for display (link). Do this to one of the "rogue" individuals, and the problem will be solved.

So, like Genx87 said: if they really wanted to, they could do it.

wow you two are really showing just how delusional you are of the situation

using "look the USA can do it so why cant the palestinians do it?" and "look the taliban could do it so why cant the palestinians do it?" is not exactly showing any hint of reason

 

[imported_dna]

I gave you a simple example of how they keep people in check, and how others managed just fine with AK-47s and no more.

I'm still waiting for you to actually articulate a counter-argument, instead of resorting to ad hominem.

 

[Jhhnn]

How lame, dna. The Taliban never eliminated poppy cultivation in Afghanistan, they merely reduced it to a low level. Much the same could be said for Hamas' efforts at a ceasefire, but that wouldn't suit the purpose of demonizing the Pals, now would it?

 

[imported_dna]

Lame indeed, Jhhnn -- especially when considering how tiny the Gaza strip is in comparison to Afghanistan.

Perhaps if they cut down on the tunnel digging, and weapon smuggling activities, they might be able to catch these (phantom) rogue individuals.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: yllus
While my ultimate empathy lies with the Israelis who take the brunt of the fractured/nonexistent command and control structure of Hamas, realistically they cannot as an organization ensure that no rocket attacks will take place. Hopefully some good intelligence can be employed to determine whether this is an effort being winked at by the leadership of Hamas, so that Israel can then take whatever actions they feel are necessary.

I think they could if they really wanted to. They control the countryside, they know who sells the weapons. They know when they arrive and from where.

Our govt doesnt seem to have a problem stopping rockets from falling into the hands of para military groups within our country, I dont see why Hamas cant do the same. But I think as we all know, they dont want to stop it. They want to provoke a response from Israel then cry to the world they punched the biggest kid in class and the biggest kid punched back.

I think that analogy is a little flawed. The US has a world class police force with training, funding, and popular support from the vast majority of the people to enforce the law. Not only that, but the US doesn't tend to have radical organizations intent on killing everyone in a particular class or group, just random criminals for the most part. How can that be compared to an organization that, while locally powerful, does not have the resources to track down EVERYONE who might want to fire a rocket at Israel, which is a rather large number of people?

 

[Jhhnn]

Indeed, rainsford. Israeli repression has spawned groups so radical that they see Hamas as collaborators.

Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth, too, which introduces a whole very difficult set of parameters for law enforcement- well, what's left of it after repeated israeli attacks and assassinations... First, deny the pals the ability to police their own, then blame them for not doing so...

 

[imported_dna]

Always the victim, aren't they?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Indeed, rainsford. Israeli repression has spawned groups so radical that they see Hamas as collaborators.

Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth, too, which introduces a whole very difficult set of parameters for law enforcement- well, what's left of it after repeated israeli attacks and assassinations... First, deny the pals the ability to police their own, then blame them for not doing so...

That's a very valid point, repeatedly bombing the crap out of someone is hardly a good way to ensure they have the ability to maintain order on their land.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
That's a very valid point, repeatedly bombing the crap out of someone is hardly a good way to ensure they have the ability to maintain order on their land.

The blitz on London would qualify as "bombing the crap out", while targetted killings of militants is a very far cry from that.

I wonder how many rogue individuals were arrested thus far, since, after all, it has been going on for the past several weeks. Anybody care to guess?

 

[Jhhnn]

" Always the victim, aren't they?"

Uhh, no, that's the whole rationalization for the state of Israel, remember?

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Uhh, no, that's the whole rationalization for the state of Israel, remember?

That's something -- comparing centuries of persecution to the art of victimhood, as perfected by the Palestinians. (not to mention a misrepresentation)

If the Jews had the same leaders and mentality as the Palestinians developed over the past few decades, I'm sure there'd still be a whole lot of them still living Auschwitz and Dachao, taking handouts from the UN.

*waiting for Jhhnn to pull the "false attribution" card*

 

[Jhhnn]

Heh. You're getting desperate, dna. If the Israelis have their way, the Pals will endure the same hundreds of years of repression, except it'll be in the future, rather than the past. Pals also lack the luxury of being able to escape to elsewhere, unlike the Jews forced out in the diaspora. Modern States and borders have seen to that.

And you typify the whole rationalization that having been repressed in the past, it's now time for the Israelis to do some repressing of their own, holding up the holocaust to silence criticism, as if it constitutes carte blanc to do unto others.

It's the mentality employed by the Nazis to justify their own conduct- having suffered and been denied a just settlement both historically and after WW1, they were entitled to take what they wanted in WW2.

Change the nouns and the dates, and you'd make a fine apologist for the Nazis... There's no difference in the mentality behind the "Jewish State" and the "Aryan Nation", although I admit that the former has better PR, and haven't yet resorted to a "Final Solution". Not that it hasn't crossed the minds of many, or that they lack the resolve to implement such, but rather that the consequences would be unacceptable.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: yllus
While my ultimate empathy lies with the Israelis who take the brunt of the fractured/nonexistent command and control structure of Hamas, realistically they cannot as an organization ensure that no rocket attacks will take place. Hopefully some good intelligence can be employed to determine whether this is an effort being winked at by the leadership of Hamas, so that Israel can then take whatever actions they feel are necessary.

I think they could if they really wanted to. They control the countryside, they know who sells the weapons. They know when they arrive and from where.

Our govt doesnt seem to have a problem stopping rockets from falling into the hands of para military groups within our country, I dont see why Hamas cant do the same. But I think as we all know, they dont want to stop it. They want to provoke a response from Israel then cry to the world they punched the biggest kid in class and the biggest kid punched back.

I think that analogy is a little flawed. The US has a world class police force with training, funding, and popular support from the vast majority of the people to enforce the law. Not only that, but the US doesn't tend to have radical organizations intent on killing everyone in a particular class or group, just random criminals for the most part. How can that be compared to an organization that, while locally powerful, does not have the resources to track down EVERYONE who might want to fire a rocket at Israel, which is a rather large number of people?

It may have been a poor analogy but my stance is the same. If Hamas was serious about stopping these people they could. Hamas has how many square miles to control?

But they dont and never have. This excuse about random people firing rockets into Israel is icing on the cake because it gives them the ability to distance themselves.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It's the mentality employed by the Nazis to justify their own conduct- having suffered and been denied a just settlement both historically and after WW1, they were entitled to take what they wanted in WW2.

So, I suppose this is an attempt at a diversion from the subject at hand, which is Hamas's unwillingness to negotiate a peaceful solution. Nevertheless, I'll reply to your nonsense.

Talk all you want about dates, nouns, Nazi Germany, and Final Solutions, but as hard as you try to spin it, all facts work against your arguments: the ones brainwashing, and inciting hate are part of the Arab society; they are the ones advocating genocide, and they are the one adopting Nazi like tactics in ensuring that the the next generation is properly brainwashed.

In contrast, Israel is a democracy, where stating your opinion won't get you beaten up by a bunch of militants, or executed and put on public display. In fact, there are Israelis that openly speak in favor of the Palestinians. I'd like you to show me who's speaking in favor of Israel on the Palestinian side.