Check out this thread

[Curley]

New game code makes ATI cards run faster.

This is the kind of crap that starts flame wars and deceit. A simple code change by an ATI staff member makes DOOM run 40% faster without hurting the Nvidia performance.

When ID controlled the benchmarks before DOOM3 was released, I smelled a rat.

How many bought Nvidia cards instead of ATI cards when the ATI card will do the same or better.

The developers do what thier superiors tell him to do.



Don't flame me, read the link and flame the source.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I honestly cannot believe this. This is far too underhanded and dirty to be true.

 

[reallyscrued]

IMPOSSIBLE! ah those canadian got some tricks up their sleeves eh? so now its ice skating....and 3d accelleration!

 

[Regs]

I want to wait for Id's response. If its vague, you'll know.

 

[ronnn]

I would rather flame curley than believe that a trusted game developer would deliberately slow down a game for half of his potential sales. But I will admit I am wrong if a patch is later released that dramatically speeds up ATI cards. :beer:

 

[Curley]

I'll flame myself if this is false. I really hope it is. This would have long reaching implications as bad as insider trading as far as I'm concerned. To reduce sales of a certain product through manipulation is only going to hurt us, the consumer. They should have released the game to legitimate sites to do benchmarking rather than have ID "control" the software and show that NVIDIA blows ATI away.

It may be the other way around with ATI and Valve Software with the Half Life 2 benchmarks. Who knows? But it should be investigated and stopped now.

What do we have to do as consumers? Buy one of each and make our own determination or hack the game codes to get the performance $500.00 video cards are supposed to give us.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: ronnn
I would rather flame curley than believe that a trusted game developer would deliberately slow down a game for half of his potential sales. But I will admit I am wrong if a patch is later released that dramatically speeds up ATI cards. :beer:

Yeah a patch might be relased but only if ID pleads ignorance. If they don't they open themselves up to a suit.

Either way if this is true then they just got caught with their pants down around their anckles.

 

[Megatomic]

Wow, maybe an official patch from id will be released by the time I get Doom3. I'd love for the performance of Doom3 to be 10% higher on my 9800 Pro. I won't have to upgrade to run with high quality settings and still be able to get decent fps.

I just hope this doesn't turn out to be another huge scandal complete with intarweb drama.

 

[Ackmed]

You people really need to read the thread BEFORE replying.

 

[OnEMoReTrY]

I have been following the thread... It is true many users showing comparison screenshots getting 40% faster with the FINAL product. Located on page 15 or 16. John Carmack has already responded to the author in a series of emails adding comments and suggestions. Yes this is the real deal.

 

[OnEMoReTrY]

Btw he is going to be posting the emails because he received permission from JC to do so.

 

[SneakyStuff]

Well, I already had a 5700u, so I don't care I hope the same things happening for HL2! :roll:

 

[Kobra]

Funny, towards the end of the thread they point out that 9800's cooling solution is not good, and 25% of the chips have some defect.

Sheesh, I know that one first hand.. But let loose the ATI fanboys like rabid dogs, and away they go!

 

[Insomniak]

Until I see what Carmack has to say, all bets are off IMO.

 

[Acanthus]

Theres IQ loss, its discussed all over that thread.

 

[Viper96720]

It's not ID's fault ATI's OGL performance is lacking behind Nvidia. I'm lucky if I get 30fps using a 9500Pro.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
Theres IQ loss, its discussed all over that thread.

IQ loss due to the fact that it is an incomplete fix. The only ones who can truly fix it with no IQ loss is ID. It has been discussed in that thread.

 

[Kobra]

I pointed out a flaw with 9800's months and months ago that can cause 9800 overheating a large portion of their cards... Theres a metal retaining border around the GPU, during manufacturing, this can be placed slighting crooked on the board - which seems to happen a good majority of the time.. When this happens, the heatsink and fan don't seat tightly enough on the 9800's, and causes overheating because 9800's already run hot.

