Contradiction in Arab cartoon views

[1prophet]

Blatantly anti-Semitic literature
Blatantly anti-Semitic literature is on sale in Cairo, just like many other Arab capitals. The BBC News website's Martin Patience reports on the apparent inconsistency in the Egyptian reaction to the Danish cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

Christians aren't exempt either.

Islam?s Anti-Christian Jihad

the great radical theorist Sayyid Qutb said that while ?Jews have been behind every calamity that has befallen the Muslim communities everywhere,? Christians ?have been no less hostile.?


But in my opinion what they, the radical islamists fear the most is not christians or jews but the secularists who believe anything can be questioned even religion yet they, the secularists are radical islamists greatest apologists not knowing they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

The secularists fight for seperation of church and state, the rights of women over their own bodies, the rights for same sex marriage, the right for swinger's clubs, yet all those rights and many more are for nought if the radical Islamists like this man have their way.

?We don?t shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world?,

?We must believe in the fact that Islam is not confined to geographical borders, ethnic groups and nations. It?s a universal ideology that leads the world to justice?, Ahmadinejad said.

?We don?t shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to rule the world?, he added.

Ahmadinejad dwelled on his recurrent theme that the return of the Shiite Messiah, the Mahdi, is not far away and Muslims must prepare for it.


This Canadian is willing to sacrifice all for the freedom of speech

St. Mary's University professor Peter March

Peter March, a logic professor with a penchant for religious debate, says he put the cartoons on his door to make a statement about academic freedom and promote debate on campus.


St. Mary's University professor Peter March has been told to remove the cartoons from his office door.
"I feel threatened by the crowds around the world shaking fists, shaking sticks, burning things down," he says. "I wish to make my stand, that here in Canada that won't wash."

The university took a dim view of March's statement and asked him to take the cartoons down on Tuesday. Because the school owns the outside of the door, he did.


Looks like the threat of violence trumps free speech, maybe he should stick to passing out porn for bibles.

 

[mOeeOm]

'Shop manager Mustapha Said insists that he is respectful of all religions including Judaism.

Ahmad Radwan
Ahmad Radwan, says books offensive to Jews should be banned

While he insists he believes in freedom of speech, he is furious about the cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

He argues that slandering any religion should be punishable.

But when it comes to selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, he says: "The book is about politics not about religion. I don't have a problem with books criticising politics."

At the American University of Cairo, many students agree with Mr Said's comments.

But Ahmed Radwan, 20, argues that if Jews are outraged by the book "then it shouldn't be sold."

He adds that Jews should take to the streets in protest about the Protocols.''

/thread

 

[couppi]

We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to be destroyed...

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
'Shop manager Mustapha Said insists that he is respectful of all religions including Judaism.

Ahmad Radwan
Ahmad Radwan, says books offensive to Jews should be banned

While he insists he believes in freedom of speech, he is furious about the cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

He argues that slandering any religion should be punishable.

But when it comes to selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, he says: "The book is about politics not about religion. I don't have a problem with books criticising politics."

At the American University of Cairo, many students agree with Mr Said's comments.

But Ahmed Radwan, 20, argues that if Jews are outraged by the book "then it shouldn't be sold."

He adds that Jews should take to the streets in protest about the Protocols.''

/thread

So if they burn some embassies or riot in the streets they will be vindicated according to your post?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
'Shop manager Mustapha Said insists that he is respectful of all religions including Judaism.

Ahmad Radwan
Ahmad Radwan, says books offensive to Jews should be banned

While he insists he believes in freedom of speech, he is furious about the cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

He argues that slandering any religion should be punishable.

But when it comes to selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, he says: "The book is about politics not about religion. I don't have a problem with books criticising politics."

At the American University of Cairo, many students agree with Mr Said's comments.

But Ahmed Radwan, 20, argues that if Jews are outraged by the book "then it shouldn't be sold."

He adds that Jews should take to the streets in protest about the Protocols.''

/thread

The Mohammed cartoons are more political than Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

/protests?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Muslims Express Outrage over cartoons - destruction and murder still okay.

