Colin Powell speaks out!!!!

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard this before from conservatives. Please explain what leftward lurch the GOP has gone through. I am confused by this.

Spending like idiots? Increasing the size of government? That left enough for you?

The GOP put up George Bush in 2000, who is to me, the most conservative president we had in my lifetime (38 yrs old)...

38 years old and still clueless. How sad.


The Republicans moved way to the left fiscally, and even further to the right socially. Exactly the opposite of what they would need to do to regain any political standing.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

The Republicans moved way to the left fiscally, and even further to the right socially. Exactly the opposite of what they would need to do to regain any political standing.

Barry Goldwater wouldn't recognize the Republican Party as it stands today and he might not even be a member of it.

 

[retrospooty]

.... crap

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: retrospooty
I have heard this before from conservatives. Please explain what leftward lurch the GOP has gone through. I am confused by this.

Spending like idiots? Increasing the size of government? That left enough for you?

The GOP put up George Bush in 2000, who is to me, the most conservative president we had in my lifetime (38 yrs old)...

38 years old and still clueless. How sad.


The Republicans moved way to the left fiscally, and even further to the right socially. Exactly the opposite of what they would need to do to regain any political standing.

I agree its the exact opposite of what they need to do. I guess I was really thinking socially, not fiscally, since it is the social conservatives and social issues that have been at the forefront of the GOP for the past generation. That is the face they put forward, those are the issues they talk about so that is how I see them.

thanks though for the unwarranted insult. It makes me feel better about being liberal knowing how narrow minded and vicious conservatives can be.

 

[quest55720]

Powell should join the democratic party as he is a believer in the Obama big spending big government policies. I want the GOP to purge all the big spenders from the party. The party is in shambles right now because Bush pushed the party way way to far left fiscally. Getting rid of Specter was a nice start to getting rid of the big spenders.

 

[techs]

I don't remember the exact name Powell quoted, but he pointed out he sits on the Republican Policy Council and Cheney doesn't
Hmmm. Powell sits on Republican Policy Council, Cheney is considered the most hated and failed VP ever.
Which one is still a Republican?

 

[Lemon law]

As OP on this thread, I am well aware of both charges made against Powell on this thread. (1) As initial army point man on Mei Lei he tried to cover it up. (2) He was salesman for the Iraq war. And they are both serious charges and I am not sure if I can mount a defense given what I know.

But we also have to understand that Colin Powell is somewhat the quintessential organization man, and at Mei Llei he may have been dispatched too early for the facts to be in. In terms of Iraq, he too early on, swallowed the Rumsfeld Cheney faked intel hook line and sinker, I think the Powell failing was the it was inconceivable that anyone on his side would lie to him. But for the record, once Powell learned the truth, he manned up and publically apologized to the UN for being party to a falsehood. Although Powell carried the title of Secretary of State, early on, in the GWB administration, he lost out the the Cheney Rumsfeld Rice cabal, and for all practical purposes Condi Rice acted as de facto Secretary of State in the first term of GWB. In term two, Powell was
not retained by GWB&co, basically fired on the principle of one good apple could spoil a whole barrel of rotten ones. But in GWB term two, the name Colin Powell kept coming back up, as the fellow who defending his people from bullying by John Bolton, and other examples of his integrity in term one. And while Colin Powell suffered in silence, it was others who came to his defense. Maybe some of you people did not notice, but I sure did.

But on past threads on Colin Powell, I have gone on record as saying the same basic thing, Colin Powell may not be perfect, but he has a long record of public service, and after being shamefully used by GWB&co, I for one would like to see him have that chance to, once again, prove he has the right stuff as an American and a Republican. As a partisan democrat, I wish he were a democrat, but he has chosen to be a member of team GOP, and loyalty and integrity is something that is Powell's long suit. Those virtues are not a monopoly of any party, and I have to respect that in somewhat of a self made man.

