Christian religious question

[Jugernot]

No, you all have it wrong! When you die, a marble appears in my marble collection. I already have several hundred billion of them, a few billion more won't matter one bit.

Everyone who doesn?t accept the beliefs of another religion goes to hell. So if you don?t believe in the Muslim, Hindu, Christian, etc. religion, you?re going straight to hell. No pass go, no collecting $200!!!

Luckily I?m an Atheist and I get to disappear when I?m dead! It?ll be neat to just not exist!

Btw: Here is another one for you. If a present day person were to say they are a direct conduit to "GOD" and therefore were writing his work in a testament called "The newer testament", he would be called insane and a blasphemer. Yet, over the last few thousand years, a finite few of these insane people who were in direct contact with "GOD" were called profits and wise men. Better yet, their insanity has been published several million times and provides the basis of a religion that billions of people believe and place their ?souls? in its care.

 

[Valhalla1]

no, I don't.

guess that's why I'm trying to figure all this crap out.


one thing that's always bugged me, is that I'm a stout believer in science and evolution. my high school biology teacher seemed to offer a compromise, saying that he believed in God and evolution, saying God used evolution as his tool to create man, and the whole adam and eve thing is just a fable.

but my problem is - if there is a god, where did he come from? and I won't accept "he has just always been hangin' around" as an answer. and how can he create this universe?

but, on the other hand, if there was no god, if the universe expanded during the big bang and life evolved on earth and almost certainly in countless other places, then were did the original matter of the universe come from?

anyway, this is all giving me a headache, and my shift just ended at work so its time to go home and ponder the meaning of life

 

[err]

So, I have a question now. What if you are muslim, or if you are buddhist, or any other religion for that matter. You've been doing good all your life and you've been "promised" to go to heaven according to your religion. Do you still go to hell under christian's rule ?

how can this be ? Are there different heavens ? Different hells ?

This is why I never accepted any religion seriously. They are good to build your morale and help you become a "better" person, but it just doesn;t make sense. Who to believe now? Will all the muslim or other religion go to hell ?

My "funny" feeling is that religion is like earth. There are several continents, several countries and these countries are just trying to make you become their citizens by their promises.

Now, the thing that I hate most is: My g/f is christian and my mom is buddhist. I am nothing. Both ask me to join their religion otherwise I wouldn't meet them in heaven ???

Please enlighten me

eRr

 

[shiner]

Personally I think that there is one God but that he presented himself to the various peoples of the world in a form they could easily understand based on their culture. For the most part all major world religions have the same core of beliefs.

 

[D5]

Valhalla 1, dude, let me try to "clear" things up for you. I am a Christian, as well, so don't be surprised to receive the same answer as my fellow brethren.

First, Man #1, the criminal, the so-called "bad" person in your story, has done wrong to the society, true, and that would not be right in God's eyes. God is merciful and gives foregiveness to those who accept it, accept God. Do you mean what you say when your wife asks you to turn off the TV while you're watching a really good show, say, Superbowl Sunday and you say "OK, Honey.......just wait!" and it's just got to an exciting part of the game?

Of course, usually not. However, if you had a bad day, one night, and felt so bad and missed your wife so much, that you feel like you would do whatever she tells you to do, even turn off the TV? You feel so much like spending so much time with her, you want to be with you forever, that you actually notice your love to your wife?

That's pretty much similar. The person up top, #1, did bad because, at that time, he had nothing to look forward to in his life. No wife, children, family, kids, or future. He just did what he wanted to when he felt like it because......he was a "lost soul". When he noticed God at the end, it was like noticing you loved your wife for the first time in a long time. You've found your destiny and now you feel bad about yourself, if your wife would ever accept you, your attitude toward her, ever again. That's when you make up for what you've missed. Take her out to the movies or cook dinner one day, or other things. That's what this robber does.

Because of the man's love for God, he now finds himself a cruel and bruteless person. What would life be like without mercy? Can you tell me that? Can you imagine a life without forgiveness from your boss, your neighbor, or even your wife? God gives hope for a "second chance" if you really mean you want it, otherwise, there is really no point in giving so. You will not try, like #2. You will be nice to the people, but what is the people without God?

