Concealed carry weapon discussion

[Amused]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot
Just to throw my hat into the ring...I think some of you are absolutely insane. I don't care if the law is with you, I would never want to be in the same room as some of you, especially with Amused.

Please explain, in detail, what makes you afraid to be in the same room with me?

I'm 39 and have never been arrested. I have never assualted someone, never stolen anything since I was a preteen. About the worst thing I have done is speed on the highway. The only violence I have ever been involved with has been clear cut self defense. I abhor violence.

So please, enlighten me. Just why am I so scary?

Finally, there is a HUGE difference between seeing a guy point a gun at another in an alley, and seeing a customer point a gun at a bank teller. In the alley, I would hold off until I knew what was going on. In the bank it's a no brainer.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: Amused
So please, enlighten me. Just why am I so scary?

Obviously I was exaggerating some, but I'll still explain. From what I've read in this thread you seem to be someone who shoots first and asks questions later, and I wouldn't want to be around someone that I deem to not think things through. As I said in my other post, there are too many variables in some situations for one to just open fire, while you seem to think it'd be a grand idea to unload a clip into the guy and then figure out what was going on later.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: Amused
So please, enlighten me. Just why am I so scary?

Obviously I was exaggerating some, but I'll still explain. From what I've read in this thread you seem to be someone who shoots first and asks questions later, and I wouldn't want to be around someone that I deem to not think things through. As I said in my other post, there are too many variables in some situations for one to just open fire, while you seem to think it'd be a grand idea to unload a clip into the guy and then figure out what was going on later.

I will shoot first if I KNOW what is going on and I believe my life, or the life of another innocent is in danger. The OP's scenario is pretty clear cut.

I think everything through... including the fact that yelling "freeze" only makes most criminals open fire or do something similarly stupid. Trying to talk one down is just plain stupid if you have no cover and are alone.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 3NF
Ok, so you have the right to arm yourself. But now I'm at a disadvantage, so does that mean I can carry a gun to protect myself from you? Really, the probability of you needing a gun to protect yourself from someone is the same as me needing a gun to protect myself from you. So with that stupid logic, everyone is now carrying a gun. That's genius!!

Human nature will never change? Nope, not with people like you alive, it sure won't change. I hope someone you care about finds your gun and does something stupid with it. If you *think* you need to carry a gun, it just means you're a fvcking pussy.

Quoted and bolded for stupidity.

I can't believe you could be so callous and bitter as to actually wish for that to happen to someone.

wow, just wow...so simply picking up a gun makes a criminal? when did guns get this awesome mind control? do you have to buy them somewhere special? my seems like a lifeless pices of metal and plastic.

oh snap! i just got it! since guns are inherently evil, its biding its time and choosing the perfect moment to take over my mind and force me to commit a heinous crime! damn! why didn't i see that before? those sentient, mind controlling guns are sneaky!

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

WOW! you're posts get even better and better.

hint: better and better = more stupid and irrational.

 

[KingofCamelot]

Originally posted by: Amused
I will shoot first if I KNOW what is going on and I believe my life, or the life of another innocent is in danger. The OP's scenario is pretty clear cut.

Is the OP really that clear cut? It already says the guy had a plastic gun, so you're already shooting without knowing all the facts. The OP goes so far as to say "The cashier realizes it's a fake plastic gun, and does not fear for her life". So, I think we can assume, if she does not fear for her life, that shes not crying hysterically, shes not shaking uncontrollably, shes not yelling for help. The way I read the situation, we have a cashier who is not scared for her life, but is complying with the robber just to be on the safe side. She could be acting quite rational and in no way distressed. Are you still justified to shoot the guy, when the situation appears to be fairly non-violent, other than the gun of course?

If the cashier was screaming for help, thats one thing. If shes crying and the guy continually shoves the gun in her face, you can normally assume danger. If the cashier is calm and composed, what is telling you that you need to fatally shoot the guy? As the OP already said, the guy's gun is fake. Lets expand, and say for all we know hes an undercover cop doing an elaborate sting on the cashier who arranged a bank robber that she would help in. Maybe the robber is a former employee and the cashier knows him, which is why she is not afraid, because she knows he is harmless. Maybe the guy is being forced to rob the bank against his will, and has told the cashier this. Maybe the guy is just trying to help his family, and he has told the cashier shes in no danger, that then gun is fake, and that he needs the money to get his family out of trouble.