 

[retrospooty]

It sounds to me the republicans don't even know what a republican is anymore. One one side you have the fiscal conservatives, which represent the traditional Barry Goldwater republicans. Philosophically they have very great ideas. On the other hand, you have the George Bush, Sarah Palin right wing religious nutjobs that took over the party. And lets not even get into what paranoid nutjobs hannity and beck are.

So is a party what it's traditional philosophy is, or is a party what elements have taken over? to me "taken over" indicates what they are.

For example, hypothetically if the KKK took over the dem party. The dem party would not be what they are now, they would be the white supremacist party. If the catholic church and nembla took over the dem party, they would then be the child molester party.

In other words, you are what you are, not what you used to be.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: EXman

Colin is a Benedict Arnold to the GOP.

Which makes him a hero to the majority of real Americans. :thumbsup:

 

[dali71]

I love it when Democrats try to give Republicans advice on how to fix the party. Imagine Intel giving AMD advice on how to be more competitive. I'm sure it would be totally unbiased and only given to make them a stronger adversary. :roll:

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: dali71
I love it when Democrats try to give Republicans advice on how to fix the party. Imagine Intel giving AMD advice on how to be more competitive. I'm sure it would be totally unbiased and only given to make them a stronger adversary. :roll:

OK then, what is your advise to the reps?

It seems the consensus is to dump the social conservatives/religious right. How does your plan differ?

 

[Lemon law]

I don't know if I can totally agree with the retrospooty take the GOP must dump the social conservatives and the religious right, as it is, that constituency
makes up about 25% of the GOP electorate, its too large a part to lose. But when a too powerful 25% is being allowed to alienate the larger 75% of the GOP electorate, its a question balance and therein lies the rub. And until the larger more moderate elements of the GOP reassert control, a house divided cannot stand, especially since that 25% of the so called radical right of the GOP has led the GOP to two crushing elections defeats in 11/08 and 11/08.

Maybe dali71 is correct, democrats cannot advise the GOP, but retrospooty is also correct, its dali71's responsibility to lay his plan on the table, especially since a moderate republican named Colin Powell has laid his plan on the table.

And I should also note, a self proclaimed GOP member without portfolio named Limbaugh has also laid out his plan, advocating 25% of the GOP should purge out 75% of its electorate.

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Hopefully he will win over the GOP in the long run. The likes of Cheney and Fatbaugh will ensure that the Republicans slowly fade into irrelevance. I would like to be able to vote for them again once they regain their collective sanity.

Yeah, "win over the GOP" by supporting the likes of BHO last fall... :roll:

Perhaps like minded folks, like yourself, should create the Conservative Party and allow the GOP to fall into the ashes....

As opposed to people like Powell who claims to want to be a R but supports the other side? Yep - any day of the week I'd choose Conservatives over milk toast supposed Republicans

This might be a long shot but I'll give it a try anyway...

Maybe he was supporting the person that he believed would be best for American regardless of party affiliation?

I know that someone like you will have a hard time understanding that because you would rather the country be burnt to the ground instead of the opposition actually do something positive for it...but not everyone can be as "win at all costs" like you, Cheney, Limbaugh, Hannity, Colture, etc.

WOW...that's some really nice company you keep.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I don't know if I can totally agree with the retrospooty take the GOP must dump the social conservatives and the religious right, as it is, that constituency
makes up about 25% of the GOP electorate, its too large a part to lose. But when a too powerful 25% is being allowed to alienate the larger 75% of the GOP electorate, its a question balance and therein lies the rub. And until the larger more moderate elements of the GOP reassert control, a house divided cannot stand, especially since that 25% of the so called radical right of the GOP has led the GOP to two crushing elections defeats in 11/08 and 11/08.

Maybe dali71 is correct, democrats cannot advise the GOP, but retrospooty is also correct, its dali71's responsibility to lay his plan on the table, especially since a moderate republican named Colin Powell has laid his plan on the table.

And I should also note, a self proclaimed GOP member without portfolio named Limbaugh has also laid out his plan, advocating 25% of the GOP should purge out 75% of its electorate.

