Clarence Thomas at it again

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
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0
Why is this guy still no the bench? He and Scalia should have been impeached many years ago. And before the righties go off on a tangent, so should some of the liberal judges. I don't mind and actually think that it is good for the health of the country to have different views and interpretations of the law serving on the court. But is is transparently clear that these two, more so than others, are only serving themselves.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/15/us/politics/15thomas.html?_r=1&hpw

Discrepancies in reports about an appearance by Justice Clarence Thomas at a political retreat for wealthy conservatives three years ago have prompted new questions to the Supreme Court from a group that advocates changing campaign finance laws.

When questions were first raised about the retreat last month, a court spokeswoman said Justice Thomas had made a “brief drop-by” at the event in Palm Springs, Calif., in January 2008 and had given a talk.

In his financial disclosure report for that year, however, Justice Thomas reported that the Federalist Society, a prominent conservative legal group, had reimbursed him an undisclosed amount for four days of “transportation, meals and accommodations” over the weekend of the retreat. The event is organized by Charles and David Koch, brothers who have used millions of dollars from the energy conglomerate they run in Wichita, Kan., to finance conservative causes.

Arn Pearson, a vice president at the advocacy group Common Cause, said the two statements appeared at odds. His group sent a letter to the Supreme Court on Monday asking for “further clarification” as to whether the justice spent four days at the retreat for the entire event or was there only briefly.

“I don’t think the explanation they’ve given is credible,” Mr. Pearson said in an interview. He said that if Justice Thomas’s visit was a “four-day, all-expenses paid trip in sunny Palm Springs,” it should have been reported as a gift under federal law.

The Supreme Court had no comment on the issue Monday. Nor did officials at the Federalist Society or at Koch Industries.

Common Cause maintains that Justice Thomas should have disqualified himself from last year’s landmark campaign finance ruling in the Citizens United case, partly because of his ties to the Koch brothers.

In a petition filed with the Justice Department last month, the advocacy group said past appearances at the Koch brothers’ retreat by Justice Thomas and Justice Antonin Scalia, along with the conservative political work of Justice Thomas’s wife, had created a possible perception of bias in hearing the case.

The Citizens United decision, with Justice Thomas’s support, freed corporations to engage in direct political spending with little public disclosure. The Koch brothers have been among the main beneficiaries, political analysts say.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
A "brief stop-by" doesn't indicate how long it was. So he was there for 4 days. So what? He was speaking to the federalist society and got reimbursed for his accommodations and meals. 404, issue not found. Just whining from Common Cause, a well known leftist fringe group of numbnuts.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Not seeing a problem here. Is he supposed to pay for it out of his pocket or something?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
30,400
44,912
136
Heh, typical. How different the tune would be if the justice was liberal and this involved George Soros instead of the Koch Brothers.

If there is nothing to hide then why the time frame discrepancy? Why is the amount undisclosed? Those damn whiney idiots have some nerve asking for "clarification."
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
25,513
11,898
136
Not seeing a problem here. Is he supposed to pay for it out of his pocket or something?

A justice, especially a SCOTUS justice, conflict's of interest should be beyond reproach.
At a minimum, he should have recused himself from that case in particular, since the brief was largely funded by a Koch brother front, excuse me, foundation.

Not surprised though, that you don't see a problem here.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
A justice, especially a SCOTUS justice, conflict's of interest should be beyond reproach.
At a minimum, he should have recused himself from that case in particular, since the brief was largely funded by a Coch brother front, excuse me, foundation.

Not surprised though, that you don't see a problem here.

Then you agree that Kagan should recuse herself from the healthcare law that will wind up before the SC. Good.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
can it really count as corruption when Clarence Thomas would side with the conservatives regardless of whether or not they put him up in a hotel room for a weekend?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
A justice, especially a SCOTUS justice, conflict's of interest should be beyond reproach.
At a minimum, he should have recused himself from that case in particular, since the brief was largely funded by a Coch brother front, excuse me, foundation.

Not surprised though, that you don't see a problem here.

How is this a "conflict of interest"?

I think my questions turns more on the meaning of that phrase. I.e., I see a conflict of interest as being a situation where you have two seperate interest in conflict - your own financial interest and the interests of the taxpayers/country whom you represent.

