A tazer really isn't a counter to a gun toting person. Last thing I'd want to try is to send a shock to the system of someone with their finger on the trigger of any gun.
Originally posted by: Quintox
This is not a smart idea IMO. I think they should let them have a permit to carry tazers, or another non-lethal weapon. This way, if a gunman does come on campus into a classroom, the student(s) can tazer them, and have a good chance of effectively stopping him.
Originally posted by: daniel1113
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I hold a pretty libertarian position on gun control, but concealed-carry still makes me uncomfortable.
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
With police officers that power is regulated.
That is pretty far from being libertarian.
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Besides, this is so not a gun control issue, it should be left up to the individual campuses.
Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Most college students can't be trusted to bathe themselves regularly, let alone carry deadly force.
I understand the need for additional safety, but I'd rather see it in the hands of trained professional law enforcement than in the hands of a frat-boi who is still working off the last of the previous night's bender.
1. I don't want to pay for more security, do you? I want to make a one-time investment into my security in the form of a pistol, rather than a life-long commitment to several inept rent-a-cops' salaries
2. Cops can't be with me all the time (unlike my pistol), as this relates directly to cost
3. Concealed Carry requires you to be trained, dummy, they don't just rubberstamp every app that comes in.
Originally posted by: Queasy
Reading this thread, it is pretty clear that there are a lot of people who haven't the first clue about what is required to get a Concealed Carry permit.
Please find out before making silly comments about 'just anybody' or 'drunk fratboys' carrying guns to class.
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Most college students can't be trusted to bathe themselves regularly, let alone carry deadly force.
I understand the need for additional safety, but I'd rather see it in the hands of trained professional law enforcement than in the hands of a frat-boi who is still working off the last of the previous night's bender.
1. I don't want to pay for more security, do you? I want to make a one-time investment into my security in the form of a pistol, rather than a life-long commitment to several inept rent-a-cops' salaries
2. Cops can't be with me all the time (unlike my pistol), as this relates directly to cost
3. Concealed Carry requires you to be trained, dummy, they don't just rubberstamp every app that comes in.
Actually in regards to #3, some states have NO training requirement whatsoever. So long as you pass the background check you get a license, period. It's not the norm, but it does exist.
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Texas. And I've never lived in an apartment where I could have a gun.
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Texas. And I've never lived in an apartment where I could have a gun.
I've never heard of an apartment restricting firearms..then again, I've only lived in a few eastern states.
Guess they're 'no cops allowed' rentals, eh?
Originally posted by: Quintox
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Moreover, do you feel uncomfortable everywhere else in the country? Because people carry everywhere else. To give you some idea, if you go to a movie theater in Washington, and there are 200 people in the theater with you, then statistically between 2 and 8 people in there have a gun on them (legally). Remember, everywhere you go in America at least 1 out of a hundred people is legally carrying a gun on them right then.
Yup I do.
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Most college students can't be trusted to bathe themselves regularly, let alone carry deadly force.
I understand the need for additional safety, but I'd rather see it in the hands of trained professional law enforcement than in the hands of a frat-boi who is still working off the last of the previous night's bender.
1. I don't want to pay for more security, do you? I want to make a one-time investment into my security in the form of a pistol, rather than a life-long commitment to several inept rent-a-cops' salaries
2. Cops can't be with me all the time (unlike my pistol), as this relates directly to cost
3. Concealed Carry requires you to be trained, dummy, they don't just rubberstamp every app that comes in.
Actually in regards to #3, some states have NO training requirement whatsoever. So long as you pass the background check you get a license, period. It's not the norm, but it does exist.
VT has no provisions for CC permits - just about anyone can carry, unless legally prohibited (felon, etc).
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I hold a pretty libertarian position on gun control, but concealed-carry still makes me uncomfortable. The reason is that giving one person a gun (and let's not pretend that a martial artist or a Buick is the same thing) among a population that is generally unarmed is shifting the balance of power. With police officers that power is regulated. What happens when a guy who's strapped walks into a classroom? The power used to be in the professor's hands by virtue of authority granted him by the university. Well, the power of the immediate threat lethal force trumps that power, if not in practice, then psychologically.
