Connecticut Rebate Law

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PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
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If you walk into a store and say can you "pay" me the price of an item, will they:
a: tell you what it costs
b: say you are crazy, why should I give you money.

And if you have a big enough gun, they'll give you the rebate money and then some .

I'm just hoping that my assumption is correct, because I'm fed up with deceptive advertising. How many times have we all seen ads which state "Everything in the store is X% off" and then they have a page and a half of items which are excluded? That doesn't sound like the definition of "everything" which I was taught.

BTW, I tried to get a verbal confirmation of this law today and gave up after listening to "you're call is very important to us, please continue to hold" for almost a half hour. I'll try tomorrow morning and if I get any information I'll post it here.

Intake,
Where did you find the actual law? I searched around the DCP website and couldn't find an exact match to the law which you quoted.
 

Ness

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
5,407
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Originally posted by: PullMyFinger

"Connecticut has a Rebate Advertising law requiring retailers who advertise the net price of an item after deduction of a manufacturer?s rebate to pay consumers the amount of that rebate when they buy the item. If the retailers don?t wish to do this, they cannot advertise the after-rebate price as the final price to be paid by the consumer. Thus, there should be no confusion about the amount the customer must pay at the cash register."

There, is that "non-idiot" enough for even you to understand? Hmmm, lets see now, that would mean that all of your misplaced logic is WRONG, all of your assumptions are WRONG, and anything you say to the contrary only manages to stuff more of your foot in your mouth...


...But, if they choose no to, then the consumer is entitled to "double dip" on the rebate, according to the current law.


Although that is a decent summary of law, there are two flaws with using that in this argument. For one, it's only a summary, and fails to mention the finer points of the law, and the second and most important fact, it's only a summary, not the law itself. That's why I completely disregarded that whole thing.

And the statement on double-dipping is false too, that's a whole seperate debate in itself. It's fraud. Fraud is more or less lying. You have received your rebate, and almost all rebate forms say one rebate per person, per household. You may argue that people who buy two of the item should get two rebates, and ideed they should. But you shouldn't get two rebates for this. But again, that's an entirely seperate subject with is more a question of morals rather than law.


 

santokki

Senior member
Sep 26, 2000
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If the Connecticut web site's summary could be taken at face value, then what Intake did was not only legal, it was proper. But the summary is just that: a summary. It's not comprehensive, it's not conclusive, and it's not the law.

Anyway, every now and then, you'll see BB or CC goof up and not show the sale price and the rebate price on the shelves (they'll show only the after MIR price). They may have someone who proofreads their flyers, but they don't check all their display prices.
 

PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
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I think that the combination of the law which Intake quoted and the summary which Intake and myself posted makes it pretty clear that the intent of the law is to allow the payment of the rebate amount at the time of purchase if it is advertised in the net price. The ambiguity of the law in the first post arises from the term "provide the amount". This can be taken as "told" or "paid". The summary from the DCP website indicates that it means "paid".

And regarding the double dipping, if the retailer falsely advertised a final net price, then they are obligated to provide the proper final price to the customer at the time of check out. This in no way forfeits the customers right to the manufacturers rebate, the product manufacturer didn't commit the pricing error, the store which committed the deceptive pricing did.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it . Either way, I'll try to get a verbal clarification of this issue tomorrow. Out.
 

Ness

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
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Originally posted by: PullMyFinger
I think that the combination of the law which Intake quoted and the summary which Intake and myself posted makes it pretty clear that the intent of the law is to allow the payment of the rebate amount at the time of purchase if it is advertised in the net price. The ambiguity of the law in the first post arises from the term "provide the amount". This can be taken as "told" or "paid". The summary from the DCP website indicates that it means "paid".

The summary doesn't indicate "paid" for a situation where the store is in compliance with the law. Again, your argument here is in the idea that while the law states one thing, you can assume it means something different.

Your first sentence, about it being clear... hah, not to be a jerk, but if it were made so clear... why do we have 3 pages of posts about it's clairity?

Under your assumption of the law, the retailer would be provided to pay the consumer for advertising any rebate at all. There is NOTHING wrong with advertising a rebate, nothing deceptive about it, and surely, nothing wrong with doing it. Is it annoying? Sure it is. But to be deceptive means to mislead, and there is nothing misleading about openly stating all the math to obtain a price.


