Connecting two fairly close buildings

[PUfreak13]

I am looking for a recommendation to connect two buildings (A home and an office) via network and would like to know what kind of options I have. The two buildings are approximately 1,280 feet apart with multiple trees in the line of sight (which rules out wireless I believe). The land between the buildings is all pasture and we own it all. Are there any fairly inexpensive ways to connect the two buildings? Please let me know what you think. Thanks!

 

[spidey07]

some direct burial fiber cable should be OK.

but it ain't gonna be cheap. probably a few grand for the fiber and then 300 for the network gear on each end.

but this is really your only option if you can't do wireless.

possibly getting internet access at both locations and then setting up a VPN

 

[PUfreak13]

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was afraid of. Part of the reason I was hoping to connect was for internet access. The only internet options the house has is dial up or satellite, but the office has a T-1 line.

If my best option (cost-wise) is wireless, how clear does the line-of-sight need to be?

 

[ktwebb]

Originally posted by: PUfreak13
Thanks for the reply. That's what I was afraid of. Part of the reason I was hoping to connect was for internet access. The only internet options the house has is dial up or satellite, but the office has a T-1 line.

If my best option (cost-wise) is wireless, how clear does the line-of-sight need to be?

At a quarter of a mile, completely. Not only do you need a visual line of site, you also need fresnel zone clearance. You may get a yahoo or two come in here boasting about a one mile shot through a forest or whatever but if you don't have line of site at that distance then either cut the trees or start trenching.

 

[PUfreak13]

I have a feeling that's going to be what I'm going to have to do. I have never heard of this fresnol zone clearance, and after a quick search and reading of information, I am still not 100% sure how I calculate it. If I can clear a few trees and get a 10 or 15' width line-of-site clearance, would that probably work?

One other question:
What type of antenna would I need to get a quarter mile range?

 

[irwincur]

Depends on how many trees and the antenna that you choose. You may be able to make it. However, if there is a wall of trees, I would say buy a chainsaw. Fibre is going to be expensive and digging the trench alone will be as much as cutting down a bunch of trees.

 

[PUfreak13]

Chainsaw - check

The antennae I was looking at is this (or these): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5790271902&fromMakeTrack=true

Now, not being incredibly familier with outdoor wireless networks, it is my understanding that I will have to plug these antennaes into an access point on either end. Is it that simple or is it a little more difficult than that?

 

[networkman]

I just love solving networking problems with a chainsaw!

Were I in the same situation, I'd go the trench route with fibre. Currently, your only concern is internet access, but the down the road those needs may(and probably will) change, so the fibre would give you additional bandwidth for growth. Additionally, even once you've achieved line of sight, other elements such as the weather can interfere with the signal above ground - not so below.. unless you have earthquakes or torrential floods.

 

[PUfreak13]

I'm sure the fiber optic route would be the best option for speed and reliability, but the cost factor ($3,000+) is a major deterant. I'm sure my internet options will chance in the next few years and I was hoping for a cheaper fix for the time being. No high speed internet at home bites!

 

[networkman]

I'm not sure where you got your $3,000 figure from... doing it yourself would be considerably cheaper, as far as the trenching and laying of cable, although it would take a while admittedly. You of course still need to get the equipment for each end, but I think 3k is a bit high.

 

[PUfreak13]

How much were you thinking? If you could give me direction on the supplies I need that would be greatly appreciated. Time I have, loads of money I do not.

 

[spidey07]

the fiber alone will be over 1500 bucks (you need armored/outdoor cable...jacks the cost up)

the ends and terminiation gear will probably run 200

then throw in 200 bucks for transceivers

so that would be my lowball estimate.

 

[networkman]

Were it me, I'd just put the fibre in a PVC pipe to protect it, same as I did for the Cat5 and electrical out to my garage. I do have experience with fibre, plus a 400' roll that I have yet to use for another upcoming project.

