Climate Science Is Not Settled

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126
I meant that we want to transition to fusion in the long term but we need to rely on thorium, other nuclear, green, and other power technologies until we actually have fully operational fusion power infrastructure supporting all of our power use.

The prediction for possible commercial fusion power right now is 2050 but that is a rough estimate. Prototype fusion power plants may be built around 2030 to 2040 or so. The first research reactors including ITER are supposed to start their operations around 2018 or so.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Nuclear isn't going to happen because of soccer Moms, and fusion has been around the corner forever.

The home production of hydrogen gas by cheap catalysts using sunlight and the use of fuel cells in the home and cars offers a much more socially acceptable way to go.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
21,946
6,278
136
You use a word to start some vitriol while ignoring the context of the word and the rest of the sentence.

No, I pointed out that your proposing a solution that pivots on a technology that doesn't exist.
Someday we might have warp drives and direct energy/matter converters, but we can't base long term plans on that technology either.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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I meant that we want to transition to fusion in the long term but we need to rely on thorium, other nuclear, green, and other power technologies until we actually have fully operational fusion power infrastructure supporting all of our power use.

The prediction for possible commercial fusion power right now is 2050 but that is a rough estimate. Prototype fusion power plants may be built around 2030 to 2040 or so. The first research reactors including ITER are supposed to start their operations around 2018 or so.
I agree with you regarding thorium and nuclear reactors as these technologies are proven. However, although hopeful...I'm not nearly as optimistic about ITER as you seem to be.

"We say that we will put the sun into a box. The idea is pretty. The problem is, we don't know how to make the box." - Pierre-Gilles de Gennes
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126
Kleptocrat Brain Defect?

The liberal belief that logic and facts are what convinces people of things. If you can't see these poor sad conservatives can't be reached by reason, you must have a brain defect. They are telling you to your face that they make up their own facts that match exactly what they want to believe and they do not care what you think. Now what you want to do is beat your head bloody trying to show them they fail at logic. They love their dementia and aren't going to let go of it for you, anymore apparently, then you are going to let go of the notion that more and better logic will change them. It won't. Their dementia is complete and they so despise the thought they could be wrong that they will never be. So the question you need to ask is why do you continue to point out the illogic and absurdity of their thinking when that does absolutely no good?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126
I am hopeful although not certain about anything.

I see more hope in the local production of power both as a means of reducing the need for long distance transmission lines that will need to be built, and the national security provided by having millions of eggs spread out instead of single huge targets. I also find the notion that the sun that shines on my roof is where my power comes from an emotionally satisfying feeling. I don't like the notion of producing toxins that kill for thousands of years so I can have a warm bath today. I look at science divorced from feeling as monstrously dangerous to civilization.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I see more hope in the local production of power both as a means of reducing the need for long distance transmission lines that will need to be built, and the national security provided by having millions of eggs spread out instead of single huge targets. I also find the notion that the sun that shines on my roof is where my power comes from an emotionally satisfying feeling. I don't like the notion of producing toxins that kill for thousands of years so I can have a warm bath today. I look at science divorced from feeling as monstrously dangerous to civilization.

And I also support private power production for personal use. In fact I would love for citizens to personally regulate their own power without the government or companies controlling or receiving data on all of the power use of citizens.
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
His uncertainty is ridiculous. He is basically arguing that because the damage could be anywhere from really bad to utterly catastrophic that we should not act. There is no non-terrible band in his uncertainty. Therefore the way forward is clear.

This is simply another step in the steady retreat of climate denialists. In and of itself this is a good step forward though.

Yes! Tax the air people breathe and all other kinds of things gaseous-form related! That's the solution!

That's the solution! Sure!
:sneaky:
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126
How about we build heat pumps to power lasers and transfer the heat from earth by melting the moon. It could come in handy if we are invaded by aliens not from Mexico. We could call it The LunarRay or the Moon Beam-Weapon.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126
The psychological awareness of the characteristics of the CBD have been with us for centuries and fill our literature with warning as to its dangers. Take the story of the slowly raising the temperature of frogs in a pot till they boil rather than jumping out.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,564
54,445
136
Yes! Tax the air people breathe and all other kinds of things gaseous-form related! That's the solution!

That's the solution! Sure!
:sneaky:

Yes, taxing pollutants IS in fact a good solution. One that has a proven track record of success! So glad you're onboard with common sense answers.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
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106
http://nypost.com/2014/09/22/climate-change-skeptics-call-out-marchers-hypocrisies/

“Somehow this doesn’t seem too green 2me,” Kreutzer tweeted.

