christopher hitchens

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buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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Even if only one in 10^100 universes satisfies the necessary conditions, given 10^100,000,000,000 universes, there are a ton of universes containing intelligent beings marveling at their good fortune.
Do you have any evidence, at all, of even a 2nd universe let alone this ridiculous amount of them?
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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Then why are you watching atheist speeches?
Same reason I go to History lectures, Milehigh TED talks and other science meetups.

I'm not being told how to think at those, I am listening to perspectives and results from data gathering to enlighten myself. I get to leave though with the ability to agree or disagree and come to my own conclusion.

When you go to the Zealot house (church, temple, mosque) you have to leave with a set stance based on what the old toilet paper roll (bible, BOM, Quran) tells you.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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Same reason I go to History lectures, Milehigh TED talks and other science meetups.

I'm not being told how to think at those, I am listening to perspectives and results from data gathering to enlighten myself. I get to leave though with the ability to agree or disagree and come to my own conclusion.

When you go to the Zealot house (church, temple, mosque) you have to leave with a set stance based on what the old toilet paper roll (bible, BOM, Quran) tells you.
I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so insulting. Does it make you feel better or are there some inadequacies you're trying to cover up?

But I do get to leave my church and think for myself. I often disagree with what I hear. I think for myself, always.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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I'm not sure why you feel the need to be so insulting. Does it make you feel better or are there some inadequacies you're trying to cover up?

But I do get to leave my church and think for myself. I often disagree with what I hear. I think for myself, always.
Don't worry, I wasn't insulting you personally, I was insulting all religions and what they foster. That is why I included the big names.

I don't care if people have faith in something, fine go home and believe in whatever you want to believe in, but when it comes to what has occurred in history or what is occurring with our planet and politics today I don't want us making decisions based on teachings that favor a specific group. That is why I don't support party voting or religious groups. Reason and Individualism should be the foundation for us making our laws.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Don't worry, I wasn't insulting you personally, I was insulting all religions and what they foster. That is why I included the big names.

I don't care if people have faith in something, fine go home and believe in whatever you want to believe in, but when it comes to what has occurred in history or what is occurring with our planet and politics today I don't want us making decisions based on teachings that favor a specific group. That is why I don't support party voting or religious groups. Reason and Individualism should be the foundation for us making our laws.

How do we know if we are reasonable? When we elevate reason to be a good quality to have, it seems to me that one of the first things that happens is that the unreasonable will call themselves reasonable and that burden on me. And what if they really believe it?
 
Nov 29, 2006
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Do you have any evidence, at all, of even a 2nd universe let alone this ridiculous amount of them?

Im assuming Shira meant to say galaxies instead of universes, but i could be wrong. Ill let him correct or verify. Maybe that is the confusion youre having.
 
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TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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How do we know if we are reasonable? When we elevate reason to be a good quality to have, it seems to me that one of the first things that happens is that the unreasonable will call themselves reasonable and that burden on me. And what if they really believe it?
Right now out of a certain group there are many people within it who don't think for themselves believe the world is 6000 years old. I'll risk a handful of people coming to that conclusion on their own as opposed to a megachurch full of people raised to buy into anything sold there.
 
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TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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I understand that. I just don't understand why.
If you read my entire post you would understand, I don't like people being part of rigid groups with rules they have to buy into. It allows the reinforcement of things like intolerance

I am a huge supporter of Bernie Sanders, but I think Hillary is one in the same with the GOP given her track record so I won't vote for her and I flat out don't even bother with the GOP cause I don't think they will ever win the oval office again, but the ostracism I get from even the most PC/SJW lefties on this forum is vicious. Why? because it is either "you are with us ALL THE WAY or against us" mentality. It brings out the worst in people.

If you go down and donate a box of food to your local shelter and said a prayer while you were there and you feel good about it, that is awesome, I can do the same thing minus the prayer and neither one of us needed an organized group to give us that satisfaction.
 
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buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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If you read my entire post you would understand, I don't like people being part of rigid groups with rules they have to buy into. It allows the reinforcement of things like intolerance
So the people you're trying to convince you insult something they hold dear?
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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So the people you're trying to convince you insult something they hold dear?
Their holding it dear is why they allow it to control them.

I was born in a Catholic family, by 5th grade I was expelled from Catholic school (thankfully) for my questioning. You will be not only fine but better without that.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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Their holding it dear is why they allow it to control them.

I was born in a Catholic family, by 5th grade I was expelled from Catholic school (thankfully) for my questioning. You will be not only fine but better without that.
None of this explains why you choose to be so insulting. It just seemed gratuitous. Anyway, carry on.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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None of this explains why you choose to be so insulting. It just seemed gratuitous. Anyway, carry on.
"SO insulting" :thumbsdown:

You are a victim and fit in great in this overly sensitive society we have become. Let's go ahead and add each other to ignore lists.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Their holding it dear is why they allow it to control them.