Flesh? Soil? Creation? What are you? You are one of God's children as so are people. As a "child of God", if you respect the other "children", the people, in the "playground", the world, that would be nice and influectial to THEM. However, not respecting the teacher, God being that, would also influence others to do the same and would also be unfair and disrespectful. You could respect others and how they like to be treated and their rules, but disrespecting God, you would be disrespecting His rules and rejecting Him as a part of your life and rejecting His teachings to you, his scriptures, and his text book, the Bible.

How can you find a good life, and "job" in the real world, which is a "place" in Heaven, if you do not pass through school, which is life? Through life is a school on Earth. If you pass, believing God and listening and comprehending His scriptures and Bible and rules(Ten Commmandments) in this "school", you would be ready for the good life when you "get out" of school, graduating it through death.

If you do not comprehend God's teachings in life, this being the so-called "school" I've been talking about, and reject God as being your Lord and creator, you will graduate as a "junkie" with an F- and end up with the "bad life" without "God's education" ending up in the old appartment slums, "Hell". Not a very delightful "graduation", eh?

My answer I can can give you is stick with God and you will not have to worry about person #2. Do this and He will accept you no matter person who you are for ALL people are equal before our God's eyes, looks, attitude, and statue, and all are given the same possible privileges, provided they will use them.

The only thing that sets you apart from all other people in equality is your belief and "education" of that thing called "Christianity". You are unique in that way alone. Build up your faith and you can build up your future...........through Him.


Thank you, and sorry for this LONG conversation!!!! Have a HOLLY, JOLLY Christmas and Happy New Year, dude!!!! God bless...

Thanks...
D5-K1

Reguards

 

[dopcombo]

The answer to life is 42, aint it?

personally, i think it's nice that all these people have a psychological backup they can rely on for help in times of crisis.
Also, i like the way they believe strongly in something and stick their minds to it.
BUT i dun like the fact that they actually refer to some book probably written 2000 years ago as their guide to life.
I also dun like the idea of them choosing certain things to stick to in the book and neglecting others, depending on how things work out. (hey, kinda like economics don't u think? )

Finally. i am glad these people believe in their religion, and that they feel that they have found happiness. However, i can't stand them trying to convert the rest of us. sure, they say its for our happiness, but thank you very much i like it the way i am right now and till there is proof of a god i am not gonna believe in one.

btw, did u guys know that a large percentage of high school graduates from this country actually believed that one gender has one rib less than the other???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[mechBgon]

Uh, where did you extract this from:

but you'd want to see the man who saved your childrens life because he jumped in front of a moving semi truck to knock your kids away and gets killed, who lived a straight arrow life but just never accepted religion, that you'd want to see him burn in hell for eternity?

Hopefully not from my post, 'cause I didn't say that. I don't "want" to see anyone "burn in hell for eternity," and neither does God. Counterpoint: If your "good guy" didn't want to have a relationship with God in this life, what pleasure would he find from being in God's company for eternity anyway? See what I'm saying? He had already made the choice long before saving my children from runaway semi's. (By the way, what does my wife look like? ...haven't met her yet, LOL )

It is an article of Christian faith that people are not perfect, and even your "good guy" is not exempt from that. Or if you're saying he WAS the perfect, sinless man, well then let him take his chances, eh? But that's why Christ has come and become one of us... to pay the price for our imperfection so that "there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." And how do we know that we are in Christ? Read John's letters (1 John and 2 John), which are pretty short. They may help with your question about the "sin-then-repent" idea.

I think you are feeling the same feelings that the elder son expresses in Jesus' parable of The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-ff), saying "but that's not fair!", or the workers who worked hard all day in Jesus' parable of the vineyard in Matthew ch. 20, asking why those who worked for only an hour end up getting paid the same wage as themselves. God's answer in that parable is "Are you envious because I am generous?"

For my thoughts are not like your thoughts, nor my ways like your ways, says the Lord. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my thoughts above your thoughts, and my ways above your ways. I guess you have to trust that God sees a spark of potential in us all, even those we would judge to be like your "bad guy." I work with a Christian brother of mine who is an ex-convict, has killed people, dealt drugs, used drugs, you name it... but he is a new man now, living proof of what grace can do if a man can humble his heart enough to cooperate.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[shiner]

By the time you are presented with proof that there is a God it will be too late for you.