I know some of those may be stretches, but when the cashier is not showing distress, and you don't know exactly what has been said between the robber and the cashier, you are leaving a lot of things unkown before you open fire.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

no one is trying to convince you you need to carry a weapon. this is not a contest. no one has the upper hand or is trying to gain an upper hand.

its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

 

[XNice]

Originally posted by: pontifex
its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

I was gonna say that...

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

WOW! you're posts get even better and better.

hint: better and better = more stupid and irrational.

You explain why so eloquently. You're obviously a genius.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

no one is trying to convince you you need to carry a weapon. this is not a contest. no one has the upper hand or is trying to gain an upper hand.

its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

But I am ...

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

WOW! you're posts get even better and better.

hint: better and better = more stupid and irrational.

You explain why so eloquently. You're obviously a genius.

all anyone has to do is read your threads. you do a good job explaining why yourself.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

no one is trying to convince you you need to carry a weapon. this is not a contest. no one has the upper hand or is trying to gain an upper hand.

its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

But I am ...

which is exactly why you shouldn't even be posting here. you're just a troll who has no clue what he is talking about.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

no one is trying to convince you you need to carry a weapon. this is not a contest. no one has the upper hand or is trying to gain an upper hand.

its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

But I am ...

which is exactly why you shouldn't even be posting here. you're just a troll who has no clue what he is talking about.

I'm a troll because I disagree with this whole CCW thing? So anyone that disagrees with you is a troll?

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: XNice

Originally posted by: pontifex
its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

I was gonna say that...

But you didn't, Drexel boy.

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: ElMonoDelMar

Originally posted by: 3NF

Why don't you fix your "My Rig" link already.

/thread

Run out of witty responses?

Do you really want me to keep posting to this thread, gun lover? I'm sure I can come up with something else. How about I'm now convinced that I should carry a concealed weapon so that I can protect myself from those that think they need to pack heat to protect themselves from crime? Why should you have the upper hand? Let's all pack heat and play on the same field?

no one is trying to convince you you need to carry a weapon. this is not a contest. no one has the upper hand or is trying to gain an upper hand.

its obvious from your posts that you shouldn't be in here making any comments.

But I am ...

which is exactly why you shouldn't even be posting here. you're just a troll who has no clue what he is talking about.

I'm a troll because I disagree with this whole CCW thing? So anyone that disagrees with you is a troll?

no, you are a troll based on the immature and irrational responses you gave.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: Amused
I will shoot first if I KNOW what is going on and I believe my life, or the life of another innocent is in danger. The OP's scenario is pretty clear cut.

Is the OP really that clear cut? It already says the guy had a plastic gun, so you're already shooting without knowing all the facts. The OP goes so far as to say "The cashier realizes it's a fake plastic gun, and does not fear for her life". So, I think we can assume, if she does not fear for her life, that shes not crying hysterically, shes not shaking uncontrollably, shes not yelling for help. The way I read the situation, we have a cashier who is not scared for her life, but is complying with the robber just to be on the safe side. She could be acting quite rational and in no way distressed. Are you still justified to shoot the guy, when the situation appears to be fairly non-violent, other than the gun of course?

If the cashier was screaming for help, thats one thing. If shes crying and the guy continually shoves the gun in her face, you can normally assume danger. If the cashier is calm and composed, what is telling you that you need to fatally shoot the guy? As the OP already said, the guy's gun is fake. Lets expand, and say for all we know hes an undercover cop doing an elaborate sting on the cashier who arranged a bank robber that she would help in. Maybe the robber is a former employee and the cashier knows him, which is why she is not afraid, because she knows he is harmless. Maybe the guy is being forced to rob the bank against his will, and has told the cashier this. Maybe the guy is just trying to help his family, and he has told the cashier shes in no danger, that then gun is fake, and that he needs the money to get his family out of trouble.

I know some of those may be stretches, but when the cashier is not showing distress, and you don't know exactly what has been said between the robber and the cashier, you are leaving a lot of things unkown before you open fire.

Actually, if the cashier knew it was a fake gun, she would scream or laugh, or both. If she thought it was real, she would either freeze up, or comply quietly.

Have you ever been robbed? Have you ever been robbed multiple times? Have you ever had a drugged out addict stick a gun in your face and threaten to kill you? Have you ever been shot at?

I have. I know what it's like. Ask any mini-market or fast food manager what it's like. They'll tell you. If I see a criminal doing it to someone else I will not think twice. If I wait to find out if it's a fake gun, I will have waited to long.

Even the cops wont ask a criminal if his gun is real. So that's irrelevant. If *I* believe it's real, I am justified in protecting myself and other innocents.