 

[0roo0roo]

muslims have zero credibility on the issue of tolerance/sensitivity

 

[0roo0roo]

and if u didn't know already, the protocols of the elders of zion isn't political at all, its fraudulent and simply hate propaganda. its one that the muslim world embraces though, teaching it in their schools, making it a best seller year after year, proving their ignorance and how their judgement is based on the foundation of false ideas. once again, zero credibility.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

 

[0roo0roo]

go figure, mein kampf best seller in turkey too.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005409.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005524.php
protocols sold in department stores..lol. and turkey is supposed to be the moderate one

well thats what you want to expand the eu into? hitler loving turkey? meh

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

The Mohammed cartoons are more political than Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

/protests?

I think it is more about the figures. The Protocols (isn't that some 19th century Russian Document that isn't true? LOL...) issome some racist thing talking about Jews controlling the world. While I haven't read them nor do I really care, do the protocols engage in Bashing Moses?

What people fail to realize is that while many people are anti Isreal, and some of the stuff that is published is extremely anti-semitic, they would never never dare touch or say anything bad about Moses. Just because they insult (note: doesn't mean it is justified) Jews improperly doesn't mean they have a problem with Moses at all.

I agree that Arab countries (heck I still think the "first world" has a problem with it as well) have issues with women rights. We should have every right to criticize them based on that . However, to say that this dated back to the Prophet Mohammed, and that he is the reason for this (or atlesat allowed it to continue) would be an absolute falsehood based on history and I would argue that he empowered women, not oppressed them. That is why you piss them off (among the whole "Please don't draw any fvcking picture")

So I would be interested in finding anti-semitic literature from the arab world that bashed Jews because of Moses, because of Joseph...not because of what is going on right now

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

The Mohammed cartoons are more political than Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

/protests?

I think it is more about the figures. The Protocols (isn't that some 19th century Russian Document that isn't true? LOL...) issome some racist thing talking about Jews controlling the world. While I haven't read them nor do I really care, do the protocols engage in Bashing Moses?

What people fail to realize is that while many people are anti Isreal, and some of the stuff that is published is extremely anti-semitic, they would never never dare touch or say anything bad about Moses.

The reason they don't insult Moses is because Jewish people don't care. Insult is only good when the target reacts to it. If Jews were offended by insults to Moses, they'd become second nature to much of the world in record time.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
go figure, mein kampf best seller in turkey too.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005409.php
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005524.php
protocols sold in department stores..lol. and turkey is supposed to be the moderate one

well thats what you want to expand the eu into? hitler loving turkey? meh

If anything I'm suprised any Muslim or Arab cares about Mein Kampf. Aside from the fact that it is supposed to be not well written and without focus, the reason Isreal exists today is because of Hitler.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

The Mohammed cartoons are more political than Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

/protests?

I think it is more about the figures. The Protocols (isn't that some 19th century Russian Document that isn't true? LOL...) issome some racist thing talking about Jews controlling the world. While I haven't read them nor do I really care, do the protocols engage in Bashing Moses?

What people fail to realize is that while many people are anti Isreal, and some of the stuff that is published is extremely anti-semitic, they would never never dare touch or say anything bad about Moses.

The reason they don't insult Moses is because Jewish people don't care. Insult is only good when the target reacts to it. If Jews were offended by insults to Moses, they'd become second nature to much of the world in record time.

Are you so sure about that? I just never have noticed slurs or anything bad about Moses (you'll see why in a second) You won't find Muslim insults to Moses The guy isn't the most mentioned prophet in the Quran for nothing

 

[DaveSimmons]

According to Charles Krauthammer's column today (which I'll grant isn't the most reliable source) there is a TV series based on that Protocols of the Elders of Zion book that shows Jewish rabbis slaughtering gentile children to drink their blood.

That seems like an attack on the Jewish faith to me.

Syria and Egypt
"In October - November 2002, Egyptian TV featured a similar 41-part series based on the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion," ... includes a heinous dramatization of the killing of a Christian child and the use of his blood to make matzah."

