College counselors are stupid

[jmcoreymv]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
And anybody who's been to college knows that's not even remotely close to the actual amount. I've gotten A's and B's in classes (not PE classes either) where I've done an average of 5-10 minutes of homework a night. Junior colleges are way different.

5-10 minutes studying for a test? No wonder you failed.

If you pay attention in class, 5-10 minutes to review the material should be fine.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Yes I do need 15 credits. I need 45 credits to graduate and anything less in the next 3 quarters will leave me taking summer classes and graduating and trying to transfer to a University late. I'm on a schedule here. My main point is that I screwed up Spring quarter, but showed that I could do much better in summer quarter. She wants me to do the same in fall quarter, but I say that's stupid because I've already shown her that I can handle it. Just 1 slip-up.

There might not be a need for being on that schedule, but I'll give that to you. Next question, do you really NEED to work that much?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Imp
To get suspended definately means the GPA was too low, but it doesn't have to mean more than 1 class was failed. At my College, you get put on probation for a 55-60% average, but 'suspended' for 50-55% and less. Anyways, the counsellor is definately trying to be helpful, and it's pretty stupid to call her/him stupid. I fuxxor3d a whole semester during first year due to lack of motivation and WoW (addiction). Came back last year to be among the top quarter of the class.

heh yeap i speak from experience unfortunately. one semester i ended up in the hospital for a few weeks with a collapsed lung and lost a lot of school. they put me on probation for one semester. came back next semester and got almost all A's.

i was lucky the school was on my side. then again i was in the hospital and could prove it heh.

though my counselor didn't say take part time classes. in fact he wanted me to take more then the 12 (i have a hard time with more then 14) i was taking. he wanted me to take 15-16 so i could graduate on time. pft. i didn't care about that

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: jmcoreymv
If you pay attention in class, 5-10 minutes to review the material should be fine.

Ha. Not for memorization classes. Did you ever hear about people in med school? 5-10 minutes? Heck, even if it was possible, would you want to know that your doctor only did 5-10 minutes of homework studying your problem?

It takes me more than 5-10 minutes just to read the textbook. But maybe you are a great fast-reader (for the most part the rest of us cannot read 400 pages of an intense engineering textbook in just 5-10 minutes a night).

 

[jmcoreymv]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: jmcoreymv
If you pay attention in class, 5-10 minutes to review the material should be fine.

Ha. Not for memorization classes. Did you ever hear about people in med school? 5-10 minutes?

That's a good point. I've never had to deal with those...

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Did you guys not read the whole 45 hours a week thing? It's ridiculous. No class gives that much homework. I've proven I can take more than 6 credits at a time without any problem. Like I said, it has nothing to do with my job, just me not being motivated to do the homework. But she continues to use my job as an excuse to downsize my credits.

What? The norm is 1.5-2 hours of homework for every hour you spend in class. So 10 hours of homework a week for a 5 hour class sounds about right.

And anybody who's been to college knows that's not even remotely close to the actual amount. I've gotten A's and B's in classes (not PE classes either) where I've done an average of 5-10 minutes of homework a night. Junior colleges are way different.

ahh wait until you hit a real college.

Yes I know. And I don't plan on having a job while I'm in real college.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Yes I do need 15 credits. I need 45 credits to graduate and anything less in the next 3 quarters will leave me taking summer classes and graduating and trying to transfer to a University late. I'm on a schedule here. My main point is that I screwed up Spring quarter, but showed that I could do much better in summer quarter. She wants me to do the same in fall quarter, but I say that's stupid because I've already shown her that I can handle it. Just 1 slip-up.

There might not be a need for being on that schedule, but I'll give that to you. Next question, do you really NEED to work that much?

Tuition costs 900 dollars for 15 credits (ridiculous for a JC if you ask me). Books are another few hundred. Times that by 3 plus a car payment (and it's not a very nice car), gas, insurance, and food. I live at home so I don't pay rent, but I have to pay for everything else. Plus I need to keep saving because real college is going to be expensive and I'd like to do it on as little loans as possible.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
and I'd like to do it on as little loans as possible.

That right there is your fundamental problem. Yes, it is a good idea to get through college with a minimal loan debt. But don't take that idea too far. I've seen many people ruin their entire lives trying to minimize college loan debt.

The most extreme example is a person I tutored for a couple years. He is now ~40, still working on his first bachelor's degree. He's been taking classes full time since highschool and has yet to get a degree. He was kicked out of my department after 10 years (exceeding the length of time to get a degree), and about 5 years later he was let back in. Still he has been back in the department for ~5 years and still hasn't graduated. Why? He wants to work full time as well in his own lawn business. The work interferes so much with his schooling that he repeatedly fails. He'll never get a job with that transcript. His pursuit of no student loans has effectively put him in this limbo state for the rest of his life. He has spent 20+ years working at near minimum wage so that he won't have a tiny loan that he could pay back quickly if he had worked at $50+ an hour with a degree.