You don't play 20 questions with an armed robber.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: 3NF
Ok, so you have the right to arm yourself. But now I'm at a disadvantage, so does that mean I can carry a gun to protect myself from you? Really, the probability of you needing a gun to protect yourself from someone is the same as me needing a gun to protect myself from you. So with that stupid logic, everyone is now carrying a gun. That's genius!!

Human nature will never change? Nope, not with people like you alive, it sure won't change. I hope someone you care about finds your gun and does something stupid with it. If you *think* you need to carry a gun, it just means you're a fvcking pussy.

Quoted and bolded for stupidity.

I can't believe you could be so callous and bitter as to actually wish for that to happen to someone.

wow, just wow...so simply picking up a gun makes a criminal? when did guns get this awesome mind control? do you have to buy them somewhere special? my seems like a lifeless pices of metal and plastic.

oh snap! i just got it! since guns are inherently evil, its biding its time and choosing the perfect moment to take over my mind and force me to commit a heinous crime! damn! why didn't i see that before? those sentient, mind controlling guns are sneaky!

I keep my guns locked in a lead-lined safe so that their dangerous, rampage-inducing mind control rays don't make me go on a shooting spree.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
No. In my state (MA) at least, you need to give the guy a chance to put his gun down. i.e. "DROP YOUR WEAPON". If he doesn't, and he makes any threatening movements, then you shoot. Although you'd be stupid to start a firefight in the middle of a crowded bank, anyway.

And for the record, im pro gun.

you should give the person a warning first, makes things easier.

 

[fubar569]

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

No hippie parents here. I grew up with guns - was even given guns as birthday gifts. But after growing up with an alcoholic father who I saw shoot at my mother and cut her throat with a knife, well - let's just say I don't see the point having one. And I don't think my father is any different than you gun lovers here. You can't say for sure what you might do with it (good or bad).

You carry that gun if you think it makes you safer ...

Sorry, but I CAN say for sure what I will do with my gun. I have something called "self control." I'm sorry your father lacked it and apparently passed that trait onto you.

Your father is not indicitive of even a tiny minority of legal gun owners.

No you can't - if you could, you'd be "God".

Lack of self control - why, because I'm arguing a point with you? Or because I got pissed and wished you harm. Ohh, that's right - you don't do that.

Sorry, but I'll never agree with you gun lovers. So I guess we should end it by agreeing to disagree.

wow...i leave for the holidays and the thread goes to hell...where to start..????

personally - i think we should end it by whipping out the ban stick and for every completely lame ass unfounded ill-willed comment gets a minimum 2 week vacation. At this rate some of you wouldnt be back for about 60 years - and thats a good thing!

like someone else said, we are not forcing anyone to like guns or to carry them...however it is written in our constitution and is a guaranteed right to keep some sort of firearm. As good of a citizen as you all claim to be that means you should be respecting our right to carry if we so choose...For most of us, we choose handguns - if anything for self defense. because criminals dont give a ****** what's illegal...if they did, they wouldnt be criminals would they? -

bottom line is basically you're putting your faith in someone else to save your ass if it ever gets into a pickle...if there's anything you SHOULD have learned in life by now is you should NEVER rely on someone else for anything terribly important...ESPECIALLY YOUR LIFE! - i take it your life is pretty important to you...right? then why ****** around and wonder if officer plunkinturd will slap down the jelly filled donut long enough to come rescue you when you could've done the deed yourself in mere moments? case in point right there...

if you think someone will always be there to cover your ass...think again...if you think you can talk down a crackfiend holding a loaded gun pointed at you and convince him not to shoot...you do that....however i (along with many others) took the proactive approach...and decided to equip ourself so we can deal with life's curves on our own...

also, i personally dont care what you think...i'm not forcing you to carry - im not the one holding the gun to your head...however a little respect would be nice. respect our right to carry and make sure that its upheld. the 2nd ammendment as worded seems pretty absolute to me - and anti-gun advicates seem to want to take that away...why? some of the same people fighting to practically repeal the 2nd ammendment are some of the fiercest supporters of many of the other ammendments. just because it's number 2 on the list doesnt mean that it isn't as important as every single other one...or the founding fathers wouldnt have even bothered to write it in in the first place...

 

[fubar569]

Originally posted by: OVerLoRDI

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
No. In my state (MA) at least, you need to give the guy a chance to put his gun down. i.e. "DROP YOUR WEAPON". If he doesn't, and he makes any threatening movements, then you shoot. Although you'd be stupid to start a firefight in the middle of a crowded bank, anyway.