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: couppi
We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to be destroyed...

Your "we" doesn't include me. WTF are you to be saying crap like that? :roll:

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
According to Charles Krauthammer's column today (which I'll grant isn't the most reliable source) there is a TV series based on that Protocols of the Elders of Zion book that shows Jewish rabbis slaughtering gentile children to drink their blood.

That seems like an attack on the Jewish faith to me.

I have no respect for anything Krauthammer says, but there are dark, ugly parts in the history of any religion. Christianty has nothing to be proud of in the Crusades, the Inquisition, and there are plenty of other examples throughout history in other religions, as well.

I think it's more important to get beyond the past of any religion and try to understand where they are, today. There are more than enough things wrong in the present versions of most religions to waste time getting hung up in the past.

Of course, that's part of why I'm an atheist.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Charles K. is actually telling the truth for once, see the Eqypt/Syria link I added above. Iran has also made at least one program based on the Protocols hoax book.

I agree that most religions have a dark past, it's just that Islam / muslims seem to still be living a couple of centuries behind the rest of us. Western societies have moved past crusades and inquisitions, they have not.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: couppi
We don't shy away from declaring that Islam is ready to be destroyed...

No mortal man will be able to destroy Islam.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Charles K. is actually telling the truth for once, see the Eqypt/Syria link I added above. Iran has also made at least one program based on the Protocols hoax book.

I agree that most religions have a dark past, it's just that Islam / muslims seem to still be living a couple of centuries behind the rest of us. Western societies have moved past crusades and inquisitions, they have not.

umm, i doubt it. in those lands they treat women how we treated blacks in the US not too long ago.

 

[mOeeOm]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Charles K. is actually telling the truth for once, see the Eqypt/Syria link I added above. Iran has also made at least one program based on the Protocols hoax book.

I agree that most religions have a dark past, it's just that Islam / muslims seem to still be living a couple of centuries behind the rest of us. Western societies have moved past crusades and inquisitions, they have not.

umm, i doubt it. in those lands they treat women how we treated blacks in the US not too long ago.

Good thing blacks finally got the just treatment they deserve two days ago.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

The Mohammed cartoons are more political than Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

/protests?

I think it is more about the figures. The Protocols (isn't that some 19th century Russian Document that isn't true? LOL...) issome some racist thing talking about Jews controlling the world. While I haven't read them nor do I really care, do the protocols engage in Bashing Moses?

What people fail to realize is that while many people are anti Isreal, and some of the stuff that is published is extremely anti-semitic, they would never never dare touch or say anything bad about Moses. Just because they insult (note: doesn't mean it is justified) Jews improperly doesn't mean they have a problem with Moses at all.

I agree that Arab countries (heck I still think the "first world" has a problem with it as well) have issues with women rights. We should have every right to criticize them based on that . However, to say that this dated back to the Prophet Mohammed, and that he is the reason for this (or atlesat allowed it to continue) would be an absolute falsehood based on history and I would argue that he empowered women, not oppressed them. That is why you piss them off (among the whole "Please don't draw any fvcking picture")

So I would be interested in finding anti-semitic literature from the arab world that bashed Jews because of Moses, because of Joseph...not because of what is going on right now

Are you claiming that the only way for people to be offended is if their religious characters are mocked or insulted?

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Charles K. is actually telling the truth for once, see the Eqypt/Syria link I added above. Iran has also made at least one program based on the Protocols hoax book.

I agree that most religions have a dark past, it's just that Islam / muslims seem to still be living a couple of centuries behind the rest of us. Western societies have moved past crusades and inquisitions, they have not.

umm, i doubt it. in those lands they treat women how we treated blacks in the US not too long ago.

Apples to apples, they treat women how the US treated women in the 1800s.

The Saudis treat their imported servants not too differently than how the US treated blacks in the mid-1800s.

In Afghanistan they kill teachers for trying to give women an education.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you claiming that the only way for people to be offended is if their religious characters are mocked or insulted?