It's not entirely rational, I'll admit. It's sort of like seeing a Marine with an M-16 at the airport for the first time: it's a little jarring. But my only point is that there IS a difference in how you talk to someone when you know they have a gun. It does have the potential to retard social interaction.
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
I hold a pretty libertarian position on gun control, but concealed-carry still makes me uncomfortable. The reason is that giving one person a gun (and let's not pretend that a martial artist or a Buick is the same thing) among a population that is generally unarmed is shifting the balance of power. With police officers that power is regulated. What happens when a guy who's strapped walks into a classroom? The power used to be in the professor's hands by virtue of authority granted him by the university. Well, the power of the immediate threat lethal force trumps that power, if not in practice, then psychologically.
It's not entirely rational, I'll admit. It's sort of like seeing a Marine with an M-16 at the airport for the first time: it's a little jarring. But my only point is that there IS a difference in how you talk to someone when you know they have a gun. It does have the potential to retard social interaction.
I carry very often. I have yet to notice any difference in how people interact with me precisely because I carry concealed. It's not like people who carry are going around with a sign on their back that says "I'm Packing". Chances are that at some point you've talked with a person who was carrying and you just don't know it.
ZV
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Texas. And I've never lived in an apartment where I could have a gun.
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: OS
Originally posted by: AnthroAndStargate
i would not feel safe on my campus if students could carry guns. drunk fratboys + guns = a bad combo. they cause enough trouble without weapons, god knows what would happen if they were packing.
it is already illegal to be drunk with a CCW, it is grounds for revocation if not jail.
if anything, you should be more worried about illegally packing frat boys at parties before ones with a CCW.
If someone is gonna pack illegally anyways, not having a CCW is not gonna stop them.
If you think someone who is otherwise law abiding is going to be just as likely to carry a be drunk and carry a weapon on campus where it's always illegal as if it were legal to CCW, you're deluded. And if the frat boy can't have a weapon in the dorm or whatever, period, that removes it from the equation.
It's like driving drunk. Do you really think drunk driving would be just as likely under prohibition, just because driving drunk is illegal anyway?
What the hell are you talking about? You wanna learn some grammar?
You think that imaginary line of the school campus offers extra special protection?
Crimes, robberies and shootings still happen on campus, despite the laws.
Or are you really saying is you think an outright national gun prohibition is the answer then?
BTW, I am willing to bet drunk driving would happen alot less, if driver licenses cost $300, required a criminal background investigation, and when you are caught driving drunk, your license is revoked permanently.
Which is what happens with a CCW.
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Texas. And I've never lived in an apartment where I could have a gun.
I've lived in 9 states, many, MANY apartments, and have NEVER once seen a weapon restriction.
Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Most college students can't be trusted to bathe themselves regularly, let alone carry deadly force.
I understand the need for additional safety, but I'd rather see it in the hands of trained professional law enforcement than in the hands of a frat-boi who is still working off the last of the previous night's bender.
1. I don't want to pay for more security, do you? I want to make a one-time investment into my security in the form of a pistol, rather than a life-long commitment to several inept rent-a-cops' salaries
2. Cops can't be with me all the time (unlike my pistol), as this relates directly to cost
3. Concealed Carry requires you to be trained, dummy, they don't just rubberstamp every app that comes in.
Actually in regards to #3, some states have NO training requirement whatsoever. So long as you pass the background check you get a license, period. It's not the norm, but it does exist.
VT has no provisions for CC permits - just about anyone can carry, unless legally prohibited (felon, etc).
:Q
Looks like I stand corrected, I thought most if not all states required some sort of shooting for dummies course/test.
Either way, my other two points are still valid
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Pulls out lawn chair and ice tea.
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Originally posted by: JLee
Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Jeez, it does look like I don't know teh grammer. I dragged and dropped words accidentally.
My point is that we are worried about people, who AREN'T setting out to break laws, carrying guns on campus, especially because of their age. It's not that someone sets out to do something illegal, but if a frat boy is concealed carrying and happens to get into a drunk fight, he might shoot somebody. Considering most apartments don't allow guns, I don't know where they'd keep their guns anyway.
Where do you live, Cali?
Texas. And I've never lived in an apartment where I could have a gun.