Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
Were they BEFORE we bombed the fvck out of that place?
Your point? They are there now.
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Originally posted by: Stunt
lol @ people arguing the same point :laugh:
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Remove the Foreign Occupiers.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Remove the Foreign Occupiers.
Than you have a genocide, so that is not an option. We are now back at square 1.
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Remove the Foreign Occupiers.
Than you have a genocide, so that is not an option. We are now back at square 1.
Maybe, maybe not. Both(or All) sides seem well armed, you'll likely end up in Civil War, I kinda doubt full scale Genocide(other than the current Death Squad activities) can occur.
The issue remains: As long as the US/Coalition remains in Iraq, they will be attacked.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Remove the Foreign Occupiers.
Than you have a genocide, so that is not an option. We are now back at square 1.
Maybe, maybe not. Both(or All) sides seem well armed, you'll likely end up in Civil War, I kinda doubt full scale Genocide(other than the current Death Squad activities) can occur.
The issue remains: As long as the US/Coalition remains in Iraq, they will be attacked.
As long as there are sitting there playing a politically correct war yes. The administration needs to let the army be an army, not a diplomat.
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: sandorski
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
The Iraqi Insurgency is not the "Enemy". Never was prior to its' existance and still isn't.
Of course not, they work side by side US marines to help bring peace to Iraq.
Religious extremism would be a better enemy. Including Judaism, Muslim and Christian extremism. For right now though, as a physical enemy, the insurgency is an enemy that goes after American citizens.
They are a Self Created Enemy attacking a foreign occupation. They are of no consequence to US Territorial Security and not the reason the WoT was started. Al Queda is the Enemy.
Do you believe that Al Queda is not involved in any action whatsoever in Iraq?
It's Moot. They have some part inn what's going on in Iraq, but very little and the only reason any are there is to create havoc. Most of those causing problems for US/Coalition Forces have no direct connections to Al Queda. Afghanistan and Pakistan is where Al Queda has a large presence.
It is not moot. Your mindset was the insurgency was not the enemy. al Queda was. If Al Queda is not operating in the insurgency than they are the enemy. Al Queda is also a Islamic extremist organization. Any organizations that take up there call of Jihad on the US, or to attack the US and its allies are now a part of the enemy.
The Insurgency is not fighting for Al Queda and couldn't care less about Al Queda. They fight for their Country or more accurately their vision for the future of their Country.
The problem it comes back to though, is even though the insurgency in Iraq is divided in its elements and goals. A real insurgency fighting for liberation, one fighting for Jihad, one of Mercenaries ect. They have a common goal of killing Americans. That makes them one enemy. There ideals and long term objectives might change from group to group, city to city, block to block but in the end there common enemy is America. That makes them all an enemy.
Remove the Foreign Occupiers.
Than you have a genocide, so that is not an option. We are now back at square 1.
Maybe, maybe not. Both(or All) sides seem well armed, you'll likely end up in Civil War, I kinda doubt full scale Genocide(other than the current Death Squad activities) can occur.
The issue remains: As long as the US/Coalition remains in Iraq, they will be attacked.
As long as there are sitting there playing a politically correct war yes. The administration needs to let the army be an army, not a diplomat.
That doesn't even mean anything.
Originally posted by: bossanov
I can't help thinking that all we are fighting for now is Bush's legacy.
B.
I am disgusted by comments that pigeon hole one issue into an ideology involving thousands of issues. This mindset only encourages division and argument instead of constructive dialogue. :thumbsdown:Originally posted by: umbrella39
Someone said this earlier today and I think it should go into the Sig of every thinking member of this forum, I will paraphrase as I don't remember the exact wording:
This is no longer about Left and Right, it is about smart vs. stupid. Thankfully, the number of people who still fit into the stupid category are shrinking every day. However, there will still be those who will die stupid, may as well, they lived their lives that way.
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't quite understand this kind of talk, and not just because of the cavalier way the Vice President is talking about the deaths of US service men and women. You hear this sort of reasoning a lot, that we need to win in Iraq so we don't show weakness to our enemies. In fact, at this point this theory seems to drown out almost all other discussion. Is foreign policy REALLY just an expensive and deadly way to show everyone how big our collective dick is? Not only do I question how valuable it is to be seen this way on the international stage, but I wonder if we're really projecting the image we think we're projecting. Maybe it's just me, but the people I know who act like this look weak, not strong.
Numerous Islamic websites with interviews with terrorists have shown repeatedly that they will keep fighting because the US eventually looses its stomach for war. When this happens they retreat and leave the country to them. The insurgency knows they cannot beat the US, it will never happen. The thing is that they do not have too, they just need to make the people back home disgusted with the war to win.
You can ignore the interviews until I find them again. I use to have them saved, but I can't find the links right now. I am sure others here have seen them though.
Or America's reputation...Originally posted by: bossanov
I can't help thinking that all we are fighting for now is Bush's legacy.
B.