No. I'm saying deferring problems and pointing at religion as the root cause is not right, because it is always always incorrect (What religion even KEEPS followers if it is that "Wrong").

In the case of Islam, it specifically forbids renditions of Prophet Mohammed. So when you do draw him, and then draw him in a bad light (especially if it is not true), it will create a LOT of problems.

Now in reponse to think many people have said "Who cares, they probably drew pictures of Jesus saying he was stupid". In response, no that would not have occured because, A) He is a prophet of god and is revered, and B) because of his status he is also not drawn.

Then we take it to the next part: anti semitism. The thread says "do as I say, not as I do". So when we say don't draw pictures of prophet mohammed, we tell you not to do it. But in return we will draw pictures of Moses.
That is where I disagree. There are anti-semtic cartoons and those are completely wrong and should not exist. But the vast majority is a complaint at Isreal: and the government actively states that it is a "land for jews" and is completely dominated by Jewish Isrealis. Therefore to see a government official in a politicial cartoon wearing a Jewish skullcap and have devil horns and pitch fork is not stating "Jewish people are Evill, they are the devil!". Rather it is says "The State of Isreal is Evil, they are the devil" with the Yamakah signifying that it is the government of Isreal.
You don't see the Torah burned, Moses drawn as a bastard child, the religion villfied in general. You see the certain "FOLLOWERS" demonized for their actions.
This is in direct contradiction to what often happens towards Muslims. You see a picture of Mohammed with a bomb on his head --> Islam is an evil terrorizing religion. You see "Mohammed" keeping a woman oppressed. You see a "Quran for Dummies" as having "tabs" where it says "Jihad" "Suicide Bombing" "Infidel" and then a troop saying "IS there anything about gratitude in there?" to mock him and say that Islam is again a violent religion. Does that violence (ie: Iraq in this instance) truly have a basis in RELIGION? Or is just one of the many things USED for this, where the real problem lies in the invasion itself and the aftermath of it?


I haven't seen cartoons being blatantly racist towards jews as a religion . Even in the worst anti semitic cartoons (such as the one of rats going into a "palestinian home" where the rats have a star of david symbol on their hat) have some kind of political meaning to the STATE of Isreal. Even when compared with the "GI asking for gratitude" cartoon, the latter is aimed to say that the Quran is some kind of wiked book, whereas the former is saying "The Isrealis(signified by start of david on the mice) "dirty people" (don't feel like using words that get too racist, but for the sake of the cartoon that is the point they are saying) are really the ones in control of palestinian land".

There is a huge difference between that, and showing a picture of Mohammed with a sword threatening two ladies. The latter is poised to say "Islam is a wife beater religion". Something in which I would agree (again, this is starting to be my own personal interpreations) with would be having an Arab man beat his wife while pretending not to see the Quran on the table. Because the it would be factually correct as to the situation: many Arab countries have a women's rights problem, in defiance of what they religion allegedly says.

I hope I'm a little more clear.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: beyoku

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
Charles K. is actually telling the truth for once, see the Eqypt/Syria link I added above. Iran has also made at least one program based on the Protocols hoax book.

I agree that most religions have a dark past, it's just that Islam / muslims seem to still be living a couple of centuries behind the rest of us. Western societies have moved past crusades and inquisitions, they have not.

umm, i doubt it. in those lands they treat women how we treated blacks in the US not too long ago.

Apples to apples, they treat women how the US treated women in the 1800s.

The Saudis treat their imported servants not too differently than how the US treated blacks in the mid-1800s.

In Afghanistan they kill teachers for trying to give women an education.

U sure about the "kill teachers for trying to give woman an eduction"? I don't see where it is Islamic or Muslim at all, and would contend that with thousands of examples where women DO receive education. That sounds like a chauvanistic man thing than a "ISlam is a few hundred years behind thing"

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: magomago

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you claiming that the only way for people to be offended is if their religious characters are mocked or insulted?

No. I'm saying deferring problems and pointing at religion as the root cause is not right, because it is always always incorrect (What religion even KEEPS followers if it is that "Wrong").

