Just to chime in....$20k is a great price point for a lightly used mid to upper level family car. You got your head on right so I doubt any decision will be a bad one
Why not have her test all 3 and choose the one that she likes best? Most cars these days are pretty reliable, but any manufacturer can still produce a lemon.
Personally, i just can't get past the styling of the Soul. Just seems to trying too hard to be cute and cool, although my daughter rented one for a trip and loved it.
The corolla would be my choice, mainly for the safety suite,but if you need a hatchback, that is out.
Yea, just saw the link for that. Nice to see hatchbacks making a comeback of sorts. I really like the safety features of the corolla, and the reliability, but they are just so bland.There is a Corolla hatchback starting for 2018. I would also point out the Toyota C-HR.
A used Lexus CT is also a really nice car for the money.
Toyota Yaris. Runs forever on ancient technology (still has a 4spd auto). Lacks all power, creaky and cheap. But dead reliable. Only downfall is the fact they don’t have idler pulleys so eventually you get the squeal of doom after about 50K Miles that requires a new belt. Good room in them though.
I rented a yaris once. easily the worst car i've ever driven. it was like a 2010 yaris, but cars built in the 90s were probably better.
i'd suggest just buying a prius C ifyou are spending $20k, hybrids stress the engines out even less so they can easily go 200k miles, saves gas so if gas becomes $7 a gallon in 10 years etc....
Almost any modern engine will go 200k miles if well maintained, barring simple bad luck. A hybrid *may* stress the gasoline engine less, but dont forget one has an electric engine, all the regenerative braking hardware, and a battery pack that will eventually need replacement.I rented a yaris once. easily the worst car i've ever driven. it was like a 2010 yaris, but cars built in the 90s were probably better.
i'd suggest just buying a prius C ifyou are spending $20k, hybrids stress the engines out even less so they can easily go 200k miles, saves gas so if gas becomes $7 a gallon in 10 years etc....
Yea, I like the Optima a lot, although I have mixed feelings at best about hybrids. Just not sure the gas savings is worth the extra cost and complexity.I dont have the Kia Soul, but I have the Kia Optima Hybrid 2013, and I have 62k miles on it, bought it brand new, and honestly I have had ZERO issues... All TSB's have been taken care of, and nothing major has happened *knock on wood*. Besides your normal wear and tear , brakes, tires, etc... if you keep up with maintenance I do all of mine myself, except the oil change and tire rotations, because the dealership gave that to me for free...
The Cabin and Air Filter they charge 35-50 bucks to do it, when it literally costs 10 bucks to do it yourself and takes 5 minutes to do.
I can't speak about the other cars you are looking at because I have never owned either.
Almost any modern engine will go 200k miles if well maintained, barring simple bad luck. A hybrid *may* stress the gasoline engine less, but dont forget one has an electric engine, all the regenerative braking hardware, and a battery pack that will eventually need replacement.
Well, I wont argue with you about overall reliability of hybrids. I simply dont have enough information overall. However, where did you get that reliability chart, and what is the x axis? It certainly seems questionable and has a lot of old/discontinued models. A Cavilair and Sunfire equal in reliability to a Prelude and Mazda 3, and better than a Subaru imprezza? Certainly does not match any reliability data I have ever seen before. Anecdotally, I had a Sunfire, and it ate 3 head gaskets in 40,000 miles. They and the Cavilair (same engine) were notorious for that problem. Fortunately, it died a spectacular death being sideswiped by a truck (no one was injured) so I was able to get rid of it without taking a beating financially."All the regenerative braking hardware" is basically just an electric motor. Electric motors are simple and have basically no parts that fail, other than bearings. Beyond that, you have an inverter and a battery, and everything else is controlled by the car's computer. A Prius (or Volt) transmission is also much more simple than that of a conventional automatic, and for that reason they're more reliable.
There are no clutches, no torque converters, no friction parts, just a ring and a few cogs. The engine is connected to the center input shaft, the electric motor is connected to the ring gear, and the car's speed is varied by spinning the electric motor faster or slower (or backward) to change the ratio between gas engine and the wheels.
So, while hybrids have the addition of extremely reliable and simple electric motor and inverter, they also have vastly more simple and reliable transmissions - and from my experience, a failed transmission is usually what sends a car to a junkyard. Their smaller engines are stressed less. Batteries do fail, but most Prius batteries last 15+ years and premature failures often just require replacing one cell (of around 20), which the computer can identify for you, and even if you need to swap the whole thing, it's cheaper than an engine and can be replaced by virtually anyone in their driveway. Battery degradation also isn't really an issue with hybrids since it doesn't determine their travel range.