I was born in a Catholic family, by 5th grade I was expelled from Catholic school (thankfully) for my questioning. You will be not only fine but better without that.

Well I for one think it's great that you're responding to something expressly featured in the beginning of video clip you posted earlier (4 Horse Men), to someone who proclaims to be quite familiar with Hitchens. I probably wouldn't have used the phrase "zealot house" myself earlier, but technically that term does probably apply to a fair number of places of worship. Immaterial given the hypersensitivity at use by the religilous I suppose though.

Trolls exposing themselves aside, looks like your experience as a kid was similar to my own Protestant themed upbringing.
 
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Nov 29, 2006
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Their holding it dear is why they allow it to control them.

I was born in a Catholic family, by 5th grade I was expelled from Catholic school (thankfully) for my questioning. You will be not only fine but better without that.

I find it funny when a school is one of the places your supposed to learn and question things that they would expel you for questioning things. I guess you can question anything... but religion. To me that just shows they know its already on shaky ground and were hoping for good little sheeple to just blindly follow
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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Well I for one think it's great that you're responding to something expressly featured in the beginning of video clip you posted earlier (4 Horse Men), to someone who proclaims to be quite familiar with Hitchens. I probably wouldn't have used the phrase "zealot house" myself earlier, but technically that term does probably apply to a fair number of places of worship. Immaterial given the hypersensitivity at use by the religilous I suppose though.

Trolls exposing themselves aside, looks like your experience as a kid was similar to my own Protestant themed upbringing.
My version of zealot was more in the classic definition and not the one used today in most internet correspondence as a belittlement.

"a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings"

My feelings on the bible and Quran are quite harsh though I will admit, but when a book says slavery is okay and that killing infidels is a good thing I have no tolerance for that.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Right now out of a certain group there are many people within it who don't think for themselves believe the world is 6000 years old. I'll risk a handful of people coming to that conclusion on their own as opposed to a megachurch full of people raised to buy into anything sold there.

Not sure how I am to decide what reasonable is from that. Do you mean that if people go to a big church and believe what is taught there, that makes them unreasonable? How about if they go to MIT.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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I find it funny when a school is one of the places your supposed to learn and question things that they would expel you for questioning things. I guess you can question anything... but religion. To me that just shows they know its already on shaky ground and were hoping for good little sheeple to just blindly follow
I agree, it was kind of nice though because that was the beginning of the end of my dads Catholicism also cause he also thought the same thing so it didn't become a bad subject between us.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
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Not sure how I am to decide what reasonable is from that. Do you mean that if people go to a big church and believe what is taught there, that makes them unreasonable? How about if they go to MIT.
MIT teaches you how to become a problem solver, a skillset and how to do research to get an answer. Religion tells you the answer you are supposed to believe and obey.

I go to MIT and while I'm there I read a paper published by a person without a degree and choose to support their theory or findings I get to do that and I suffer no repercussions. If I walk out of the voting booth and I vote Indy then intolerant Dems such as yourself (based on your comments to me in the past) I am unforgivable. If a Muslim or Christian is gay and open about it what usually happens to them from their peers or the entity?

Thanks though.
 
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buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
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"SO insulting" :thumbsdown:

You are a victim and fit in great in this overly sensitive society we have become. Let's go ahead and add each other to ignore lists.
I'm not insulted, I just don't get the purpose of saying such things.

You're the one who said something insulting and the you blame me for asking you about it. I don't get it.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,060
6,601
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MIT teaches you how to become a problem solver, a skillset and how to do research to get an answer. Religion tells you the answer you are supposed to believe and obey.

I go to MIT and while I'm there I read a paper published by a person without a degree and choose to support their theory or findings I get to do that and I suffer no repercussions. If I walk out of the voting booth and I vote Indy then intolerant Dems such as yourself (based on your comments to me in the past) I am unforgivable. If a Muslim or Christian is gay and open about it what usually happens to them from their peers or the entity?

Thanks though.

I wanted you to tell me how I can know if I'm rational. Nothing in your replies is remotely related to my question that I can see. I don't see an alternative to the assumption that you have no way of knowing what is rational or not that you can communicate. This reaffirms my conviction that people imagine that if they have opinions, they are ipso facto rational.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
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I wanted you to tell me how I can know if I'm rational. Nothing in your replies is remotely related to my question that I can see. I don't see an alternative to the assumption that you have no way of knowing what is rational or not that you can communicate. This reaffirms my conviction that people imagine that if they have opinions, they are ipso facto rational.
No, the definition of reason is coming to an answer that is based on facts, not opinions or beliefs.

If Moonbeam says the earth is flat, then I post this pic


and call him irrational.

Your GOP party you hate so bad keeps being irrational with Climate change.. "Never mind ice caps shrinking, deserts where swamps once were, reefs collapsing, we have no data on this I just don't see it"

The RATIONAL people are looking at that data and saying yes we are seeing change.
 
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