 

[PUfreak13]

networkman,
Would you recommend buying fiber optic cable from ebay or would you stay away from there? What mode and how many strands (I have no clue what the differences are) If there was anyway to save on the cable portion I think it would be feasible. Thanks

 

[DaiShan]

Wireless is NOT the best option. The latency will be extremely high at a quarter mile. I'd recommend Fiber if at all possible, if not you could use Coaxial, which would be cheaper, albeit not as cheap as wireless.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: PUfreak13
networkman,
Would you recommend buying fiber optic cable from ebay or would you stay away from there? What mode and how many strands (I have no clue what the differences are) If there was anyway to save on the cable portion I think it would be feasible. Thanks

Single Mode will go further, I don't remember the exact distance, you might be able to get away with multi mode.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: DaiShan
Wireless is NOT the best option. The latency will be extremely high at a quarter mile. I'd recommend Fiber if at all possible, if not you could use Coaxial, which would be cheaper, albeit not as cheap as wireless.

Whoah there cowboy. There will be very little latency with wireless. less than 10 ms which is just fine for a LAN.

And noway, nohow are you getting coax that far. Wireless actually is the best option given the requirement (get access 1300 feet away for cheap)

The question is can the OP actually do wireless given the circumstances.

 

[EatSpam]

A long time ago, I read an article about someone using an SDSL modem/router at each end of a twisted pair run .... probably cheaper than fiber and an SDSL signal can easily run 1280 ft.

Fiber is going to be the best option though... fast and with room to grow.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
A long time ago, I read an article about someone using an SDSL modem/router at each end of a twisted pair run .... probably cheaper than fiber and an SDSL signal can easily run 1280 ft.

Fiber is going to be the best option though... fast and with room to grow.

well if we want to go riggin' then two T1 CSU/DSUs at each end might work (lay cat5 under the ground - but then lighting and grounding comes into play). Depends on if they have enough power to drive the line. Can find them for 100 bucks I'm sure.

 

[JackMDS]

Depending on the height of the "Forrest",if you can put two Masts, one in each building and install above the (tree level + Fresnel) highly directional Antennae (along the line of the Antenna in your link), ypu might be able to bridge.

There are vendors that sell masts and Antennae and you can consult before you buy and price it.

Example: http://www.Hdcom.com

:sun:

 

[randal]

well if we want to go riggin' then two T1 CSU/DSUs at each end might work (lay cat5 under the ground - but then lighting and grounding comes into play). Depends on if they have enough power to drive the line. Can find them for 100 bucks I'm sure.

HAhahaaha been there, done that, will never, EVER do that again. We went through like 5 DSU/CSUs in a month. It was terrible.

Just run the fiber and do it right.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: randal

well if we want to go riggin' then two T1 CSU/DSUs at each end might work (lay cat5 under the ground - but then lighting and grounding comes into play). Depends on if they have enough power to drive the line. Can find them for 100 bucks I'm sure.

HAhahaaha been there, done that, will never, EVER do that again. We went through like 5 DSU/CSUs in a month. It was terrible.

Just run the fiber and do it right.

heh, hence why I didn't mention it. But its fun to laugh, no?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: randal

well if we want to go riggin' then two T1 CSU/DSUs at each end might work (lay cat5 under the ground - but then lighting and grounding comes into play). Depends on if they have enough power to drive the line. Can find them for 100 bucks I'm sure.

HAhahaaha been there, done that, will never, EVER do that again. We went through like 5 DSU/CSUs in a month. It was terrible.

Just run the fiber and do it right.

heh, hence why I didn't mention it. But its fun to laugh, no?

I don't have any experience with T1 DSU/CSUs... why did that experiment fail?

 

[spidey07]

ground potential between buildings.

any copper wire entering or leaving a structure must be grounded and bonded. Its mainly because the structures/eletrcial systems have differnet grounds.

Driving stuff at this speed requires super clean lines. stray voltage from a difference in ground results in damaging the sensitive electronics used.

<---not an electritrican, but knows to follow the code or suffer the consequences.

 

[skyking]

If you don't need blazing speed, run regular direct burial copper and use Cisco LRE gear. I just got a setup for a similar project. I get 12~14 Mbps over 400'. It is good for up to 5000'.