This problem is compounded because of the poor heatsink and fan on the 9800. Result is artifacts, tearing, overheating, crashing and lockups. I harped on this problem with ATI for months, RMA'd 2 cards, and both had the same problem.. I'm RMA'ing my last 9800Pro to them this week, then throwing it up on Ebay to try and recover some of my losses from those bastards.

 

[Leon]

1. Most people reporting meager 3fps increase.
2. It not mathematically equivalent, and causes artifacts.

At this point, it is nothing more than hack, similar to other performance enhancing hacks out there. Carmack could have left the dedicated NV30/NV40 codepath, as well as special path for ATI, but he decided to have standard ARB2 path as a compromise. Sorry ATI conspiracy theorists...

Leon

 

[Schadenfroh]

most of the people in that thread report gains of like 4 FPS, that doesnt even come close to 40%, well, maybe if you have less than 10 FPS

 

[Manzelle]

Originally posted by: Kobra
Funny, towards the end of the thread they point out that 9800's cooling solution is not good, and 25% of the chips have some defect.

Sheesh, I know that one first hand.. But let loose the ATI fanboys like rabid dogs, and away they go!

I do not see this anywhere in the thread...

 

[OnEMoReTrY]

I'm so sick of you guys talking about IQ loss and causing artifacts, if you would read the entire thread. There is a final version somewhere around page 16 that has been tested from VARIOUS people with NO artifacts or IQ loss k? And Carmack has already commented on it geeze read the thread.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: Kobra
Christ, here comes the ATI fanboys again..

Remember people, Nvidia6800's as a rule are performing better in most all newer games, not just Doom3 - considering Doom3 has a SM3.0 based engine, and umm, ATI doesn't support SM3.0 i'd certainly expect it to not perform as good... So before we jump to conclusions, lets get some facts from people OTHER than the ATI fanboys.

Uh... WTF? You do understand that SM3 is purely related to DirectX and Direct3D, NOT OpenGL. I wouldn't start calling fanboi on anyone cause you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by: Curley
The game was coded to purposely make ATI cards run slower.

This is the kind of crap that starts flame wars and deceit. A simple code change by an ATI staff member makes DOOM run 40% faster without hurting the Nvidia performance.

When ID controlled the benchmarks before DOOM3 was released, I smelled a rat.

How many bought Nvidia cards instead of ATI cards when the ATI card will do the same or better.

Carmak does what his superiors tell him to do.

Don't flame me, read the link and flame the source.

Did you even bother to read through the first 4 of 5 pages of that thread? Out of the whole, most people were seeing ~%10 increase, a few were getting very good results. However, some were also noticing visual artifacts and discrepencies. This "patch" could very well be on to something, but it looks like there was a reason that it was coded the way it was. Who'd of thought that ? :roll:

 

[Curley]

Originally posted by: OnEMoReTrY
I'm so sick of you guys talking about IQ loss and causing artifacts, if you would read the entire thread. There is a final version somewhere around page 16 that has been tested from VARIOUS people with NO artifacts or IQ loss k? And Carmack has already commented on it geeze read the thread.

I'm running a Nvidia 6800GT.

I find that most people having trouble with DOOM3 and artifacts are forcing a higher refresh rate than 60FPS.

 

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by: Curley
The game was coded to purposely make ATI cards run slower.

This is the kind of crap that starts flame wars and deceit. A simple code change by an ATI staff member makes DOOM run 40% faster without hurting the Nvidia performance.

When ID controlled the benchmarks before DOOM3 was released, I smelled a rat.

How many bought Nvidia cards instead of ATI cards when the ATI card will do the same or better.

Carmak does what his superiors tell him to do.

Don't flame me, read the link and flame the source.

Hmm, I read the "source," and it talks about a tweak to improve performance. It does not, however, strongly imply deliberate sabatage on the part of Carmack. That implication was all yours. Therefore, sorry, you're quite flamable for what you ADDED to the source info.