Concealed carry weapon discussion

[K1052]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

You live in a carry state as it is. Do you walk around in a perpetual state of fear?
I can assure you that a number of people you interact daily with are carrying.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

I am armed, but not dangerous. I carry a gun for self defense only. A criminal carries a gun to assault innocent people. A VERY big difference.

You have every right to arm yourself... however, I strongly suggest you take note of statistical logic, rather than think everyone who is armed is dangerous. Law abiding gun owners are NOT the ones harming others.

You live in a world filled with armed criminals, and you fear law abiding gun owners. THAT, my liberal little friend, is irrational.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 3NF
Ok, so you have the right to arm yourself. But now I'm at a disadvantage, so does that mean I can carry a gun to protect myself from you? Really, the probability of you needing a gun to protect yourself from someone is the same as me needing a gun to protect myself from you. So with that stupid logic, everyone is now carrying a gun. That's genius!!

Human nature will never change? Nope, not with people like you alive, it sure won't change. I hope someone you care about finds your gun and does something stupid with it. If you *think* you need to carry a gun, it just means you're a fvcking pussy.

Quoted and bolded for stupidity.

I can't believe you could be so callous and bitter as to actually wish for that to happen to someone.

Oh, but having a gun in the first place isn't stupid? You epitomize the stupidity of mankind.

PS - I don't wish harm onto anyone. I was trying to make a point with that statement in that having a gun solves NOTHING!!

Didn't Amuse say that he was saved because he had a gun????? Sometimes I don't understand Anti-gunners... Why do they hate guns sooo much? Did they have some pot smoking, hippie parent preach to them day after day when they were younger that guns were the root of all evils and now they are brainwashed to think like that regardless of all the facts? Just boggles the mind..

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 3NF
Ok, so you have the right to arm yourself. But now I'm at a disadvantage, so does that mean I can carry a gun to protect myself from you? Really, the probability of you needing a gun to protect yourself from someone is the same as me needing a gun to protect myself from you. So with that stupid logic, everyone is now carrying a gun. That's genius!!

Human nature will never change? Nope, not with people like you alive, it sure won't change. I hope someone you care about finds your gun and does something stupid with it. If you *think* you need to carry a gun, it just means you're a fvcking pussy.

Quoted and bolded for stupidity.

I can't believe you could be so callous and bitter as to actually wish for that to happen to someone.

Oh, but having a gun in the first place isn't stupid? You epitomize the stupidity of mankind.

PS - I don't wish harm onto anyone. I was trying to make a point with that statement in that having a gun solves NOTHING!!

Didn't Amuse say that he was saved because he had a gun????? Sometimes I don't understand Anti-gunners... Why do they hate guns sooo much? Did they have some pot smoking, hippie parent preach to them day after day when they were younger that guns were the root of all evils and now they are brainwashed to think like that regardless of all the facts? Just boggles the mind..

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Why don't you blame your father and not the inanimate objects he used then?
Ironically the only one to show any unwarranted violent tendencies in this thread is you. I suggest you see someone about that.

 

[XNice]

Unfortunately 3NF, the "dangerous" part is your opinion or speculation and not fact. kthnxbye...

It's unfortunate tio have topics like this, because to truly understand the meaning of CWP, you need to actually try it. Due to the nature of this situation, it will be hard for a person to do so. So they are forced to base their opinions off of their own mental representation of the situation.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Sorry, but I CAN say for sure what I will do with my gun. I have something called "self control." I'm sorry your father lacked it and apparently passed that trait onto you.

Your father is not indicitive of even a tiny minority of legal gun owners.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Sorry, but I CAN say for sure what I will do with my gun. I have something called "self control." I'm sorry your father lacked it and apparently passed that trait onto you.

Your father is not indicitive of even a tiny minority of legal gun owners.

No you can't - if you could, you'd be "God".

Lack of self control - why, because I'm arguing a point with you? Or because I got pissed and wished you harm. Ohh, that's right - you don't do that.

