I agree,
but by the time the 290x passes the 980 we will all have new cards (or should) and we won't care because the 980/290 will be over 5 years old.. :thumbsup:
Well this is a thread that says "Hey, discuss this topic, but ONLY use this data to do so", so technically speaking, you're off topic.
However, what we can conclude from the article is this:
When AMD makes a chip, they will continue to extract more and more performance from it at a greater rate than Nvidia.
And that when Nvidia makes a chip, it's not forward looking. It's very current looking and will not last long.
It's also more targeted to lower resolution gaming vs AMD targeting higher resolution.
So if you want a 1080p chip for today that won't last long and you want to buy another video card in 2 years, get Nvidia.
Until Nvidia changes, that's how it will be.
The R9 290x will have been better than the GTX 780 Ti GTX 980, and don't worry, it could pass the 980Ti one day too consistently.
I agree,
but by the time the 290x passes the 980 we will all have new cards (or should) and we won't care because the 980/290 will be over 5 years old.. :thumbsup:
I agree,
but by the time the 290x passes the 980 we will all have new cards (or should) and we won't care because the 980/290 will be over 5 years old.. :thumbsup:
I think Mahigan did a great job explaining in detail why Kepler is failing behind in newer titles. I would love to see someone like Ryan Smith do a deep dive as well. I think this would clear up a lot of the misinformation and speculation about this issue in most tech forums, not just this one.
The R9 290x will have been better than the GTX 780 Ti GTX 980, and don't worry, it could pass the 980Ti one day too consistently.
So we have new cards today? Where can I buy these new cards today? I can't seem to find them anywhere? What are these new cards, available today, called?
I'm all for it, but by the time that happens this will be old news and we will be playing with Polaris and x70/x80's.
In games from 2009-2013 (and old drivers) 780Ti OC is better in all of them, or even crushing 290x OC by a whopping 50-100% (even in 1440p!) in:
- Borderlands,
- Metro Last Light,
Or 30% better in
- Crysis 2,
- Batman AC,
- Max Payne 3,
- AC 3,
- Far Cry 3,
- The Secret World
- Bioshock Infinite
- Splinter Cell Blacklist
- Batman Arkham Origins
Overall commanding lead.
In games from 2014-2016 (new drivers) 780Ti is worse in all than 290x especially in 1440p exept winning in:
- Wolfenstein 2015,
- Total War 2015,
- Project Cars 2015,
- Fallout 4 (but here on par in 1440p),
- On par in RotTR 1440p.
Overall losing.
In 2016 games 780Ti started to really struggle. So it is downgraded now in comparison to release state.
has there ever been another card to go up against 3 flagship GPUs across their competitors uarch changes?
What hardware will be powering the PS 4.5 and the next XBox?
Will it be old news? That's the question. We could see this issue popping up for some time to come. That's sort of why these console wins, though low margin wins and not really helping AMD much profit wise, appears to be paying off in another way.
We may very well see the R9 390x pass the GTX 980 in all newer titles, instead of a few here and there right now, indicating a trend. What will this mean for the x70/x80 cards from NVIDIA?
Seems to me that what we saw with Kepler will repeat itself again and again so long as all of the consoles are powered by GCN.
The only card AMD have been unable to touch is the GTX 980 Ti. We might see the same result with the x80 Ti (GP100).
I highly doubt that NVIDIA dropped the ball on their Kepler drivers, unlike many AMD fans would have us believe. I refuse to accept the notion that NVIDIA push for planned obsolescence that quickly. NVIDIA aren't that greedy or malevolent.
That's why I put forward an explanation. Not to derail the thread but to stop this nonsensical NVIDIA bashing.
What hardware will be powering the PS 4.5 and the next XBox?
Will it be old news? That's the question. We could see this issue popping up for some time to come. That's sort of why these console wins, though low margin wins and not really helping AMD much profit wise, appears to be paying off in another way.
We may very well see the R9 390x pass the GTX 980 in all newer titles, instead of a few here and there right now, indicating a trend. What will this mean for the x70/x80 cards from NVIDIA?
Seems to me that what we saw with Kepler will repeat itself again and again so long as all of the consoles are powered by GCN.
The only card AMD have been unable to touch is the GTX 980 Ti. We might see the same result with the x80 Ti (GP100).
I highly doubt that NVIDIA dropped the ball on their Kepler drivers, unlike many AMD fans would have us believe. I refuse to accept the notion that NVIDIA push for planned obsolescence that quickly. NVIDIA aren't that greedy or malevolent.
That's why I put forward an explanation. Not to derail the thread but to stop this nonsensical NVIDIA bashing.
I agree with you I'm admittedly biased towards AMD but the Nvidia bashing gets insane sometimes.Nvidia didn't Gimp Kepler per say and they wont gimp Maxwell when Pascal arrives. They seem to make cards for current API's and to get the best performance out of current games on said API's,It looks like AMD took a different approach and created hardware that couldn't be utilized by current API's and then went ahead and made their own new API,i doubt Nvidia foresaw that DX12,Mantle,Vulkan would have been so deeply guided by AMD and now if they want to continue their approach of creating hardware for current API's they will kind of have to do it on AMD's terms this time,thats probably why they have been so desperate to show that their hardware supports a "higher" feature level then AMD in DX12 ,trying to gain back some control over the direction of Game development.