I will not try to push relgion on you but I will pray for you.

 

[D5]

One more thing I forgot to add to this post.

What would be the point of life if you were only given one chance to live life perfectly and after that, it's scrap time? There are no perfect people on Earth, currently, that I know of existing that were manufactured by God and was not His own son, but we, as people, can try to live it as perfect as we could make possible.

We can try. There are two types of people. The "perfect", and the "imperfect". There's just one little "wrong" that can tip the scale between both of them and I don't think it would take much to make "perfect" into "imperfect". That is what makes us equal with each......because we all are very, very common, imperfectness, and were created my A created so common, He is but one.......He is God.

So the next time you think about God, think about how lucky you are that He is not like a selfish "king" who thrives on getting His "jollies" through experimenting with us in bazaar ways or through crushing like roaches like we do for fun. Be glad He is like no other man, for he is perfect, and that is what makes Him His own unique way.

Remember that....

Thanks...
D5

Reguards

 

[Jugernot]

shinerburke, By the time you figure out that he is a myth, it will be too late for you.

I will not try to push atheism, but I do feel bad that you had to waste all those Sundays mornings.

 

[shiner]

Jugernot...

Who will be more disappointed?

The believer that discovers there is no God? Which in your scenairo would not even be possible since when you die you cease to exist in any form thus you would have no knowledge of God's alleged non existance.

or

The non believer who finds out that there is a God but alas it's too late and he/she gets to spend the rest of eternity in hell?

 

[Techno]

God = Perfect?

ROFLPIMP.... that was a good one.... I've never laughed harder at BS like that in my life!

 

[madthumbs]

Scenario #1
If someone finds God it is God's calling if it is sincere and true. God looks at the inward part of man and judges us not by our actions but by our hearts. I don't believe that God loves the wicked, and it states clearly in the Bible that he hated Esau.

Scenario #2
This is a similar scenario as the first one. Again God judges our inward beings, not our outward appearance and is a more capable judge than any human. God calls some of us and puts it in our hearts to seek him, and who is to say someone can't meet him and accept him in the last few moments of life. Consider how fast we dream in relation to real life and what someone could see in their last moments here.

I find it hard to judge who is saved and who isn't. I've attended many churches and found a lot of faith in a god, but not the god of the Bible. There are so many misconceptions being taught and believed that they worship a whole different god. This is apparent with bold statemenst I've heard "christians" make. I find true fellowship in people that have sought God out from the source (the Bible). I recommend discounting everything anyone has told you about God including me, and reading the book for yourself. Skip the geneologies if you must. You can't have faith in Him without knowing Him. You can't know Him without reading the word. In the Bible it says something about searching with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. I found that myself as many others spent months of 8-10 hour days of reading. I don't think any of us could have done that if we weren't "called" or chosen.

 

[Valhalla1]

alright, I'm sorry, I just don't see it. I can't understand how someone who violates every moral fiber in humanity can esacpe scott-free, but someone who simply wasn't reached by god or compelled to seek answers, who was happy with his life and led a good moral life should deserve to be damned for eternity. it just doesn't add up. I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere. yeah, if a 5 year old steals a piece of candy, he shouldn't go to hell for it, but if someone kills another human being in cold blood, I don't see how he can EVER be looked more favorable on than someone who hasn't done a thing wrong except not going to church.


another thing that I really love to see is all the rich preppy kids who go to church on sunday and are looked at as the highest in society, but they are always the first ones to get all fuc#ed up on the weekends and do the most wrong. while on the other hand you may have a poor kid who can't go to church on sunday because he has to work 16 hours a day after class and on the weekends to support his brothers and sisters and disabled mom because his dad left home when he was a kid and now he must live his own life.


it just doesn't click with me. maybe someday I'll understand, but how could this oh-so-merciful god just discard all these souls because they were never taught about religion or decided that if they had problems in life, it was their responsibility to fix them and not free-load off someone, yet they welcome in the sickest, most vile human offenders you could ever imagine as long as they "find God"

 

[Raspewtin]

I find it amusing that anyone is trying to explain "God's point of view." This is absurd, and if I were a vengeful god, I'd striked down first anyone who claimed to know how I thought and proceeded to tell other people my feelings. (j/k but it is absurd to even pretend to understand what God will think)



Valhalla1:



<< one thing that's always bugged me, is that I'm a stout believer in science and evolution... >>



I'm with you, that's why I became Buddhist:



<< &quot;The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism....&quot; >>

-Albert Einstein

 

[Yo Ma Ma]

Well for one, don't confuse faith with the physical act of going to church, they are not the same thing.