A few thousand in student loans now, will allow you to do well in school, to fully enjoy the best years of your life, etc. Don't be too worried about loans. You went to community college, that is a big sacrifice already to save money. Don't go overboard.

Think about your entire life as a whole. Is it worth it to work 10 hours at near minimum wage now, so that you don't have to work 1 hour at $50+ an hour after college to pay off a loan?

 

[sandorski]

I dunno how suspensions work, but must ask the question: Does this counsellor have the power to lift/maintain the suspension?

If "yes", expect more drama for your decision. You better have a good comeback as to why your defiance on this matter and don't be surprised if you're toast if you f*** up again. You're still young, don't blow everything because you're in too much of a rush. I'd just do the 6 credits, be safe, then when proving myself get back to a full load. Doing it this way will save your a** if you f*** up again somewhere else down the line, most likely.

 

[AWWWCRAP]

Now this is coming from me, an OFFICIAL COLLEGE COUNSELOR!

I have read all the comments and I have come up with the following points...

1) blanconino, you are not telling the full story. I have seen many students like you come in with this problem. Your transcripts Are Not due to one semester. The transcripts I see are usually decorated with some "D?s" and "F?s? but also with "W?s" "I?s" and "IP?s". So people who are reading this forum, please give me some credit for what I'm talking about and look more closely to this argument. I don't know if blanco will try to lie just to win this argument but you cannot go on academic probation just for one semester. The computer will deny you if there is more to it than that. And yes, the kind of people who walk in my office are partiers with their cap tipped backwards, goatee, & saggy pants. I?m glad that he at least admitted that.


2) there are a few quite talented scholars like acemcmac and mugs that can carry a life like that and still maintain good grades. But they are the lucky few. The majority of the people cannot do that. 9-12 units without working is what the average student can handle. These are stats. Why do you think we developed a computerized "registration hold" for all campuses? Because we are trying to prevent you from f---king up your transcript to the point that other schools don't even want to talk to you. Once you get any of the above letters in your transcripts, they are there to stay & other schools will look at them!

3) forget about what you're counselor told you about the homework hours. Here is another statistical fact for the average person...
a) if they are working 40 hours a week, then 1 class (three units) should be taken for that semester.
b) if 30 hours working, then 1-2 classes (three - six units).
c) if 20 hours working, then 2- 3 classes ( six - nine units).
d) if 8-10 hours working, then 3-4 classes (9-12 units).

4) if I was that counselor I would have done the same for that semester. If you would do well, I would allow you to take one more class the following semester. The goal is to find what your limit load is because we fully understand that everybody is different. In your case, the counselor wants you to do TWO semester's. Just by that I see red flags with your story.

5) blanconino, I can understand your frustration, but she is in the right. You must be in your early twenties and you are new to the college game. Like all guys in their twenties, you want to finish college fast, get the job, and make the bling-bling. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.... that's fantasyland stuff! The reality is that it takes many years to complete an education. It took me 11 years to complete my master's degree, then another year to find a job. That's what the majority of people have to go through.
Stop being in such a rush and play the game smart. Especially that you are planning to transfer to a four-year college you need the Best grades as possible. You Need to meet more than the minimum requirement for a good school to accept you.
Even if it takes you until the age of 40, remember that you still have 25-30+ years to work. People are living longer and therefore working at least to their late sixties to early seventies. Another statistical fact and I am witnessing that myself at my own job.
If your parents are giving you beef to get out of school fast so that you can move out, you tell them what I said. And remember? PATIENTS IS THE KEY!

Nuff said, God has spoken!

 

[letdown427]

I vote /thread after that one. :beer:s all round.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: AWWWCRAP
Now this is coming from me, an OFFICIAL COLLEGE COUNSELOR!

I have read all the comments and I have come up with the following points...

1) blanconino, you are not telling the full story. I have seen many students like you come in with this problem. Your transcripts Are Not due to one semester. The transcripts I see are usually decorated with some "D?s" and "F?s? but also with "W?s" "I?s" and "IP?s". So people who are reading this forum, please give me some credit for what I'm talking about and look more closely to this argument. I don't know if blanco will try to lie just to win this argument but you cannot go on academic probation just for one semester. The computer will deny you if there is more to it than that. And yes, the kind of people who walk in my office are partiers with their cap tipped backwards, goatee, & saggy pants. I?m glad that he at least admitted that.