He and other critics of the People’s Climate March called the protesters hypocrites for wasting paper and burning fossil fuel in getting to the big event.

“The hypocrisy varies from person to person,” economist Kreutzer, 61, told The Post. “The ones that fly in on private jets are the most hypocritical.”
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
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londojowo.hypermart.net
Due to the cheap natural gas prices Combined Cycle plants will be the way most power companies and municipalities will be going for power production for some time to come.

http://www.power-eng.com/articles/2014/02/a-report-on-combined-cycle-projects-in-north-america.html

Meanwhile, natural gas-fired generation is projected to grow 3.1 percent a year through 2038, adding 348,000 MW of gas-fired capacity to the U.S. grid, according to a report released last month by Black & Veatch. Most, if not all, of that capacity will be met with CCGT technology. Natural gas-fired combined cycle plants are expected to account for 50.5 percent of U.S. power production by 2038, up from 25 percent this year, according to the report. By 2038, coal’s share of the generation pie will drop to 21 percent, down from 39 percent in 2014.

In its 2014 outlook, the Energy Information Administration said natural gas will overtake coal as the dominant source of power generation by 2035. That’s a significant change compared with EIA’s 2013 outlook, which projected coal would account for most of the nation’s power production through 2040.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,564
54,445
136
http://nypost.com/2014/09/22/climate-change-skeptics-call-out-marchers-hypocrisies/

“Somehow this doesn’t seem too green 2me,” Kreutzer tweeted.

He and other critics of the People’s Climate March called the protesters hypocrites for wasting paper and burning fossil fuel in getting to the big event.

“The hypocrisy varies from person to person,” economist Kreutzer, 61, told The Post. “The ones that fly in on private jets are the most hypocritical.”

This just reinforces the fundamental dishonesty and cluelessness of the climate change deniers.

Our transportation systems are currently carbon based; that's one of the things we are trying to change. Using transportation systems as they are while trying to change them isn't hypocritical, it's common sense.

Seriously, articles like this just make the denier community look pathetic.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,333
9,538
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Powerful international partnerships with China, Brazil, and India could deal with this. They have the growing economies right now and we are yelling about what to do with the already existing pollution right now when the industry in China and particularly India are going to start releasing massive pollution. China already is and although they are now starting to lower their pollution it will take years to accomplish that.

What exactly does the global "partnership" deal with?

If we approved and financed the construction of Thorium reactors _today_ , it'd take 10-20? years before they'd be operational. I figure they won't really be operating until 2040. Then it'd still take decades to continue that process across the nation. I'm talking about a process that takes us closer to the end of the 21st century.

That's if we started today. How long until we approve such measures?

What policy do you have to prevent 600ppm?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,369
6,663
126

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
You do know it is too late to do anything about the increase of CO2. Water vapor the main green house gas has a cycle of seven to fourteen days, CO2 is in the hundreds of years. Any use of fossil fuels will only increase the amount in the atmosphere.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
What exactly does the global "partnership" deal with?

Using all available green technology from around the world especially American technology to design green power technology, green transportation vehicles, and more that China and India will produce for both themselves and the US. Basically we allow them access to our technology for them producing vehicles, machinery, infrastructure, etc. and selling it to us for low cost. They can also produce these same goods for their society allowing themselves to start using green technology right away without needing to use polluting industry to develop their country. Since they would be producing for both themselves and us they can gain from the economies of scale and everything is even cheaper for everyone.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
You do know it is too late to do anything about the increase of CO2. Water vapor the main green house gas has a cycle of seven to fourteen days, CO2 is in the hundreds of years. Any use of fossil fuels will only increase the amount in the atmosphere.

And as far as I know methane put both to shame on the duration of residence in the atmosphere.
 

bshole

Diamond Member
Mar 12, 2013
8,315
1,215
126
Rising sea level is one of the most serious consequences of global warming. In the past 50 years, sea level rose about 1.8 (plus or minus 0.3) millimeters a year. Satellite observations since 1993 indicate the pace has accelerated to about 3 millimeters per year. What’s driving the acceleration? How much and how fast will sea level rise in the future? In trying to answer these questions, scientists repeatedly tried to balance the sea level budget, and they repeatedly came up short.

Way to hoist yourself on your own petard. So the most explosive growth in atmospheric global warming in the last century was between 1993-1997. Concurrently in this time frame the ocean was warming at 3 degrees C BY YOUR OWN POST. Since that time, the ocean has continued to warm at the SAME pace but atmospheric warming has completely flatlined.... all while CO2 release has continued unabated.

Jesus do you even pay attention to the facts you post? You are supposed to post facts that support your side of the argument NOT MINE!!!!!!
 
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