I see a conflcit of interest where a Congressperson votes to award a government contract to a company (s)he owns. Did they vote because they want the profit, or because it was in the best interest of the USA?

What were the two interest at conflict with Thomas and the court decision in question?

I understand the Federalist Society is a lawyer group not unlike the ABA, the difference being which way (Left v Right) they slant.

I saw this on Wiki:

The Society seeks to debate constitutional issues and public policy questions, and this commitment extends to inviting speakers who do not agree with the society's principles. For example, past invitees include Justice Stephen Breyer and law professor Alan Dershowitz, two legal authorities who disagree with many of the Society's views.

Given that they are a group dedicated to debating Constitutional issues, I think it perfectly normal they invite SC judges.

I'm not seeing the problem here. (Whether or not he properly reported any reimbursements is a seperate matter, and there is insuficient info presented to develop any opinion on that question.)

Fern
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
-snip-
Why is the amount undisclosed?

Yeah, I wondered about this also.

I suspect because the answer is that he doesn't know the amount.

Take meals for example. If he were there for a day (let's say) how could he possibly know how much a single breakfast, lunch and dinner would cost? I'm betting it's a banquet type setting.

Somebody who was responsible for the arrangements (a F.S. employee) would have to gather an awful lot of accounting info and make some wild guesses, particularly if the resort gave them a fixed price for eveything (food + refreshments + accomodations + transportation from the airport on a shuttle etc).

Fern
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Fern,

I want to address a couple of points that you made:

1. The conflict of interest is in accepting thousands of dollars (and room, board, flight, etc at an upscale resort will probably be closer to tens of thousands) from a group that is about to argue a case in your court. I think that is pretty clear and very apparent.

2. The "he doesn't know the amount" cop out doesn't work. Having worked at resorts exactly like the one that he "briefly stopped by", you can very easily get a breakdown of costs including meals that are served at banquets (including how much was for the meal and how much was for the gratuity). All you have to do is be even remotely interested in finding out and ask the front desk for a breakdown. These resorts will, at times, provide a "lump sum" total to the guests, but there is absolutely, 100%, every single time, a breakdown available. They have to have it for their own accounting records and for tax reporting purposes.

The amount was undisclosed because he never had any intent of paying for it.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Guess what, he will be one of the 5 that vote to appeal Obamacare. Does this make you mad? Sad?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Then you agree that Kagan should recuse herself from the healthcare law that will wind up before the SC. Good.
And of course Darth Bader Ginsburg will recuse herself from any cases argued or supported (at any level) by the ACLU.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
Shucks, kiddies, there are job requirements even for SCOTUS justices. And Thomas' attempts to obfuscate his level of participation indicate that he may not have lived up to them when participating in the Citizens United case.

And, of course, our resident Righties will attempt to obfuscate and duh-vert further, because nothing matters more than their team winning, regardless of the way of winning, right?
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
What is the link in citizens united freedom of speech case and the evil overlord brothers?
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,250
2,341
136
Looks like they are on a roll. Getting ready for 1012.

Common Cause is a liberal nonpartisan, nonprofit citizens' lobby and advocacy organization.
...
It is described as liberal by such news organizations as The Washington Post, The New York Times, Newsweek, TIME, and USA Today.[7][8][9][10][11]
...
Advocacy against conservatives
In January 2011, Common Cause participated in three separate actions against conservatives. They filed a petition with the Justice Department, seeking an investigation about whether Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas should have recused themselves from the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission case.[18] Common Cause then investigated the financial filings of Thomas, saying that Thomas did not include his wife's income in his filings.[19] Bob Edgar, Common Cause president, called Thomas' explanation of his omissions "implausible." Lastly, they helped to organize a protest against the conservative Koch brothers.[20]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Cause


Palm Springs, California -At the front gates of the Rancho Las Palmas resort, a few hundred liberals rallied Sunday against "corporate greed" and polluters. They chanted for the arrest of billionaires Charles and David Koch, and their ire was also directed at the other free market-oriented businessmen invited here by the Koch brothers to discuss free markets and electoral strategies.

Billionaires poisoning our politics was the central theme of the protests. But nothing is quite as it seems in modern politics: The protest's organizer, the nonprofit Common Cause, is funded by billionaire George Soros.