I meant more dump their viewpoint more than the actual people. In reality tehy would never "dump" a group like that, but they could shy away from the values. Meaning, what they would/should do in my opinion is concentrate on the traditional republican values of small govt. low tax, business friendly environment and govt. staying out of people's lives.

Forget about anti-choice,anti-gay and prayer in church type issues. As long as the candidate was pro choice, pro gay marriage and against mixing govt. and religion I would seriously consider voting republican, as I am sure many other dems would.

Imagine that, a fiscally conservative candidate that was pro choice, pro gay marriage and against mixing govt. and religion. sounds like a winner to me.

Still waiting for dali71's plan (or any other die hard republican for that matter)

 

[Nitemare]

Read his book and have much respect for the man. It was a shame how the GOP dragged him down.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: retrospooty

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I don't know if I can totally agree with the retrospooty take the GOP must dump the social conservatives and the religious right, as it is, that constituency
makes up about 25% of the GOP electorate, its too large a part to lose. But when a too powerful 25% is being allowed to alienate the larger 75% of the GOP electorate, its a question balance and therein lies the rub. And until the larger more moderate elements of the GOP reassert control, a house divided cannot stand, especially since that 25% of the so called radical right of the GOP has led the GOP to two crushing elections defeats in 11/08 and 11/08.

Maybe dali71 is correct, democrats cannot advise the GOP, but retrospooty is also correct, its dali71's responsibility to lay his plan on the table, especially since a moderate republican named Colin Powell has laid his plan on the table.

And I should also note, a self proclaimed GOP member without portfolio named Limbaugh has also laid out his plan, advocating 25% of the GOP should purge out 75% of its electorate.

I meant more dump their viewpoint more than the actual people. In reality tehy would never "dump" a group like that, but they could shy away from the values. Meaning, what they would/should do in my opinion is concentrate on the traditional republican values of small govt. low tax, business friendly environment and govt. staying out of people's lives.

Forget about anti-choice,anti-gay and prayer in church type issues. As long as the candidate was pro choice, pro gay marriage and against mixing govt. and religion I would seriously consider voting republican, as I am sure many other dems would.

Imagine that, a fiscally conservative candidate that was pro choice, pro gay marriage and against mixing govt. and religion. sounds like a winner to me.

Still waiting for dali71's plan (or any other die hard republican for that matter)

I am a social moderate and would like to see a more socially moderate GOP. I know it will never happen because the GOP needs the fundies to win elections. With how fast congress and the president are spending us into bankruptcy I could care less about social issues. I just want to see real fiscal conservatives in office no matter the cost. People who will have the guts to make real cuts in spending to balance the budget and down the road a surplus to start paying back the debt. This government takes in way more than enough money. There has been a spending problem since 2000 when Bush took over. We are watching generational theft right now by both Bush and Obama.

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: quest55720

There has been a spending problem since 2000 when Bush took over. We are watching generational theft right now by both Bush and Obama.

Agreed, but with the exception of the last few of Clinton's 8 years there has been a budget problem since Reagan.

http://www.factcheck.org/elect...istory_yes_and_no.html

 

[RightIsWrong]

Originally posted by: quest55720
Powell should join the democratic party as he is a believer in the Obama big spending big government policies. I want the GOP to purge all the big spenders from the party. The party is in shambles right now because Bush pushed the party way way to far left fiscally. Getting rid of Specter was a nice start to getting rid of the big spenders.

There wouldn't be a party left if they did that.

 

[Siddhartha]

Even though lots of Repubilcans voted for Mr Obama on Nov 2008 and even if Mr Powell could show the GOP how to become the majority party for the next 30 years.

I doubt the GOP will ever openly listen to him because he supported a Democrat in the last presidential election.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
Even though lots of Repubilcans voted for Mr Obama on Nov 2008 and even if Mr Powell could show the GOP how to become the majority party for the next 30 years.