Sorry, but I'll never agree with you gun lovers. So I guess we should end it by agreeing to disagree.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I DO care about the fact that in Utah(according to that guy who i responded to when i said "note to self") you cannot kick someone off your property for carrying a gun.

While I haven't read utah's state laws I would expect you could ask anyone to leave your property for any reason you wanted and have them picked up for trespassing if they refused. Some states take it a step further and make it an additional crime is you carry where signs are posted but I don't see any need for that. Ask a person to leave because they smell, have ugly hair, or have on a scary gun, call the cops if they dont.

not to mention, that MOST PEOPLE in general (Utah included) have RESPECT for other people AND THEIR RIGHTS. If I'm a cable TV repairmen, I'm probably not allowed to pack heat on the job (which means my company has a lockbox for me at work) and if I'm coming to your house, and you don't want me to...I'll leave it in the car. Why? Because I respect your right of private ownership. Don't think that Utah is a bunch of redneck pistol packing jerks who have a gun shoved down their pants everywhere they go....

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I DO care about the fact that in Utah(according to that guy who i responded to when i said "note to self") you cannot kick someone off your property for carrying a gun.

While I haven't read utah's state laws I would expect you could ask anyone to leave your property for any reason you wanted and have them picked up for trespassing if they refused. Some states take it a step further and make it an additional crime is you carry where signs are posted but I don't see any need for that. Ask a person to leave because they smell, have ugly hair, or have on a scary gun, call the cops if they dont.

not to mention, that MOST PEOPLE in general (Utah included) have RESPECT for other people AND THEIR RIGHTS. If I'm a cable TV repairmen, I'm probably not allowed to pack heat on the job (which means my company has a lockbox for me at work) and if I'm coming to your house, and you don't want me to...I'll leave it in the car. Why? Because I respect your right of private ownership. Don't think that Utah is a bunch of redneck pistol packing jerks who have a gun shoved down their pants everywhere they go....

If you're packing a concealed weapon, are you required to tell a homeowner that prior to entering their home?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 3NF
Ok, so you have the right to arm yourself. But now I'm at a disadvantage, so does that mean I can carry a gun to protect myself from you? Really, the probability of you needing a gun to protect yourself from someone is the same as me needing a gun to protect myself from you. So with that stupid logic, everyone is now carrying a gun. That's genius!!

Human nature will never change? Nope, not with people like you alive, it sure won't change. I hope someone you care about finds your gun and does something stupid with it. If you *think* you need to carry a gun, it just means you're a fvcking pussy.

Quoted and bolded for stupidity.

I can't believe you could be so callous and bitter as to actually wish for that to happen to someone.

Oh, but having a gun in the first place isn't stupid? You epitomize the stupidity of mankind.

PS - I don't wish harm onto anyone. I was trying to make a point with that statement in that having a gun solves NOTHING!!

Didn't Amuse say that he was saved because he had a gun????? Sometimes I don't understand Anti-gunners... Why do they hate guns sooo much? Did they have some pot smoking, hippie parent preach to them day after day when they were younger that guns were the root of all evils and now they are brainwashed to think like that regardless of all the facts? Just boggles the mind..

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

do you hate the knife also? do you ban knives from the home? do you get upset when you go to a resturant and see people useing them?


why blame the item. blame the man.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Sorry, but I CAN say for sure what I will do with my gun. I have something called "self control." I'm sorry your father lacked it and apparently passed that trait onto you.

Your father is not indicitive of even a tiny minority of legal gun owners.

No you can't - if you could, you'd be "God".

Lack of self control - why, because I'm arguing a point with you? Or because I got pissed and wished you harm. Ohh, that's right - you don't do that.

Sorry, but I'll never agree with you gun lovers. So I guess we should end it by agreeing to disagree.

I can say, without any doubt, that I will never use a gun, or any other object to harm another person unless they are trying to harm me, or another innocent person.

I don't need to be a "god" to say that.

Again, not everyone is your father. The story of your father is a story of an abusive criminal. I am not an abusive criminal. I have self control.