 

meefmah

Member
Mar 8, 2002
127
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(e) Advertise the availability of a manufacturer's rebate by displaying the
net price of the advertised item in the advertisement, unless the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer by the retailer at
the time of purchase of the advertised item. A retailer will not be
required to provide the purchaser of an advertised item with the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate if the rebate* advertises that a manufacturer's
rebate is available without stating the net price of the item. For the
purpose of this subsection, "net price" means the ultimate price paid by a
consumer after he redeems the manufacturer's rebate offered for the
advertised item.

*Should be "retailer"

The above states:
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer"

It does not state:
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is described to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is stated to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is told to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is disclosed to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is displayed to the consumer"

If I am ordered to provide you $10.
It does not mean:
I describe $10 to you.
I say, "$10" to you.
I inform you of the $10 order.
I show you $10.
I show you a picture of $10.
It means:
I must supply you the actual $10, if I am to be in compliance.



 

Ness

Diamond Member
Jul 10, 2002
5,407
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Originally posted by: meefmah(e) Advertise the availability of a manufacturer's rebate by displaying the
net price of the advertised item in the advertisement, unless the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer by the retailer at
the time of purchase of the advertised item. A retailer will not be
required to provide the purchaser of an advertised item with the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate if the retailer advertises that a manufacturer's
rebate is available without stating the net price of the item. For the
purpose of this subsection, "net price" means the ultimate price paid by a
consumer after he redeems the manufacturer's rebate offered for the
advertised item.


The above states:
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer"

It does not state:
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is described to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is stated to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is told to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is disclosed to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is displayed to the consumer"

It also does not state:
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is paid to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is discounted to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is given to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is awarded to the consumer"
"the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is furnished to the consumer"

Provide can, and in most legal documents, does, mean "set the stipulation of" or "establish the existance of".
If it were the law that the store would pay the difference, the law would say "discount" or "pay".

the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer.
the amount of the manufacturer's rebate is set as a stipulation to the consumer.

How do you not see this going hand-in-hand with the other sections of the law?
This law prevents retailers from using tactics that require stipulations, and failing to mention the stipulation at the time of purchase.

If Best Buy says that the net cost to you is $10 after a $30 mail in rebate, but the cost to you at the register is $40, there is NOTHING deceptive about that. NOT A THING.
 

meefmah

Member
Mar 8, 2002
127
0
0
Originally posted by: ness1469

If Best Buy says that the net cost to you is $10 after a $30 mail in rebate, but the cost to you at the register is $40, there is NOTHING deceptive about that. NOT A THING.

Nowhere in this thread have I made an inference of deception on the part of anyone. Though my example, below, is deceptive advertising.

(e) Advertise the availability of a manufacturer's rebate by displaying the
net price of the advertised item in the advertisement, unless the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate is provided to the consumer by the retailer at
the time of purchase of the advertised item. A retailer will not be
required to provide the purchaser of an advertised item with the amount of
the manufacturer's rebate if the rebate advertises that a manufacturer's
rebate is available without stating the net price of the item. For the
purpose of this subsection, "net price" means the ultimate price paid by a
consumer after he redeems the manufacturer's rebate offered for the
advertised item.

Using your interpretation, a retailer could advertise the net price of an item and not disclose the rebate amount until the consumer is at the checkstand. The retailers would love that. Example: "Factory fresh Sony Playstation2 console with controller for only $99.99".
The retailer would have an army of high pressure salesmen ready for the day the ad runs, as a flood of consumers, looking for a great deal would pour into the store. A prime objective of advertising (getting you in their door) has been met (even if no one buys a PS2). So, say I'm one of the customers and have managed to grab a console. I stand in this checkout line, for what seems an eternity, only to find that they want $400 now and offer a rebate for $300, which if executed to perfection may yield a check in 4wks to never. Most would balk, but some might bite and some might allow themselves to be directed to another purchase. "Oh, you don't want the PS2? Well, how about an X-Box or a Gamecube, we have excellent bundles that represent a great value. Hey, maybe you would be better off with this 50" Plasma monitor, I'll give you a great deal on it, or maybe some diamonds..." It sounds absurd, but it wouldn't surprise me if it actually happened and this, I will say, is deceptive.

