China's concrete usage; whoa!

[bradly1101]

This was an interesting tidbit on tonight's Newshour. Oh my dear god! A nation on the rise, or what?

(c) PBS

 

[LTC8K6]

To build empty cities?

 

[Ns1]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.weirdasianews.com/2010/02/05/shanghai-wonderbridge-trash-collapses/

 

[alcoholbob]

I wouldn't consider that surprising consider US manufacturing peaked in the 1920s (45% of all jobs) and has been declining linearly since then (now 4% of all jobs).

America went through what China is going through now from the 1860s to the 1910s. 90% of the 20th century was America de-industralizing, whereas China is going the other direction.

 

[Beer4Me]

Nope, they just have a crap ton of land and people, so logically this makes sense. Also, the United States and many other 1st world countries pump a lot of money into China so that helps. I'd like to see some pollutant facts, and I bet China is responsible for at least 1/3 of world output of pollutants. My wife is Chinese, and she'll tell you, it's a dirty, dirty country.

 

[DesiPower]

and that is why earth's axis is getting wobbly

 

[balloonshark]

and that is why earth's axis is getting wobbly

Not true. We have Trump's ego for a counter balance

 

[BoomerD]

Not true. We have Trump's ego for a counter balance

But that's all hot air...no mass found.

 

[bradly1101]

Not true. We have Trump's ego for a counter balance

:biggrin:

I'm preparing for the coming Trumpian dystopia by stocking up on orange cotton candy!

 

[gophertron]

I saw this statistic before...I have trouble believing it. We built a lot of damned freeways in the 20th century. I know China has done so too, as well as a lot of cities from the ground up. But still, I'd like to see some more details to really believe it.

 

[Anonemous]

To build empty cities?

Yep. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...chinas-ghost-cities/#2715e4857a0b34f4e7bc751b

 

[Ns1]

They're also pretty good at building giant fucking dams made out of cement and stuff

 

[skyking]

But that's all hot air...no mass found.

It is theorhetorical mass.

 

[clamum]

I saw this statistic before...I have trouble believing it. We built a lot of damned freeways in the 20th century. I know China has done so too, as well as a lot of cities from the ground up. But still, I'd like to see some more details to really believe it.

Yeah to me it's so incredible that it's a bit hard to believe. I don't think it's necessarily false, but I'd like more details too.

 

[kage69]

They're also pretty good at building giant fucking dams made out of cement and stuff

...in an area prone to earthquakes, with a design that other countries know from experience doesn't work with high sediment rivers, and all of it with hundreds of millions of people living in it's shadow. That sound "pretty good" to you?

It's not a matter of if the 3 Gorges Dam becomes a disaster of unprecedented scale, but when. Even if they don't use shitty Russian cement they are still screwed, doubly so if they start a war with anyone.

 

[Imp]

Ordos.

http://content.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1975397_2094492,00.html

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

They built an elevated highway in 2013 here, it loops around the city at around 100 feet in the air. I think the total distance is 30km. They built that in 1 year. 3 lanes in either direction, bus platform/stations every 1km.

That doesn't include all of the Metro construction going on our the huge apartment complexes all over the city. They probably have 100-200x 30 story apartment buildings under construction at any time in the city, and they take about 1 year to build.

One other thing, at least in Chengdu - everything you see above ground, has about as much built under ground. Just about every commercial building here has 5 or 6 floors underground (i think partly to help anchor it into the bedrock, this area is prone to 8.0 earthquakes) and the apartment building complexes are really just one massive building with several towers sticking up.

They dig a massive ditch for about 3 or 4 city blocks and maybe 50-100m deep, and then fill it in with parking and other stuff, then start building stuff on top.

World largest building (by area)

Construction near my apartment on the edge of the city

One of about 5 malls that opened in the city in 2015

A fake European town that they built for no reason except to take wedding photos

Tianfu Software Park - it was rice fields 10 years ago

A tiny fraction of the apartments being built (taken in March 2014, these are all finished and open now)

China blew past America years ago, it's just taking so long for the data to finally come in that the US realizes that. China also has 30 trillion in debt though, and they're not slowing down on their spending. They basically owe on everything they're building. So the real question is, what happens when they default on it?

 

[Newbian]

I hope those pictures of the malls were taken when they were closed and only employees in the pictures otherwise it looks like they have been abandoned already.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

One was just opened, the other was about to close. You want me to go get pictures of malls in the US that are also abandoned?