And for the record, im pro gun.

you should give the person a warning first, makes things easier.

the warning is in the law books - says if you do this then something bad will happen to you

if the guy really wants a warning...i'll hit him with a couple rounds out of the 9mm as a "warning" that he should cease to live - if he fails to head that warning the .357 mag should be able to finish him off.

sounds like warning enough to me...

 

[fubar569]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: KingofCamelot

Originally posted by: Amused
I will shoot first if I KNOW what is going on and I believe my life, or the life of another innocent is in danger. The OP's scenario is pretty clear cut.

Is the OP really that clear cut? It already says the guy had a plastic gun, so you're already shooting without knowing all the facts. The OP goes so far as to say "The cashier realizes it's a fake plastic gun, and does not fear for her life". So, I think we can assume, if she does not fear for her life, that shes not crying hysterically, shes not shaking uncontrollably, shes not yelling for help. The way I read the situation, we have a cashier who is not scared for her life, but is complying with the robber just to be on the safe side. She could be acting quite rational and in no way distressed. Are you still justified to shoot the guy, when the situation appears to be fairly non-violent, other than the gun of course?

If the cashier was screaming for help, thats one thing. If shes crying and the guy continually shoves the gun in her face, you can normally assume danger. If the cashier is calm and composed, what is telling you that you need to fatally shoot the guy? As the OP already said, the guy's gun is fake. Lets expand, and say for all we know hes an undercover cop doing an elaborate sting on the cashier who arranged a bank robber that she would help in. Maybe the robber is a former employee and the cashier knows him, which is why she is not afraid, because she knows he is harmless. Maybe the guy is being forced to rob the bank against his will, and has told the cashier this. Maybe the guy is just trying to help his family, and he has told the cashier shes in no danger, that then gun is fake, and that he needs the money to get his family out of trouble.

I know some of those may be stretches, but when the cashier is not showing distress, and you don't know exactly what has been said between the robber and the cashier, you are leaving a lot of things unkown before you open fire.

Actually, if the cashier knew it was a fake gun, she would scream or laugh, or both. If she thought it was real, she would either freeze up, or comply quietly.

Have you ever been robbed? Have you ever been robbed multiple times? Have you ever had a drugged out addict stick a gun in your face and threaten to kill you? Have you ever been shot at?

I have. I know what it's like. Ask any mini-market or fast food manager what it's like. They'll tell you. If I see a criminal doing it to someone else I will not think twice. If I wait to find out if it's a fake gun, I will have waited to long.

Even the cops wont ask a criminal if his gun is real. So that's irrelevant. If *I* believe it's real, I am justified in protecting myself and other innocents.

You don't play 20 questions with an armed robber.

bingo - we have a winner

 

[fubar569]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

I am armed, but not dangerous. I carry a gun for self defense only. A criminal carries a gun to assault innocent people. A VERY big difference.

You have every right to arm yourself... however, I strongly suggest you take note of statistical logic, rather than think everyone who is armed is dangerous. Law abiding gun owners are NOT the ones harming others.

You live in a world filled with armed criminals, and you fear law abiding gun owners. THAT, my liberal little friend, is irrational.

this is a very wise man - many would do good by paying attention...if you are capable...

 

[thescreensavers]

Its attempt to Rob

 

[mattocs]

no, his life was not at risk. Until the crook fired a shot, he had no right to fire.

 

[3NF]

Originally posted by: fubar569

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: 3NF

Anyone that carries a gun should be feared, yes. The reason doesn't matter.

That's irrational.

How is that irrational? I should be able to arm myself because you have a gun. I don't know you and I have no idea what you might do with it. How is that you carrying a gun is different than some robber carrying a gun? You're both armed and dangerous.

I am armed, but not dangerous. I carry a gun for self defense only. A criminal carries a gun to assault innocent people. A VERY big difference.

You have every right to arm yourself... however, I strongly suggest you take note of statistical logic, rather than think everyone who is armed is dangerous. Law abiding gun owners are NOT the ones harming others.

You live in a world filled with armed criminals, and you fear law abiding gun owners. THAT, my liberal little friend, is irrational.

this is a very wise man - many would do good by paying attention...if you are capable...

I fear anyone that carries a gun because I don't know what you might do with it. How am I to discern you between a potential robber or a law abiding citizen? Or do you pronounce the fact that you carrying a weapon everywhere you go?

If you were to enter my home, packing heat, and didn't inform me that you were then I would just assume you are a threat to my family and ask you to leave. The fact that you are carrying a concealed weapon implies you are a threat. Period.