Of course, you could look at the actual reliability numbers:
Source
Long-Term Quality Index – 1.2 Million Used Cars Inspected From 1993 To Today
Dashboard Light is our attempt to offer free information about the long-term reliability of vehicles, forever.
When you search for the long-term reliability of any used car at Dashboard Light, you’re looking at the collective results of over a million vehicles that have been independently inspected by ASE certified mechanics and professional car buyers.
Our study, now called the Long-Term Quality Index, is over four years old and has been designed to focus specifically on those older vehicles that fall off the radar as vehicles age.
Unlike J.D. Power, which focuses their studies on the earliest portions of a vehicles life, and Consumer Reports, which regulates its study to surveys filled out by owners of late model vehicles, LTQI has been designed to assess the long-term reliability of used cars from the point they are three years old to the end of its life cycle.
Every vehicle receives a Quality Index Rating (QIR) that looks like this:
SUZUKI GRAND VITARA
Vehicle count: 879
WHAT IS QIR?
The Quality Index Rating (QIR) offers an overall score based on the frequency of powertrain issues, the mileage distribution of when those issues take place, and the vehicle age at the time of trade-in. You can think of it as a weighted average where we look at a number of factors for a given vehicle model, and then get a single value indicating it’s overall long-term reliability.
WHAT IS A GOOD QIR SCORE?
An average QIR score for a vehicle model is just under 50 due to 0 representing the bottom, with a range of possible scores from 0-100. Most vehicle models fall into the 30-70 score range, with those above 70 being quite reliable in general, while those below 30 being generally quite poor in terms of reliability.
WHAT IS A “POWERTRAIN ISSUE”?
Powertrain issues are defects that exist with either the engine or transmission. These defects are severe enough to impact the operation of the vehicle. In this example, out of the 879 Grand Vitaras that have been traded-in, 4.3% had transmission issues while 9.56% had engine issues. A few vehicles had both issues – however we don’t double-count defects if they happen with the same vehicle. This is how ‘Powertrain Issues’, accurately represents the percentage of vehicles that had either one or both of these issues.
DO YOU TRACK OTHER ISSUES, LIKE THE ELECTRICAL OR A/C SYSTEMS?
No. At the moment our primary focus is on the major mechanical components of the powertrain, as quality and reliability issues with these components have the greatest impact on a vehicle owners ability to keep their car. From a quality perspective, we’re looking at that exact point when an owner has decided that the vehicle they bought at a retail price is now worth only a trade-in wholesale price, and why they made the decision to trade the vehicle in.
WHERE DOES YOUR DATA COME FROM?
Our data is provided by a partnership with a national network of used car auctions, which allows us to get information on vehicles from all across the country with uniform reporting standards.
SO THE DATA IS FROM USED CAR AUCTIONS? WHAT IF YOU’RE JUST GETTING CRUMMY VEHICLES THAT PEOPLE DUMP OFF, WON’T THAT SKEW THE DATA?
We add thousands of new vehicles to our database every week, and while it’s certainly possible that someone could send a “lemon” to auction, the volume of vehicles being processed, and the standardized methods used to assess the vehicles, helps us protect against one or two bad owners throwing off our numbers.
SO WHAT! QUALITY ISN’T EVERYTHING!
You’re right. Quality is just one of many ingredients, and sometimes an owner will get tired of a car well before it wears out. That’s why this study has also been designed to focus squarely at the age and mileage points at which the owner decides to get another vehicle. We want to offer you a long-term understanding of what the ownership experience will be like for that model as it ages over time.
In this example you can clearly see that the Suzuki Grand Vitara gets traded-in at a lower mileage. There is a big pink hump that is evident from 80,000 to 110,000 miles which shows that the biggest concentration of owners trade this vehicle in before it hits the industry average. When you look at the high engine defect rate, you can conclude that engine issues play a role in this decision.
BUT WHAT ABOUT GOOD YEARS VERSUS BAD YEARS FOR A GIVEN MODEL?
We break down that information as well so you know which model years to avoid.
In this example, which consists of nearly 37,000 Honda Accords, you can clearly see that Hondas experienced worse reliability on average for a long time – in spite of their stellar reputation.
Why did this happen? It turns out that older Hondas suffer from transmission issues. By 2003, when Honda released a brand new Accord, this situation went from extremely common to just average compared to its peers. From that point forward the Accord has remained at or above the industry average when it comes to reliability. You can find the Accords long-term reliability here along with the Camry, Altima, and all midsize cars. The last one is an amazingly long list!