The media is portraying the exceptions as the norm. Ordos is the most extreme exception and that city still has a lot of people living there.

 

[CPA]

One was just opened, the other was about to close. You want me to go get pictures of malls in the US that are also abandoned?

The media is portraying the exceptions as the norm. Ordos is the most extreme exception and that city still has a lot of people living there.

That's all well and good, but you cannot deny that the Chinese build ghost cities.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

That's all well and good, but you cannot deny that the Chinese build ghost cities.

If you consider St Louis and Detroit to be ghost cities, then by that definition no I can't deny it. But Ordos is almost 2 million people, and its one of the richest cities in China so of course they're going to overbuild. It's in the middle of nowhere and the government is desperate to get people into less populated areas.

 

[Ken g6]

I heard that, for a long time, the Chinese people weren't allowed to invest in much except real estate. So they built lots of apartments that are never occupied; just bought as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. "investment homes".

So is that really how many people live there? Or just how many own living spaces there?

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

I heard that, for a long time, the Chinese people weren't allowed to invest in much except real estate. So they built lots of apartments that are never occupied; just bought as 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc. "investment homes".

So is that really how many people live there? Or just how many own living spaces there?

I haven't heard that they weren't allowed to but I have heard it was considered the best investment. A few anecdotes I've heard but not sure the validity:

Many farmers who "sell" their land for development aren't paid, they're given several apartments instead when the new developments are completed. I guess they are usually happy because they can rent these places out and don't have to work, or maybe they can sell them. Either way I see a lot of (people who appear to be) former farmers driving Audi's and BMW's.

The price of housing is rising dramatically, so for wealthier people its a much better investment to buy a house than anything else. However the government raised taxes quite a bit if you own more than 2 houses, so I think that trend has kind of died.

Many of my coworkers live with their parents, but this is for practical reasons. Often their parents own another house (or two or three) but they have a kid and the grandparents play a huge part in raising children here. Usually by the time the kids are grown up the grandparents need to be taken care of, so since those extra houses aren't needed they are rented out.

Where I live, their are lots of buildings under construction or sitting empty. I am not sure how long it will take to fill because they are building houses faster than jobs are being created, I think this is where the impression of the ghost towns comes from. Everyone is in a rush to get the young people to move to their city so they're trying to build as much as they can, but if they don't get the jobs to come here then they're doomed. Chengdu was smart and invested heavily in tech, automobiles, and research. It's one of the few places in China that is still growing economically at a rapid pace. The smaller cities around Sichuan are kind of dead in the water as anyone with a college degree is coming here or Chongqing. Those cities have a lot of buildings half constructed on the edge of town, and when you go there it seems kind of empty. Alot of people live there but its usually old people who don't work or don't have much money.

 

[IronWing]

Where I live, their are lots of buildings under construction or sitting empty. I am not sure how long it will take to fill because they are building houses faster than jobs are being created, I think this is where the impression of the ghost towns comes from. Everyone is in a rush to get the young people to move to their city so they're trying to build as much as they can, but if they don't get the jobs to come here then they're doomed. Chengdu was smart and invested heavily in tech, automobiles, and research. It's one of the few places in China that is still growing economically at a rapid pace. The smaller cities around Sichuan are kind of dead in the water as anyone with a college degree is coming here or Chongqing. Those cities have a lot of buildings half constructed on the edge of town, and when you go there it seems kind of empty. Alot of people live there but its usually old people who don't work or don't have much money.

Sounds like my fair city where the politicians and developers think the jobs will magically appear if we build enough housing. In my neighborhood the builders finally sold the back stock from the 2000-2006 housing bubble (some of the houses built in 2003 finally sold this year) and are building the next bubble as fast as they can. Construction methods are even worse this time around so I pity the fools that buy these houses.

 

[IntoxicatedPuma]

Sounds like my fair city where the politicians and developers think the jobs will magically appear if we build enough housing. In my neighborhood the builders finally sold the back stock from the 2000-2006 housing bubble (some of the houses built in 2003 finally sold this year) and are building the next bubble as fast as they can. Construction methods are even worse this time around so I pity the fools that buy these houses.

About the same here...the construction methods seem sound enough (i think the 2008 and 2013 earthquake put a stop to the shoddy methods) but the interior of builds are atrocious. Stuff that is a few years old looks 15-20 years old. Some of the contractors build in places that make no sense, go bankrupt, and the local government takes over the project.