In any event people bought the 970/980 series and Nvidia made more money and increased market share to 80%.
I would have to believe that if AMD could have done the same, they would of, there are in business to make money after all.
It's not really a trend. Just something that's happening now. Amd/ati was always quick to drop their previous stuff, but now they've stuck with gcn hardware with only minor changes.What is obvious is that trends are clear: if you want the best day one performance and you don't mind buying a new card every two years Nvidia is your answer, if you don't buy games day one and you plan to keep a card three years plus buy AMD.
I think it's fair to say "Nvidia cards have better performance at launch, and for some people more performance year one is worth falling behind later on,"
With that said, I don't like the theory that Nvidia falling behind over time is ok because "everyone has to buy a new card which keeps Nvidia in business." Or when people throw out some assumption that everyone is (or should be) upgrading every two or three years anyway, and if they don't they are a lessor gamer or something like that.
It is true that some 780 ti owners don't care that it tanks in new games because they have a 980 ti now, but I am not going to say "good job Nvidia, you got two sales instead of one." Graphics cards aren't a charity, I don't care about the profits of either company. I just want the best card for ME for the money.
What is obvious is that trends are clear: if you want the best day one performance and you don't mind buying a new card every two years Nvidia is your answer, if you don't buy games day one and you plan to keep a card three years plus buy AMD.
Each has their advantages, each has their downsides. I know for me for the next card I buy I want it to run games at decent settings at 1080p until the current consoles are completely replaced. Seeing as how that might be 2020 or beyond, I will be giving AMD a benefit of the doubt after buying Nvidia cards 90% of the time for over a decade.
There are people on this forum who still own 780Ti.
There are people who purchased GTX 970s who are NOT upgrading their GPUs. MOst people I know who have GTX 970s aren't upgrading... they just bought their GTX 970s. They expect it to last 3 years. Maybe 2017/2018 they'll upgrade.
Yes, we enthusiasts, we'll upgrade maybe sure.
And yes, hardware sites and those who don't know any better will of course praise whatever the popular thing is to praise.
My friend building a new pc will be using my HD7950. Not everyone will buy these new cards.... so yes, knowing how old architectures age is important to knowing the impact on a large part of the gaming base.
The GTX 970 was a great time to upgrade for a lot of people. Don't expect those people to upgrade to the GTX 1070 because they're all in love with Nvidia. They like their GPUs, but they don't think it should be upgraded every year. People bought those GTX 970s witht he perception of Nvidia quality. When they find out that the GTX 970 is neglected and read about AMD cards doing vastly better in 2017 when their GTX 970s go to meh, I expect that will have more backlash than kepler failing did.
Unless Pascal being similar to Maxwell helps Maxwell like GCN.
They better upgrade if they want to go 4K (or similar). The GPU isn't the only part of a computer build...5 years ago display resolutions weren't really going anywhere, but that has changed. If you want better than 1080P/1440p, next gen will be VERY useful for everyone, regardless of if they have a 980Ti today even.
So basically when games were made with the old consoles in mind the 780 ti crushed it, but when games are made with new consoles in mind the 780 ti falls behind?
To me the evidence in OP proves the " Maxwell effect."
There is more than enough information in this article to conclude that Nvidia has not neglected Kepler but is optimizing for Maxwell.
The 290x has improved, but in my opinion it should, AMD is still focused on the 390x which is the same card as the 290x with better cooling and more ram.
http://www.babeltechreviews.com/nvidia-forgotten-kepler-gtx-780-ti-vs-290x-revisited/view-all/
I'm going to ask you guys to please discuss the data in the linked article, not fight over if its a shill site, biased article, ect. ect. ect. :thumbsup:
Don't forget the OG Titan that was released the same year as the 290X
Sorry, I don't normally give in to fanboyism but that just astounds me, has there ever been another card to go up against 3 flagship GPUs across their competitors uarch changes?
Thats a serious question BTW I've only been into PC Hardware since about 2010.
Are you implying that if we had seen a node change AMD would have stopped optimizing for GCN1.0? they have released two architecture updates since then and even one to replace the 280x(380X is Tonga GCN 1.2) yet the 280x continues to pull further ahead from every card with which it competed to this day .
Hm the G80 (GTX8800) was relesed in 11/2006 and with slight tweaks went on to ward off the x1000 Series, the HD2000 Series and the HD3000 Series from ATI.Don't forget the OG Titan that was released the same year as the 290X
Sorry, I don't normally give in to fanboyism but that just astounds me, has there ever been another card to go up against 3 flagship GPUs across their competitors uarch changes?
Thats a serious question BTW I've only been into PC Hardware since about 2010.