I doubt the GOP will ever openly listen to him because he supported a Democrat in the last presidential election.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But Siddhartha also fails to note the Powell record of supporting Carter over Ford, if I were merely partisan, how could I respect a Powell who supported Ronny one and two? At the end of the day, some people are sometimes wrong, people like Cheney and Limbaugh are always wrong.

 

[smashp]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY


Again, you people keep trying to claim the GOP has gone "right" but that's just not true the last 8 years. Yes, some in the GOP have woken up since Nov and are trying to return the party to it's Conservative roots since the lurch leftward has ended up losing elections and being destructive to America. But sure, you people can continue to call for more milk toast politicians for you in your self proclaimed "center". :roll:

I love that the reason that the "Conservative Party" lost is because they "lurched to the Left"....

Maybe thats because your own Party even knows that the BS they spread is worthless drivel for the small brains and only will attract the 20% or so of the population that enjoy discussing the scientific merits of Creationism while tea-Bagging each other.

I challenge the "Conservative" movement to separate them selves from the Republican party and the GOP.

Then it will be hilarious to watch them Fail 100% on their Own merits and not have so called RINO's to blame for losing. Put "conservatism" as its defined now out there for the people to Decide. Go ahead, show us how "conservatives" can take some personal responsibility for their ideological failures

 

[LegendKiller]

I'd love to see the Repuglican party schism into the social conservative Religofascists and the Republicans. Then we can move on with our lives after the Religofascists are marginalized and we get some budget hawks and real Republicans in charge. Maybe Powell can cull some of the real Republicans out of the barrel and put together a good coalition.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: Phokus
I didn't want to make a new thread for this, but this is the party of limbaugh... contrast that with Colin Powell's class:

CALLER: I just wanna say, Obama is a lot smarter than you folks give him credit for. You guys were on a roll, I have to admit, with all those tea parties. Everything was rolling along, the Republicans were gaining momentum. And he managed to change your entire conversational focus. And you let those three hundred thousand people ?

LEVIN: My God. He?s so smart. His own party voted against him on Guantanamo Bay. How stupid was that, Cindy? His own party refused to fund the closing of Guantanamo Bay.

CALLER. Yeah but you know he can just move those people over here anyway. He?s already doing it with the one guy.

LEVIN: Yeah, sure, he can do whatever he wants. Let me ask you a question. Why do you hate this country?

CALLER: No, I love this country.

LEVIN: (angrily shouting) I SAID WHY DO YOU HATE MY COUNTRY?WHY DO YOU HATE MY CONSTITUTION? WHY DO YOU HATE MY DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE? You just said it. He can blow off Congress. He can do whatever he wants, right?

CALLER: Well, he seems to, he just moved (inaudible).

LEVIN: Answer me this, are you a married woman? Yes or no?

CALLER: Yes.

LEVIN: Well I don?t know why your husband doesn?t put a gun to his temple. Get the hell out of here.

Rightwing Talk Radio.txt

http://www.newmajority.com/Sho...43a6-b85b-ac55624827e4

Yes, this from Phokus, who got a time-out for saying things like:

Originally posted by: Phokus
I honestly believe the world would be a better place if all republicans just dropped dead right now.

And? It was a fact, not mean spirited in the least. You guys should stop proving that point with your morally bankrupt support for torture (among other things)

 

[Siddhartha]

I have trouble imaging the GOP throwing out major constituents of their base. I can not think of any examples of this happening in recent history.

I can see these groups leaving the party like the Southern Democrats became Republicans over Civil Rights.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
I have trouble imaging the GOP throwing out major constituents of their base. I can not think of any examples of this happening in recent history.

I can see these groups leaving the party like the Southern Democrats became Republicans over Civil Rights.

The GOP is up the creek without a paddle... they can't alienate their southern white evangelicals, while at the same time, catering to them alienates lots of other sub groups that they'll need to reach if they want to stay relevant (i.e. the youth, hispanics, etc.).

The GOP will be a regional party for a long time to come