THAT’S NICE TO KNOW, BUT I NEED MORE INFORMATION THAN JUST RELIABILITY
Great. We have partnered with several objective third party sources that perform a similar service that we do when it comes to assessing fuel economy, safety, and reviews.
MORE INFORMATION:
We also highlight enthusiast forums because we believe that these sites provide an extremely valuable service for folks who want to be keepers over the long run. Thanks to feedback from actual owners, enthusiast forums highlight specific weaknesses about a model that won’t be mentioned anywhere else. All of this information should help you get a far better grasp of what it’s really like to own that model, and will help you prepare and overcome whatever challenges come your way.
COOL! SO WHAT DO YOU DRIVE?
Well, Nick owns a Volvo XC70. Steve has been an auto auctioneer, car dealer, and part-owner of an auto auction over the last 17 years. So he has quite literally bought, fixed, sold, and mumbled gibberish at thousands of vehicles. The one brand of vehicle that has given him more joy than most others has been Volvos from the 1980s and 1990s. Unfortunately, he can talk about older Volvos for hours. However, right now his daily driver is a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT that he got for a little less than $6000. No, he definitely won’t keep it.
COOL! SO DO YOU JUST COLLECT ALL THIS DATA?
For our partners, this long-term reliability data helps dealerships figure out which brands and models to buy, and which ones to avoid. Since the last thing a customer wants to see when he trades in a car he or she hates is a newer version of it on the showroom floor. Like all retailers, dealers also don’t want to buy a vehicle that may become a lemon for the owner over the long run. This study helps highlight these rolling money traps for dealers and used car buyers alike.
Want to learn more about what we do? Click here, here and here. Our goal is to make Dashboard Light the one place where you can learn to become the long-term keeper of a great used car, instead of a serial victim of automotive mediocrity.
All the best!
Steven Lang & Nick Lariviere.
Heh, I love how the Chevy Cruze is at the bottom of the reliability list. As a former owner, I can attest to that
Civic is a great choice and would be mine for brand new. But I would go test drive a used Camry (1-2 years old) to compare.
Perfect car for someone coming from a van and its Toyota. Much better safety than any tin can Corolla.
Civic is much nicer than Corolla but Camry is better long-term car with more space. Plus if your on the highway you will appreciate the Camry more.
I don't trust Kia long term reliability but I know some people who buy them and love them.
Good warranties are nice but they are an after-the-fact safety net. More reliable car with good warranty beats less reliable car with great warranty IMO. The point is to not need or seldom as possible need to use warranty.Huh? This post seems more your personal opinion that being backed up by facts. Civic, with the right options is sportier than corolla, but that is its only real advantage. Corolla is certainly no more a "tin can" than civic, and has a very nice suite of standard safety features. Consumer Reoprts rates the Corolla in the top reliability class, while the Civic has slipped to only average. Personally I dont really care for the styling of either car. They are really at opposite ends of the spectrum: Corolla is too bland, and the Civic is to much "boy racer, in your face". The only Civic that looks halfway decent to me is one in black, which masks those hideous, non-functional black cutouts on the rear. I like the Optima, but the Forte not so much. The warranty is better than either Honda or Toyota though.
I would agree that the OP should consider a one or two year old larger car such as the Camry or Optima. One can save quite a bit of money. If the OP has a limit of 20k, I think even a well equipped brand new Civic or Corolla will be pushing that, especially if one adds in all the associated costs like license, sales tax, and various fees.
Good warranties are nice but they are an after-the-fact safety net. More reliable car with good warranty beats less reliable car with great warranty IMO. The point is to not need or seldom as possible need to use warranty.
I've always been a used car buyer but for once my wife would like a new car, she's never owned a new car. A Corolla, if shopped at the right time can be had under $20k quite easily. Not looking for options loaded package, not necessary, just auto trans. Plus we have a trade in vehicle (2004 Sienna).
Having been free of auto payments for nearly 8 yrs, I really hate the idea of payments again so they gotta be low. Buying only what we need. Financing through our credit union.
My brother has a Sonata. Seems like a fine car, he hasn't had any issues I can think of.I agree, a reliable car is more desirable than an unreliable one with a better warranty. However, I think the Optima is at least average, probably better than average, in reliability, and you cant beat a five year bumper to bumper warranty on top of that. I rented a Sonata (same car basically) for a trip, and it was quite nice. You also get a 100k powertrain warranty if purchased new, but unfortunately it does not transfer to a second owner unless the car is CPO. But if your wife likes, (or can live with) the styling and general blandness of the Corolla, it is a great choice.