Closers overrated? With link

[Lager]

Closers overrated?

 

[Lager]

What do you guys think of the article?

 

[conjur]

I think bumping 2 min. after you post is overrated

 

[JonTheBaller]

*agrees with article*

 

[pennylane]

Yeah they're overrated. Still, I think it's safer to say that "saves are more overrated than closers." Closers probably could be more useful if they came in in the late innings when there's a jam or something.

 

[JonTheBaller]

"And as for Gagne's new record? Well, congratulations big guy. But if a record really was significant, it wouldn't have been held by Jose Mesa."

LOL!

 

[pennylane]

Originally posted by: johnnytightlips
"And as for Gagne's new record? Well, congratulations big guy. But if a record really was significant, it wouldn't have been held by Jose Mesa."

LOL!

That was a good one.

 

[Spoooon]

Originally posted by: fanerman91

Originally posted by: johnnytightlips
"And as for Gagne's new record? Well, congratulations big guy. But if a record really was significant, it wouldn't have been held by Jose Mesa."

LOL!

That was a good one.

haha

 

[ElFenix]

all i know is billy wagner has a higher career K/9 inning ratio than any other pitcher ever. the only reason the astros are anywhere near where they are right now in record is because they don't lose in the last 3 innings. brad lidge, octavio dotel and billy wagner are all over 10 K/9 innings on the season. any one of them could probably do just as well as the other as the closer.

it shoudl be 2 runs for a save, tho

 

[RabidMongoose]

The Save is one of the most useless statistics. And yes, closers are overpaid & overrated. A good bullpen is important, but people really overrate a closer.

 

[CaseTragedy]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
The Save is one of the most useless statistics. And yes, closers are overpaid & overrated. A good bullpen is important, but people really overrate a closer.

 

[JawaJedi]

I don't think closers are overrated. Obviously not everyone can be a closer and few can be consistently successful at it, take Armando Benitez for example. But I do agree that the Save statistic is way overrated and I also agree that it needs an overhaul and what the article suggests seems viable.

 

[bradolson]

This article sounds similar to a section in the book Moneyball about the Oakland A's. Basically the A's would take a pitcher who was not previously a closer, put him in that spot, make him seem like he is a great closer because he was racking up saves (meaningless) and other teams would overvalue them and they could be traded for more than they were worth. Great book.

Brad

 

[Sid59]

Closers are supposedly the best relievers on the staff yet they are never brought into the game during crucial situations in the sixth or seventh inning, and only rarely in the eighth. The bases could be loaded with nobody out, a one-run lead, the heart of the order coming up and the smoke detectors blaring in the restrooms, but the closer isn't going anywhere near the mound.

oh so true.

 

[goldboyd]

Jusk ask "Boy Genius" Theo how well that bullpen by committee worked out for him.

 

[Topher]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
all i know is billy wagner has a higher career K/9 inning ratio than any other pitcher ever. the only reason the astros are anywhere near where they are right now in record is because they don't lose in the last 3 innings. brad lidge, octavio dotel and billy wagner are all over 10 K/9 innings on the season. any one of them could probably do just as well as the other as the closer.

it shoudl be 2 runs for a save, tho

And Billy Wagner throws with the WRONG hand!!!!! He's right-handed, but he throws with his left because he's had injuries to his right arm. How's that for ability!!! I can't even throw like a girl left-handed!

On another note, when's the last time a reliever earned a save by way of rule 10.20(3)(c)???

Rule 10.20

Rule 10.20 credits a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

 

[JonTheBaller]

^ LOL

 

[PlatinumGold]

I don't know if they are overrated or not, BUT did Mariano Rivera make a difference for the Yankees?

 

[NOSOUP4U]

jolly good indeed. I agree with said article 100%.

 

[spaceman]

Originally posted by: goldboyd
Jusk ask "Boy Genius" Theo how well that bullpen by committee worked out for him.

the bullpen by commitee could work.
epstein just had the wrong players.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: goldboyd
Jusk ask "Boy Genius" Theo how well that bullpen by committee worked out for him.

And what about all of the other times a bullpen by committee approach worked well? To have a good bullpen by committee, you actually had to have good relievers.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
I don't know if they are overrated or not, BUT did Mariano Rivera make a difference for the Yankees?

Of course he made a difference.

 

[Lager]

AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Epstein! Suppan and Sauderback are worthless! They actually worsened our chance at the wild card!!!!!!

 

[jonnyjack]

Originally posted by: Topher
On another note, when's the last time a reliever earned a save by way of rule 10.20(3)(c)???

Rule 10.20

Rule 10.20 credits a pitcher with a save when he meets all three of the following conditions:
(1) He is the finishing pitcher in a game won by his club; and
(2) He is not the winning pitcher; and
(3) He qualifies under one of the following conditions:
(a) He enters the game with a lead of no more than three runs and pitches for at least one inning; or
(b) He enters the game, regardless of the count, with the potential tying run either on base, or at bat, or on deck (that is, the potential tying run is either already on base or is one of the first two batsmen he faces); or
(c) He pitches effectively for at least three innings. No more than one save may be credited in each game.

it happens a couple times a year. i check every box score every night since i play fantasy baseball and the most recent one i think was by jose jimenez of the rockies. here is the ESPN box score. perfect example why the save is overrated. he pitched 4 innings, gave up one run and the final score was 16-4! (he entered the game bottom of the 6th with the score 12-4)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=230803123

 

[PoPPeR]

I agree, but I also think the closers spot has to be held by a certain person. People deem the 9th inning as the most phsychologically intense inning, since it's the "last chance" and supposedly the adrenalin is pumpin. Whether that's true or not, that's the way the 9th inning is portrayed and so you need someone that can overcome those physchological effects and basically yeah, go through an inning without blowing a lead.