If you don't make the retailer PAY the rebate amount at the time of purchase, there is no down side for the retailer and much to be exploited. According to (e).

Business can be very pragmatic, with no morality, no right and wrong, only red and black.
 

dew042

Platinum Member
Nov 2, 2000
2,934
0
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i think bb does a good job of side-stepping any legal implications since on their price tag they usually show the math long hand so it goes:

$49.99
-10 rebate
_________
39.99 after rebate

so the actual advertised price is 49.99....

dew.
 

PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
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Ok, I just got off the phone with a woman at the DCP legal department. We both read through 42-110b-19 and specifically section e) and here is what she had to say. "If the retailer states the final after rebate price of an item, then they have to sell that item to you at that after rebate price. For example if they list a laundry basket as $5.99 minus a $2 MIR and show a final price of $3.99, then the retailer can only charge you $3.99 at the check out. It is up to the retailer to then fill out the rebate information and collect it from the manufacturer. Now, if they list a DVD player as $50 with a $10 MIR then they can sell it to you for $50 and then you are responsible for filling out the rebate information".

So, if anyone else has any questions about the meaning of this law or how it can be used, feel free to call 1-800-842-2649 and press 1 when they start to speak and then press 4 when they start to speak again, this way you don't have to listen to the options you don't need. Then prepare to wait a minimum of 15 minutes while you listen to a very feminine sounding guy with a lisp tell you that "all representatives are busy, please check out our web site at blah blah blah".

As for me, I'm going shopping right after work! And thank you again Intake77, fantastic find!
 

Modeps

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
17,254
44
91
Originally posted by: PullMyFinger
Ok, I just got off the phone with a woman at the DCP legal department. We both read through 42-110b-19 and specifically section e) and here is what she had to say. "If the retailer states the final after rebate price of an item, then they have to sell that item to you at that after rebate price. For example if they list a laundry basket as $5.99 minus a $2 MIR and show a final price of $3.99, then the retailer can only charge you $3.99 at the check out. It is up to the retailer to then fill out the rebate information and collect it from the manufacturer. Now, if they list a DVD player as $50 with a $10 MIR then they can sell it to you for $50 and then you are responsible for filling out the rebate information".

So, if anyone else has any questions about the meaning of this law or how it can be used, feel free to call 1-800-842-2649 and press 1 when they start to speak and then press 4 when they start to speak again, this way you don't have to listen to the options you don't need. Then prepare to wait a minimum of 15 minutes while you listen to a very feminine sounding guy with a lisp tell you that "all representatives are busy, please check out our web site at blah blah blah".

As for me, I'm going shopping right after work! And thank you again Intake77, fantastic find!

Hey no problem, thats what they told me too when I called before orignating this thread. Just to make sure they know the law, bring a printout. They may not take your word for it, just like some people in this thread.

On a sidenote, I dont think I'll post anything else in the Hot Deals forum again, just due to the fact that people immediately think you're trying to screw someone over (when in fact, it's the companies that are screwing YOU over) and get accused of being a thief, liar, or child. It's not worth the hassle.

~Intake
 

PullMyFinger

Senior member
Mar 7, 2001
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Although that is a decent summary of law, there are two flaws with using that in this argument. For one, it's only a summary, and fails to mention the finer points of the law, and the second and most important fact, it's only a summary, not the law itself. That's why I completely disregarded that whole thing.

And the statement on double-dipping is false too, that's a whole seperate debate in itself. It's fraud. Fraud is more or less lying. You have received your rebate, and almost all rebate forms say one rebate per person, per household. You may argue that people who buy two of the item should get two rebates, and ideed they should. But you shouldn't get two rebates for this. But again, that's an entirely seperate subject with is more a question of morals rather than law.

Ness, you just don't get it. The summary is a simplification of what the law states, if there is any ambiguity in the how certain parts of the law can be interpreted, the summary is there to clarify to overall intent of the law. The summary was never intended to mention the finer points of the law, get a clue. This is the same reason why there is generally an executive summary and/or conclusion included with most technical documents, the actual data could be interpreted in ways other than those intended by the author, depending on who is reading it.