2) there are a few quite talented scholars like acemcmac and mugs that can carry a life like that and still maintain good grades. But they are the lucky few. The majority of the people cannot do that. 9-12 units without working is what the average student can handle. These are stats. Why do you think we developed a computerized "registration hold" for all campuses? Because we are trying to prevent you from f---king up your transcript to the point that other schools don't even want to talk to you. Once you get any of the above letters in your transcripts, they are there to stay & other schools will look at them!

3) forget about what you're counselor told you about the homework hours. Here is another statistical fact for the average person...
a) if they are working 40 hours a week, then 1 class (three units) should be taken for that semester.
b) if 30 hours working, then 1-2 classes (three - six units).
c) if 20 hours working, then 2- 3 classes ( six - nine units).
d) if 8-10 hours working, then 3-4 classes (9-12 units).

4) if I was that counselor I would have done the same for that semester. If you would do well, I would allow you to take one more class the following semester. The goal is to find what your limit load is because we fully understand that everybody is different. In your case, the counselor wants you to do TWO semester's. Just by that I see red flags with your story.

5) blanconino, I can understand your frustration, but she is in the right. You must be in your early twenties and you are new to the college game. Like all guys in their twenties, you want to finish college fast, get the job, and make the bling-bling. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.... that's fantasyland stuff! The reality is that it takes many years to complete an education. It took me 11 years to complete my master's degree, then another year to find a job. That's what the majority of people have to go through.
Stop being in such a rush and play the game smart. Especially that you are planning to transfer to a four-year college you need the Best grades as possible. You Need to meet more than the minimum requirement for a good school to accept you.
Even if it takes you until the age of 40, remember that you still have 25-30+ years to work. People are living longer and therefore working at least to their late sixties to early seventies. Another statistical fact and I am witnessing that myself at my own job.
If your parents are giving you beef to get out of school fast so that you can move out, you tell them what I said. And remember? PATIENTS IS THE KEY!

Nuff said, God has spoken!

The reason I was in there was because I had been on academic probation for having under a 2.0 accumulative GPA for 2 quarters. The first quarter I came back (after having quit school entirely and not caring enough to drop the classes I were in and got F's in them) they didn't offer the classes I had failed..and even though I got all B's that quarter, it didn't bring up my GPA from the 3 F's I'd gotten. To me, that is bogus and shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

 

[kranky]

Eventually you'll realize they are right. Unfortunately, your transcript may look like a train wreck by then.

 

[Babbles]

I think BlancoNino needs to swallow his pride and listen to good advice.

 

[potato28]

Originally posted by: LoKe
So?

 

[homestarmy]

You failed classes when you took a full load.

You got A's when you took two classes.

What is she supposed to think?

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: AWWWCRAP
Now this is coming from me, an OFFICIAL COLLEGE COUNSELOR!

I have read all the comments and I have come up with the following points...

1) blanconino, you are not telling the full story. I have seen many students like you come in with this problem. Your transcripts Are Not due to one semester. The transcripts I see are usually decorated with some "D?s" and "F?s? but also with "W?s" "I?s" and "IP?s". So people who are reading this forum, please give me some credit for what I'm talking about and look more closely to this argument. I don't know if blanco will try to lie just to win this argument but you cannot go on academic probation just for one semester. The computer will deny you if there is more to it than that. And yes, the kind of people who walk in my office are partiers with their cap tipped backwards, goatee, & saggy pants. I?m glad that he at least admitted that.


2) there are a few quite talented scholars like acemcmac and mugs that can carry a life like that and still maintain good grades. But they are the lucky few. The majority of the people cannot do that. 9-12 units without working is what the average student can handle. These are stats. Why do you think we developed a computerized "registration hold" for all campuses? Because we are trying to prevent you from f---king up your transcript to the point that other schools don't even want to talk to you. Once you get any of the above letters in your transcripts, they are there to stay & other schools will look at them!

3) forget about what you're counselor told you about the homework hours. Here is another statistical fact for the average person...
a) if they are working 40 hours a week, then 1 class (three units) should be taken for that semester.
b) if 30 hours working, then 1-2 classes (three - six units).
c) if 20 hours working, then 2- 3 classes ( six - nine units).
d) if 8-10 hours working, then 3-4 classes (9-12 units).

4) if I was that counselor I would have done the same for that semester. If you would do well, I would allow you to take one more class the following semester. The goal is to find what your limit load is because we fully understand that everybody is different. In your case, the counselor wants you to do TWO semester's. Just by that I see red flags with your story.