I am not a "gun lover." I view a gun as simply a tool.

 

[3NF]

Of course I blame the man, not the object. But the knife in the store has a different purpose - to cut your food. You could kill anyone with anything. I could kill you with a stapler if I really wanted to. The primary purpose of a gun, however, is to kill. At least that's the only purpose I see for it.

 

[XNice]

I actually love my guns. I love em almost as much as I love my computer. 3NF just doesn't understand the complexities of human law and won't. First Law is Self Preservation, the most important one. Anyhow, the only course of action is to get him to stop replying so we can get a fresh anti-gun view.

Originally posted by: 3NF
The primary purpose of a gun, however, is to kill. At least that's the only purpose I see for it.

He has rejected your reality and chosen his own.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: XNice
I actually love my guns. I love em almost as much as I love my computer. 3NF just doesn't understand the complexities of human lawand won't. The only course is to get him to stop replying so we can get a fresh anti-gun view.

I'm glad you love your guns. So what do you actually do with them?

 

[XNice]

I clean them, I bring them to the range to practice my hand eye coordination to supplement the practice I get from pc games. I also keep it on my waist while walking in my hood to give me a peace of mind that I didn't/wouldn't have while walking without. I also use it to scare off would be attackers.

I sometimes listen to rap music and point it at the mirror in an attempt to mimic what I watch on MTV.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I DO care about the fact that in Utah(according to that guy who i responded to when i said "note to self") you cannot kick someone off your property for carrying a gun.

While I haven't read utah's state laws I would expect you could ask anyone to leave your property for any reason you wanted and have them picked up for trespassing if they refused. Some states take it a step further and make it an additional crime is you carry where signs are posted but I don't see any need for that. Ask a person to leave because they smell, have ugly hair, or have on a scary gun, call the cops if they dont.

not to mention, that MOST PEOPLE in general (Utah included) have RESPECT for other people AND THEIR RIGHTS. If I'm a cable TV repairmen, I'm probably not allowed to pack heat on the job (which means my company has a lockbox for me at work) and if I'm coming to your house, and you don't want me to...I'll leave it in the car. Why? Because I respect your right of private ownership. Don't think that Utah is a bunch of redneck pistol packing jerks who have a gun shoved down their pants everywhere they go....

If you're packing a concealed weapon, are you required to tell a homeowner that prior to entering their home?

Not sure...I just wouldn't do it, as a matter of courtesy. Most CCW people I know have the same viewpoint.

Hey, maybe Utah has a higher gun death/lower violent crime rate because they put all the "vigilante gun toting" CCW holders who shot a violent offender in there....There is a relation of LEGAL GUN OWNERS to LOWER CRIME. Look at the stats, it's easy to see...Show me where legal CCW holders committed crimes with their weapons, show me where restricting guns has made me safer from violent crime?

 

[eleison]

Originally posted by: 3NF


No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Wow... IMHO, your irrational fear of guns now make sense to me.. speechless..

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: 3NF
Of course I blame the man, not the object. But the knife in the store has a different purpose - to cut your food. You could kill anyone with anything. I could kill you with a stapler if I really wanted to. The primary purpose of a gun, however, is to kill. At least that's the only purpose I see for it.

Yes, and when only criminals have firearms, law abiding citizens have no way to defend themselves.

Unless you can figure out a way to uninvent a very simple 500+ year old technology, I choose to maintain the ability to defend myself against it.

If you choose to remain defenseless, that's your choice.

 

[XNice]

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: 3NF


No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Wow... IMHO, your irrational fear of guns now make sense to me.. speechless..

/thread

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: XNice

Originally posted by: eleison

Originally posted by: 3NF


No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Wow... IMHO, your irrational fear of guns now make sense to me.. speechless..

/thread

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

 

[KingofCamelot]

Just to throw my hat into the ring...I think some of you are absolutely insane. I don't care if the law is with you, I would never want to be in the same room as some of you, especially with Amused.