Maybe the problem is &quot;going to hell&quot; is usually presented as the punishment in the afterlife, but perhaps it it more of a consequence than a punishment, no faith in God while alive leading to no connection to God after you've died? I'm no expert.

To me even more tragic (in your #1 and #2 scenario) would be the victims of the person in #1, their life brought to an immediate end with no luxury of deciding to accept or reject Christ, unlike both people in #1 and #2 who have plenty of time to be saved.

 

[Valhalla1]

<< Jugernot...

Who will be more disappointed?

The believer that discovers there is no God? Which in your scenairo would not even be possible since when you die you cease to exist in any form thus you would have no knowledge of God's alleged non existance.

or

The non believer who finds out that there is a God but alas it's too late and he/she gets to spend the rest of eternity in hell?
>>




by this statement, you seem to push the worship of a God for the simple reason of &quot;just in case there is one, I don't want to be screwed&quot;. thats not a very good reason to worship, in my opinion.


and you know what? I can't even begin to ponder what happens when you die, because it hurts. I want more than anything for there to be an afterlife, because.. what if there isn't? what happens when you die? what if.. you cease to exist. think about that. Really think about that. Its the most scary thought in the entire world, I think. Its something that made me cry so many times at night as a child. Forever is an awefully long time, and to live on earth for a few short years only to die, and never exist.. think about it, how did you feel before you were born or conceieved? you DIDN'T feel anything! you didn't EXIST. now think about this being the way it will be for eternity.


its not a pretty thought. that in itself makes me want so badly for there to be an afterlife, I just want proof to ease my mind.




If given the choice, would you want to know, right now, whether there is an afterlife or not... and risk living the rest of your life KNOWING that there isn't and that when you die, you simply are gone forever
Or would you rather live your life simply holding on to a thread of faith that when you die, you aren't quite finished yet, and you want to wait until that actually happens before you find out?

I can't really answer that question. I'm afraid at what the answer might be. I'm more afraid of that, than anything else in this world.


Why can't God just make his presence more obvious, and tell us exactly what he wants and expects of our lives? Why can't he himself explain to me why he accepts murderers and hates anyone who doesn't know of him.


What happens when you die?

 

[Raspewtin]

<< Why can't God just make his presence more obvious, and tell us exactly what he wants and expects of our lives? >>




I used to wonder the same thing about Santa Claus for many years ...

 

[luv2chill]

shinerburke - that is the premise of Pascal's Wager, stating that one might as well believe in God because if it ends up not being true he's no worse off.

Also, I want to note that there is a lot of unknowns when it comes to the afterlife. For instance, hell is essentially the eternal absence of God. The depictions of a fiery furnace are more symbolic than anything. No one on this Earth knows what hell (nor heaven) is like yet.

There is also a lot of disagreement on exactly what happens to a soul after death. Many believe (and the bible does not directly contradict) that a soul is given other opportunities to accept Jesus after death. Then there's the whole idea of purgatory.

What it boils down to is that issues such as these are not as clear-cut as anyone here has stated. God is more complex than even the smartest person on this Earth, and not one of us has all the answers. The good news (if you can see it that way) is that these issues aren't necessary to understand fully to have a relationship with God. The MOST important thing is to make your relationship with God your own--no one here can tell you what to feel.

There will always be those who believe you must follow a certain &quot;religion&quot; to have eternal life. Personally I do believe in the trinity, and that Jesus died to absolve me of my sins, but who am I to condemn others for their beliefs? We live in an imperfect world, and I think a little tolerance would go a long way to making this world a better place for us ALL.

Valhalla1, I think that this link is such a great resource. It's extremely informative without all the bias you'd get from other sources.

l2c

 

[U2fan]

whoops.

 

[qacwac]

Here is my basic understanding of salvation and what the Bible says about it which I believe absolutely.