5) blanconino, I can understand your frustration, but she is in the right. You must be in your early twenties and you are new to the college game. Like all guys in their twenties, you want to finish college fast, get the job, and make the bling-bling. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.... that's fantasyland stuff! The reality is that it takes many years to complete an education. It took me 11 years to complete my master's degree, then another year to find a job. That's what the majority of people have to go through.
Stop being in such a rush and play the game smart. Especially that you are planning to transfer to a four-year college you need the Best grades as possible. You Need to meet more than the minimum requirement for a good school to accept you.
Even if it takes you until the age of 40, remember that you still have 25-30+ years to work. People are living longer and therefore working at least to their late sixties to early seventies. Another statistical fact and I am witnessing that myself at my own job.
If your parents are giving you beef to get out of school fast so that you can move out, you tell them what I said. And remember? PATIENTS IS THE KEY!

Nuff said, God has spoken!

The reason I was in there was because I had been on academic probation for having under a 2.0 accumulative GPA for 2 quarters. The first quarter I came back (after having quit school entirely and not caring enough to drop the classes I were in and got F's in them) they didn't offer the classes I had failed..and even though I got all B's that quarter, it didn't bring up my GPA from the 3 F's I'd gotten. To me, that is bogus and shouldn't even be taken into consideration.

The fact that you "didn't care enough" to drop the classes says just as much as if you'd taken the classes and failed them. I'm not trying to rashly attack your character here, as everyone makes dumb decisions, but this counselor sees dozens of people per semester in the same situation. Like others have mentioned, she's basing her decision on past experience and the little history she has regarding your performance; obviously she's going to err on the side of caution.

As for the people saying that it takes 5-10 minutes of preperation to pass a test/class: at the undergrad level, this can be very true. But passing a class and learning the material are two very different things. Getting an A in a class isn't nearly as important as actually remembering what it is that class was about, and remembering takes frequent rehearsal. So the decision is really yours as to exactly how much you'd like to get out of your education.

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Deeko
I take 17-20 credits a term, work 40-45 hours, and I'm the president of the volleyball team...and I still have a social life! Its not that big a deal. Maybe his school has some asinine policy of suspending you if you fail a class, that's just stupid.

And you failed a class. And no matter how you cut it, you have 40-45 hours less social life than people who aren't working full time.

Well to be fair, I failed on a technicality. I got a 0 on a test while I was away for volleyball nationals. But even still, failing ONE class in a college career does not mean you are inept and can't handle a college schedule, its one class out of what, 50-60 that you take?

40. Was it math class that you failed?

 

[allisolm]

Let's see if I have this straight...

BlancoNino is in junior college. His college is on the quarter system which means he needs approximately 90 quarter hrs to graduate. He has completed only half, which normally takes one year of fulltime attendance. While obtaining that half he quit school, failed to drop classes, failed 4 classes (despite the fact that he can get an A or a B with 5-10 minutes of homework a night), and failed to maintain over a 2.0 cumulative GPA for 2 consecutive quarters. Now, all of a sudden, he's on a tight schedule to graduate and everyone ought to recognize that and they're stupid for looking at his past performance (which is, by the way, the best predictor of future performance - just ask Dr. Phil ).

Did I miss anything?

I would listen to the counselor and not attempt a full load. You may have matured, but you certainly haven't wiped out several quarters of problems with 2 whole classes. Unless your college has grade forgiveness, you may have trouble getting into a university with your GPA anyway, and Bs probably aren't going to be enough to bring it up. You sound like you're headed down the right path so I wish you good luck!

 

[homestarmy]

Originally posted by: dullard
He wants to work full time as well in his own lawn business.

He has spent 20+ years working at near minimum wage so that he won't have a tiny loan that he could pay back quickly if he had worked at $50+ an hour with a degree.

Do you really think that someone makes minimum wage in their own lawn business?

Answer: No.

And do you automatically have a $50/hr job waiting for you when you get out of college?

Answer: No.

Please, get real, or at least close to it.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

I think all the information for the OP has been very nicely laid out for him in this thread, :beer: for those who took the time to give their advice

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: AWWWCRAP
Now this is coming from me, an OFFICIAL COLLEGE COUNSELOR!

I have read all the comments and I have come up with the following points...

1) blanconino, you are not telling the full story. I have seen many students like you come in with this problem. Your transcripts Are Not due to one semester. The transcripts I see are usually decorated with some "D?s" and "F?s? but also with "W?s" "I?s" and "IP?s". So people who are reading this forum, please give me some credit for what I'm talking about and look more closely to this argument. I don't know if blanco will try to lie just to win this argument but you cannot go on academic probation just for one semester. The computer will deny you if there is more to it than that. And yes, the kind of people who walk in my office are partiers with their cap tipped backwards, goatee, & saggy pants. I?m glad that he at least admitted that.