Now regarding calling double dipping fraud, that is wrong also. A person who manages to get this price reduction at the register has received it from the retailer, not the manufacturer. The purchaser is then entitled to receive the rebate from the manufacturer unless the retailer chooses to keep the rebate forms and information and submit them for the retailer's benefit. Either way, the manufacturer only has to pay one rebate, thus all is legal.

And don't get me started about morals and large corporations, I personally have had valid rebate submittals rejected for blatantly false reasons on more than one occasion. I have then had to resubmit copies of the identical paper work and information just to get what was rightfully mine in the first place, causing a delay of months from when I was supposed to receive my money.

The summary doesn't indicate "paid" for a situation where the store is in compliance with the law. Again, your argument here is in the idea that while the law states one thing, you can assume it means something different.

Your first sentence, about it being clear... hah, not to be a jerk, but if it were made so clear... why do we have 3 pages of posts about it's clairity?

Under your assumption of the law, the retailer would be provided to pay the consumer for advertising any rebate at all. There is NOTHING wrong with advertising a rebate, nothing deceptive about it, and surely, nothing wrong with doing it. Is it annoying? Sure it is. But to be deceptive means to mislead, and there is nothing misleading about openly stating all the math to obtain a price.

Again Ness, learn to read and understand before typing. This thread is 3 pages long primarily because of you. Your entire basis for posting in this thread ad nauseum is to prove that your interpretation of the CT law is the only correct way it can be interpreted. The summary says that the retailer won't have to pay for the rebate if they don't include it in the advertised net price, thus why would they have to pay if they are in compliance with the law?!?!?!

And the CT law does state that there is nothing wrong with advertising a rebate. It just states that you can't include the rebate in the final advertised price without providing the rebate amount (meaning "pay") at the check out. This is not MY assumption, it's the meaning and intent of the law. For the third time, call the free phone number (it's free so it's a hot deal) or check the website for yourself, or are you too afraid to admit that you are wrong.

Intake,
Don't give up on the hot deals forum. Without people like you most of us wouldn't have been aware of this information. There will always be thread crappers, just ignore them or prove them wrong if you want to.
 

Led Zeppelin

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 2002
3,555
0
71
Originally posted by: Intake77
Originally posted by: PullMyFinger
Ok, I just got off the phone with a woman at the DCP legal department. We both read through 42-110b-19 and specifically section e) and here is what she had to say. "If the retailer states the final after rebate price of an item, then they have to sell that item to you at that after rebate price. For example if they list a laundry basket as $5.99 minus a $2 MIR and show a final price of $3.99, then the retailer can only charge you $3.99 at the check out. It is up to the retailer to then fill out the rebate information and collect it from the manufacturer. Now, if they list a DVD player as $50 with a $10 MIR then they can sell it to you for $50 and then you are responsible for filling out the rebate information".

So, if anyone else has any questions about the meaning of this law or how it can be used, feel free to call 1-800-842-2649 and press 1 when they start to speak and then press 4 when they start to speak again, this way you don't have to listen to the options you don't need. Then prepare to wait a minimum of 15 minutes while you listen to a very feminine sounding guy with a lisp tell you that "all representatives are busy, please check out our web site at blah blah blah".

As for me, I'm going shopping right after work! And thank you again Intake77, fantastic find!

Hey no problem, thats what they told me too when I called before orignating this thread. Just to make sure they know the law, bring a printout. They may not take your word for it, just like some people in this thread.

On a sidenote, I dont think I'll post anything else in the Hot Deals forum again, just due to the fact that people immediately think you're trying to screw someone over (when in fact, it's the companies that are screwing YOU over) and get accused of being a thief, liar, or child. It's not worth the hassle.

~Intake


Thank you Intake, and Pull. As a fellow Connecticut consumer, this is very informative, and well worth the time reading through this. Also, your link brought something else to my attention, the laws regarding health clubs and pricing, as mine raised their rates at the beginning of the year, but I signed a 12 month contract last March with the price to be payroll deducted every month clearly stated on the signed contract. When calling the number (and yes, for 20 minutes listening to the queer man telling me to look at the website), the woman that answered informed me they are in violation, and were not allowed to raise their rates while still in a written contract at a certain price. Yet another of many examples of a business trying to screw the consumer.
 
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