I agree with JulesMaximus, that you have to look at this ****** logically. My personal opinion is that you should only shoot, especially to kill, if you have explicit first hand knowledge of whats going on.

1) Someone pulls a gun on you and threatens you. By all means, shoot the bastard.
2) Someone starts arguing with your friend while the two of you are next to each other, suddenly the guy pulls a gun on your friend and threatens him, but doesn't point at you. By all means, shoot the bastard.
3) You're walking down the street, and you hear a scream. You turn the corner and see one man on the ground, and another on top point a gun at him. STOP. Don't shoot the guy.

The way I see it, unless you know exactly what is going down, you aren't justified in shooting people. I'll tell you why. That last situation, where some of you, like Amused, would seemingly gladly put a bullet in guy, could go down in many different ways. The guy with the gun could be an undercover cop, a plain clothes cop, a store owner, or a fellow CCW permit holder neutralizing a guy who was commiting a violent crime. So, for those of you who opted to open fire, there are 4 outcomes where you killed a man for no reason. Hell, maybe its for an amateur video, maybe its for a TV show and you just didn't see the cameraman inside the shop. Maybe the gun is fake and its for Punked. There are too many variables for you to just shoot to kill someone.

So, in conclusion, if you have explicit first hand knowledge of what is going on, by all means excercise your right to shoot he bastard. Otherwise, in my mind you are not jusitifed because you are abandoning any rational judgement and just shooting. Cops rarely ever shoot to kill unless they have to, unlike some of you nuts who would shoot a bank robber as he walks down the bank steps, or put a bullet in a guy during a hostage situation. There is a reason that cops don't go in guns blazing unless they know exactly what is going on, and after they have given non-violent means a chance.

 

[ElMonoDelMar]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

I could care less if you want to pack or not. I'd just like for you to respect the RIGHTS of others who choose to do so.

Edit: The bold part seems to be the only smart thing you've said in this whole thread.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot
Just to throw my hat into the ring...I think some of you are absolutely insane. I don't care if the law is with you, I would never want to be in the same room as some of you, especially with Amused.

I agree with JulesMaximus, that you have to look at this ****** logically. My personal opinion is that you should only shoot, especially to kill, if you have explicit first hand knowledge of whats going on.

1) Someone pulls a gun on you and threatens you. By all means, shoot the bastard.
2) Someone starts arguing with your friend while the two of you are next to each other, suddenly the guy pulls a gun on your friend and threatens him, but doesn't point at you. By all means, shoot the bastard.
3) You're walking down the street, and you hear a scream. You turn the corner and see one man on the ground, and another on top point a gun at him. STOP. Don't shoot the guy.

The way I see it, unless you know exactly what is going down, you aren't justified in shooting people. I'll tell you why. That last situation, where some of you, like Amused, would seemingly gladly put a bullet in guy, could go down in many different ways. The guy with the gun could be an undercover cop, a plain clothes cop, a store owner, or a fellow CCW permit holder neutralizing a guy who was commiting a violent crime. So, for those of you who opted to open fire, there are 4 outcomes where you killed a man for no reason. Hell, maybe its for an amateur video, maybe its for a TV show and you just didn't see the cameraman inside the shop. Maybe the gun is fake and its for Punked. There are too many variables for you to just shoot to kill someone.

So, in conclusion, if you have explicit first hand knowledge of what is going on, by all means excercise your right to shoot he bastard. Otherwise, in my mind you are not jusitifed because you are abandoning any rational judgement and just shooting. Cops rarely ever shoot to kill unless they have to, unlike some of you nuts who would shoot a bank robber as he walks down the bank steps, or put a bullet in a guy during a hostage situation. There is a reason that cops don't go in guns blazing unless they know exactly what is going on, and after they have given non-violent means a chance.

actually i would like ot have amused in the same room. at least then i know there is someone who is ready to deal with a situation if it happens.

i would love to have a bunch of responbile CCW owners around if something happens. you cant count on the cops ot help you.