2) there are a few quite talented scholars like acemcmac and mugs that can carry a life like that and still maintain good grades. But they are the lucky few. The majority of the people cannot do that. 9-12 units without working is what the average student can handle. These are stats. Why do you think we developed a computerized "registration hold" for all campuses? Because we are trying to prevent you from f---king up your transcript to the point that other schools don't even want to talk to you. Once you get any of the above letters in your transcripts, they are there to stay & other schools will look at them!

3) forget about what you're counselor told you about the homework hours. Here is another statistical fact for the average person...
a) if they are working 40 hours a week, then 1 class (three units) should be taken for that semester.
b) if 30 hours working, then 1-2 classes (three - six units).
c) if 20 hours working, then 2- 3 classes ( six - nine units).
d) if 8-10 hours working, then 3-4 classes (9-12 units).

4) if I was that counselor I would have done the same for that semester. If you would do well, I would allow you to take one more class the following semester. The goal is to find what your limit load is because we fully understand that everybody is different. In your case, the counselor wants you to do TWO semester's. Just by that I see red flags with your story.

5) blanconino, I can understand your frustration, but she is in the right. You must be in your early twenties and you are new to the college game. Like all guys in their twenties, you want to finish college fast, get the job, and make the bling-bling. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.... that's fantasyland stuff! The reality is that it takes many years to complete an education. It took me 11 years to complete my master's degree, then another year to find a job. That's what the majority of people have to go through.
Stop being in such a rush and play the game smart. Especially that you are planning to transfer to a four-year college you need the Best grades as possible. You Need to meet more than the minimum requirement for a good school to accept you.
Even if it takes you until the age of 40, remember that you still have 25-30+ years to work. People are living longer and therefore working at least to their late sixties to early seventies. Another statistical fact and I am witnessing that myself at my own job.
If your parents are giving you beef to get out of school fast so that you can move out, you tell them what I said. And remember? PATIENTS IS THE KEY!

Nuff said, God has spoken!

i agree. only issue i have is with #1.

my 2nd semester of college i suffered a sever collapsed lung. i missed the 75% of the semester. Since i was in the hospital or at home on bed rest with other matters i missed the withdraw time for the class. needless to say i failed every class. They were supposed to automatically withdraw me but since it was in the computer i was in the hospital they didn't. grr

anyway when i went to register for next semester i couldn't. i had to speak to a counselor and prove i was in the hospital etc and she signed off on my next semesters classes..wich were the same as the one i missed. at least i only had to buy one book that year. And no i did not fail any classes the first semester.

it really didn't hurt that bad. i was able to continue school with success. only thing that really killed me was that i nearly lost my scholarship. i had to sign something stating if i did not maintain at least a B in all my classes then i would have to pay for it. considering it was out of state that would have sucked.

 

[sash1]

congrats, you were able to pass two classes at a junior college. listen to your counselor and only take two more classes, since that's clearly all the work you can handle.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: homestarmy

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Deeko
I take 17-20 credits a term, work 40-45 hours, and I'm the president of the volleyball team...and I still have a social life! Its not that big a deal. Maybe his school has some asinine policy of suspending you if you fail a class, that's just stupid.

And you failed a class. And no matter how you cut it, you have 40-45 hours less social life than people who aren't working full time.

Well to be fair, I failed on a technicality. I got a 0 on a test while I was away for volleyball nationals. But even still, failing ONE class in a college career does not mean you are inept and can't handle a college schedule, its one class out of what, 50-60 that you take?

40. Was it math class that you failed?

My degree requires 188 credits. The majority of my classes are 3 credits, with a few 4 credits thrown in there. Sounds like I was about right, dumbz.

oh, and awwcrap's stat #3 is really, really absurd.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: homestarmy
Do you really think that someone makes minimum wage in their own lawn business?

Answer: No.

And do you automatically have a $50/hr job waiting for you when you get out of college?

Answer: No.

Please, get real, or at least close to it.

No, there isn't a "wage" when you own your own business. However, while working with that guy for a couple of years I learned quite a bit about his business. He was earning fairly close to minimum wage on average. Some days he'd do better, some days he'd do worse. His degree was chemical engineering, if after a few years he wasn't making $50 an hour, then he was doing something quite wrong.

For other examples, modifiy the numbers if you wish. Many college students earn close to minimum wage during college. Many college students earn far more than minimum wage with their degree (if not, maybe they should reconsider that degree). My point still stands. Why work 5 hours at $6/hour before the degree instead of 1 hour at $30/hour after the degree. The exact numbers you use in the example do not alter my point at all.