Common Cause has received $2 million from Soros's Open Society Institute in the past eight years, according to grant data provided by Capital Research Center. Two panelists at Common Cause's rival conference nearby -- President Obama's former green jobs czar, Van Jones, and blogger Lee Fang -- work at the Center for American Progress, which was started and funded by Soros but, as a 501(c)4 nonprofit "think tank," legally conceals the names of its donors.

In other words, money from billionaire George Soros and anonymous, well-heeled liberals was funding a protest against rich people's influence on politics.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/01/kochs-vs-soros-free-markets-vs-state-coercion
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136

Washington Examiner... one of the 3 news organizations that attends the Koch bros fetes, but reports nothing as to what's said....

Probably nothing interesting, I'm sure. The parent company of the Examiner and the Weekly Standard is owned by Phil Anschutz, a Koch crony...

Maybe they're not there in a news gathering capacity... but rather as members of the clan...

The CAP operates on a budget of $25M/yr, so Soros contributed 0.1%-

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_American_Progress
 
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Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Fern,

I want to address a couple of points that you made:

1. The conflict of interest is in accepting thousands of dollars (and room, board, flight, etc at an upscale resort will probably be closer to tens of thousands) from a group that is about to argue a case in your court. I think that is pretty clear and very apparent.

I thought Citizens United was the party in the case (v the FEC), not the Federalist Society? Accordingly, I don't see the problem.

What if the F.S. submitted an amicus brief? I still don't see a problem. The ABA submits amicus briefs and all the judges are members of the ABA. They don't have to all recuse themselves.

Even if the Federalists Soceity was a party to the case, I question whether it would be a problem. He has no employment relationship with them, no financial interest/ownership with the F.S. etc. If he were a member of the F.S. and it was the F.S. instead of Citizens United, I suppose he'd have to recuse himself. But I just don't see how giving a speech, or serving on a panel discussion for some group means you now have a conflict of interest. If that were the case, they wouldn't all be running around giving speeches before various groups when the court is not in session.

2. The "he doesn't know the amount" cop out doesn't work. Having worked at resorts exactly like the one that he "briefly stopped by", you can very easily get a breakdown of costs including meals that are served at banquets (including how much was for the meal and how much was for the gratuity). All you have to do is be even remotely interested in finding out and ask the front desk for a breakdown. These resorts will, at times, provide a "lump sum" total to the guests, but there is absolutely, 100%, every single time, a breakdown available. They have to have it for their own accounting records and for tax reporting purposes.

The amount was undisclosed because he never had any intent of paying for it.[/QUOTE]

Uh no, not always. Depends how the arrangements were made. The planner for the Federalist Society could have gotten a one lump sum package deal negotiated between them and the hotel/resort. I.e., if you individually priced out the room, the food, the transportation etc it will add to much more than what was actually paid in total. The front desk people know 'retail' prices, and it's more likely a discount deal was done for an event of this magnitude.

In my experience, there are generally two types of these conventions. One in which you are invited but you put the room and food etc on your own credit card. The other being where the sponsor organization prepaid all your expenses, and you just show up. And, for the latter type, I've never been given any info on the costs etc.

And of course he had no intention of paying for it. How does that matter? And if he was there for a speaking engagement etc it would not need to be reported for his tax purposes. If it did need to be reported for some reason, he could have simply reported the amount they gave him on the 1099. But apparently it didn't have to reported, therefore he doesn't know.

Fern
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Fern,

Of the latter stays that you've had experience with, how many have you actually asked for a breakdown of costs?

There is a quick and easy way of getting a breakdown of costs, including discounted rates, you ask. The front desk only knows "retail rates" when they are quoting, once a guest is already checking out, getting a tally is very easy to do.
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
Fern,

Of the latter stays that you've had experience with, how many have you actually asked for a breakdown of costs?

There is a quick and easy way of getting a breakdown of costs, including discounted rates, you ask. The front desk only knows "retail rates" when they are quoting, once a guest is already checking out, getting a tally is very easy to do.

Facepalm.

He didn't have to get a breakdown of costs or any of that nonsense, even if there was a way for him to get it. The costs are irrelevant regardless. They invited him to participate in a discussion and paid for his stay and meals. How much it costs doesn't matter, he doesn't have to disclose it either way and it's completely irrelevant anyway.

Just more whining because the left doesn't like a judge who doesn't make the law say whatever they want it to say.
 
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