Neither of the above mentioned men are perfect. Especially when you consider that Jesus said whoever breaks one commandment is guilty of breaking the whole law. He also said that whoever looks at a woman to lust has committed adultery, whoever covets has already stolen, and whoever hates his brother is in danger of hell fire. So to say that the one &quot;good&quot; man is not deserving of eternal punishment in hell is incorrect. He too deserves it even if he only committed one sin which everyone committs many, many sins every day. The second aspect is what is true salvation. Jesus says that not everyone who says to Him &quot;Lord, Lord&quot; will enter the kingdom of heaven. I do believe that it is possible to be saved after committing such horrible crimes (I know a man who I greatly respect and is a very good, honest man, who was saved in prison for raping and murdering a woman) I do not believe that everyone who supposedly gets saved in prison is truely saved. Salvation is not a work of man but of God. It is completely illogical that anyone who is dead in his or her sins, loves to sin, hates God, could save themselves. An individual cannot muster up choosing God. A person cannot make himself a new creature. It is only God who can cause light to shine out of darkness. So all that being said it is highly unlikely that someone who lives their life in direct disobedience of God with the intent of repenting at the end will ever be saved (though not impossible) I think it is pretty clear that the raping murder who plans on doing this is only seeking to be saved from hell. And one cannot take Jesus just as Savior. Jesus only comes as Savior and Lord. For a long time I sought to be saved but never found it. But then God caused the light of the gospel Christ to shine in me and I made Jesus the Lord of my life.

Now in this there are steps. One step is cetainly true repentance and a turning away from sin which the originally mentioned convict may have done. But what ALWAYS follows in true conversion is a commitment to dependence upon Jesus Christ as Lord. Without this it is not true salvation. In the case of the convict the genuineness of his conversion cannot be readily viewed (if he is put to death) so I would not say whether he was a true Christian or not. It is in the hands of God and he will do justly. If the blood of Christ truly covers him then we will worship God in heaven forever. If it is not true salvation he will suffer eternal punishment for his crimes.

So then I end with this. To any seeking salvation in Christ Jesus, the only way to the Father, is to repent, commit your lives to dependence upon Him and beg for forgiveness. That is how I would present salvation if I were witnessing to someone. (in general at least)

 

[FrontlineWarrior]

Christian beliefs:
1. everyone has sinned and deserves death.
2. some are elected to be saved.

So the murderer, rapist, cheat is sinful, just as the other dude is sinful. both deserve hell, but one is elected, chosen, predestined to be saved. whom God chooses for election has nothing to do with good deeds or &quot;deserving&quot; it. That's the protestant version anyway.

Hope that answers your question. have a nice day.

 

[jsm]

I think you folks need to do some reading. ALL OF YOU.

Reality.

So, who has killed more people in the bible? God or Satan?

One last thing - there was this great quote I read. It went like this:

&quot;if society were less intelligent, then astrology would flourish. If society were more intelligent, religion would no longer exist&quot;. Good stuff!

ALL HAIL ZEUS.

 

[Rakkis]

I've been Atheist/Agnostic for about 8 years now. I was never really a true believer and only attended mass and followed the sacraments because I was born and raised Catholic. But from what others have posted as well as from the folklore I remember, some of the users here are not really understanding some fundamental Christian beliefs.

A few users have raised the issue that God sees us all the same way: As sentient beings that are innately imperfect and are only able to share our existance with him by recognizing our limitations and accepting God to be our creator/savior.

According to Christianity, We are all born with the original sin. Which is basically the legacy of Adam/Eve for not having obeyed God and gaining the ability to discern between right and wrong. i.e. after &quot;eating of the tree of life&quot;. Be that literal or metaphoric.. it boils down to the same thing: We are now mortal and must make ourselves worthy of coexisting with God again.

So... by default we are all going to die and our souls going to hell (insert your definition here) unless we accept that God is our creator, yadda yadda yadda. It is only through this that we can 'go to heaven'.

So in the end, it is not a matter of what 'sins' one did/did not commit in life, but whether we have accepted God (thereby regaining favor with him) that enables us to circumvent hell.

[edit: typo. <sigh> must I *always* do that? ]

 

[jsm]

Rakkis - I always thought that god did not want adam &amp; eve eating the fruit of knowledge because then they would know right and wrong and be on the same level as god..? Isn't that what is says in the bible?