Colleges and sexual assault

[pmv]

As far as I know not currently illegal in any jurisdiction in the United States but it should be. It is illegal in a number of other countries it is. There have been several cases in the UK over Rape by Deception, and there has been a few famous cases in Israel including one man that was convicted of Rape by Fraud for claiming he was a neurosurgeon, and another for claiming he was Jewish and unmarried.

That last one's not the best example (and I believe it got overturned on appeal). I mean, it opens up a whole other 'can of worms'. You look white, and sleep with a hard-line racist while failing to mention you had a black great-grandparent? Is that rape? Where does it end?

On the other hand there's the case here of undercover cops having relationships, and even children, with women they are spying on (for, frankly, trivial purposes, i.e. environmental protestors), all while never letting on about their real identity and pretending to be a completely different person. If the Israel case is rape, then the police here are surely complicit with multiple rape? The level of deception seems greater in this case than in the Israeli one.

 

[Starbuck1975]

You know that you are allowed to go to college more than once, right?

Here, let me cut off your leg, you can still be a figure skater. Isn't the whole premise of not locking up or otherwise crimilizing non violent drug offenders is that you've essentially ruined their lives.

 

[Jaskalas]

On a related note, this speaks towards the gravity of the harm done to the accused.

Half of US millennials would give up right vote to wipe out their student loans

 

[SMOGZINN]

On a related note, this speaks towards the gravity of the harm done to the accused.

Half of US millennials would give up right vote to wipe out their student loans

That is because most of them don't value their right to vote to begin with. Half of them would probably give it up for a big mac with fires, and the other half would require it be biggie sized first.

That last one's not the best example (and I believe it got overturned on appeal). I mean, it opens up a whole other 'can of worms'. You look white, and sleep with a hard-line racist while failing to mention you had a black great-grandparent? Is that rape? Where does it end?

This is the same as any type of fraud, it requires intent. Being wrong is not the same as lying to someone.

Here, let me cut off your leg, you can still be a figure skater. Isn't the whole premise of not locking up or otherwise crimilizing non violent drug offenders is that you've essentially ruined their lives.

Are you really trying to compare smoking a joint to rape?

 

[Starbuck1975]

Are you really trying to compare smoking a joint to rape?

No, I am comparing the liberal tendency to advocate leniency in the case of nonviolent drug offenders, but see nothing wrong with ruining a college kid's life and future job prospects over unsubstantiated allegations.

 

[SMOGZINN]

No, I am comparing the liberal tendency to advocate leniency in the case of nonviolent drug offenders, but see nothing wrong with ruining a college kid's life and future job prospects over unsubstantiated allegations.

The only way this statement can have any relevance to this discussion at all is if you think that non-violent recreational drug use is on a similar level to rape. Otherwise your argument is trying to talk about two very different things, and there is no reason to compare them.

 

[realibrad]

The only way this statement can have any relevance to this discussion at all is if you think that non-violent recreational drug use is on a similar level to rape. Otherwise your argument is trying to talk about two very different things, and there is no reason to compare them.

No, he is talking about unsubstantiated allegations not rape. Unless you are saying that it should be an automatic punishment if the alleged crime is larger.

 

[Starbuck1975]

The only way this statement can have any relevance to this discussion at all is if you think that non-violent recreational drug use is on a similar level to rape. Otherwise your argument is trying to talk about two very different things, and there is no reason to compare them.

That is not what I am saying. What needs clarification?

 

[SMOGZINN]

No, he is talking about unsubstantiated allegations not rape. Unless you are saying that it should be an automatic punishment if the alleged crime is larger.

If we are comparing unsubstantiated claims of drug use with unsubstantiated claims of rape then yes I think that we treat the more serious accusation with more gravity. Failing to remove a non-violent drug user will have few consequences, while the consequences failing to remove a rapist can be pretty high. We have a single person who might be harmed to an unknown amount if the accusation is false and many people that might be seriously harmed if the accusation is true. This is not a legal matter, this is a social one. In legal matters we protect the individual, in social ones we protect society and the institution.

Something to remember is that rape is a violation on par with a violent crime. It might not look violent from a third party, but it's aftermath is just as destructive to the individual.

 

[realibrad]

If we are comparing unsubstantiated claims of drug use with unsubstantiated claims of rape then yes I think that we treat the more serious accusation with more gravity. Failing to remove a non-violent drug user will have few consequences, while the consequences failing to remove a rapist can be pretty high. We have a single person who might be harmed to an unknown amount if the accusation is false and many people that might be seriously harmed if the accusation is true. This is not a legal matter, this is a social one. In legal matters we protect the individual, in social ones we protect society and the institution.

Something to remember is that rape is a violation on par with a violent crime. It might not look violent from a third party, but it's aftermath is just as destructive to the individual.

What do you mean by "more gravity"? You seem to be framing this as removing someone who we know is a rapist, but nobody is defending rapists. What people disagree with you on is defending the accused. This is also absolutely a legal matter. Not sure how you define law, but law can happen through social or governmental institutions. So to say this is not a legal matter is confusing unless you mean something else.

Also, are you advocating protecting society and institutions at the expense of others that are innocent? If so that is super shitty. Not sure why we do not protect everyone.

 

[Atreus21]

On a related note, this speaks towards the gravity of the harm done to the accused.

Half of US millennials would give up right vote to wipe out their student loans

They should give up their right to apply for any more loans instead.

 

[Starbuck1975]

On a related note, this speaks towards the gravity of the harm done to the accused.

Half of US millennials would give up right vote to wipe out their student loans

They want to give up a right most of them never exercise in return for debt forgiveness? Voting is the only real vehicle they have to achieve debt forgiveness, and they want to give it up.

 

[interchange]

A drug user poses far less threat to the community than a rapist. Still, the standard for any criminal case is due process and beyond reasonable doubt. Will never and should never change. But civil cases and non-judicial actions can and should have different standards that weigh protection of the accused against harm/potential for harm to the innocent.