In the case of Islam, it specifically forbids renditions of Prophet Mohammed. So when you do draw him, and then draw him in a bad light (especially if it is not true), it will create a LOT of problems.

Now in reponse to think many people have said "Who cares, they probably drew pictures of Jesus saying he was stupid". In response, no that would not have occured because, A) He is a prophet of god and is revered, and B) because of his status he is also not drawn.

Then we take it to the next part: anti semitism. The thread says "do as I say, not as I do". So when we say don't draw pictures of prophet mohammed, we tell you not to do it. But in return we will draw pictures of Moses.
That is where I disagree. There are anti-semtic cartoons and those are completely wrong and should not exist. But the vast majority is a complaint at Isreal: and the government actively states that it is a "land for jews" and is completely dominated by Jewish Isrealis. Therefore to see a government official in a politicial cartoon wearing a Jewish skullcap and have devil horns and pitch fork is not stating "Jewish people are Evill, they are the devil!". Rather it is says "The State of Isreal is Evil, they are the devil" with the Yamakah signifying that it is the government of Isreal.
You don't see the Torah burned, Moses drawn as a bastard child, the religion villfied in general. You see the certain "FOLLOWERS" demonized for their actions.
This is in direct contradiction to what often happens towards Muslims. You see a picture of Mohammed with a bomb on his head --> Islam is an evil terrorizing religion. You see "Mohammed" keeping a woman oppressed. You see a "Quran for Dummies" as having "tabs" where it says "Jihad" "Suicide Bombing" "Infidel" and then a troop saying "IS there anything about gratitude in there?" to mock him and say that Islam is again a violent religion. Does that violence (ie: Iraq in this instance) truly have a basis in RELIGION? Or is just one of the many things USED for this, where the real problem lies in the invasion itself and the aftermath of it?


I haven't seen cartoons being blatantly racist towards jews as a religion . Even in the worst anti semitic cartoons (such as the one of rats going into a "palestinian home" where the rats have a star of david symbol on their hat) have some kind of political meaning to the STATE of Isreal. Even when compared with the "GI asking for gratitude" cartoon, the latter is aimed to say that the Quran is some kind of wiked book, whereas the former is saying "The Isrealis(signified by start of david on the mice) "dirty people" (don't feel like using words that get too racist, but for the sake of the cartoon that is the point they are saying) are really the ones in control of palestinian land".

There is a huge difference between that, and showing a picture of Mohammed with a sword threatening two ladies. The latter is poised to say "Islam is a wife beater religion". Something in which I would agree (again, this is starting to be my own personal interpreations) with would be having an Arab man beat his wife while pretending not to see the Quran on the table. Because the it would be factually correct as to the situation: many Arab countries have a women's rights problem, in defiance of what they religion allegedly says.

I hope I'm a little more clear.

QFT.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: magomago

I haven't seen cartoons being blatantly racist towards jews as a religion . Even in the worst anti semitic cartoons (such as the one of rats going into a "palestinian home" where the rats have a star of david symbol on their hat) have some kind of political meaning to the STATE of Isreal. Even when compared with the "GI asking for gratitude" cartoon, the latter is aimed to say that the Quran is some kind of wiked book, whereas the former is saying "The Isrealis(signified by start of david on the mice) "dirty people" (don't feel like using words that get too racist, but for the sake of the cartoon that is the point they are saying) are really the ones in control of palestinian land".

There is a huge difference between that, and showing a picture of Mohammed with a sword threatening two ladies. The latter is poised to say "Islam is a wife beater religion". Something in which I would agree (again, this is starting to be my own personal interpreations) with would be having an Arab man beat his wife while pretending not to see the Quran on the table. Because the it would be factually correct as to the situation: many Arab countries have a women's rights problem, in defiance of what they religion allegedly says.

I hope I'm a little more clear.

I see a lot of anti-semitism in the cartoons. Some are anti-Israeli, and some are plain anti-semitic, and some are both anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli. However, cartoons are open to interpretation. I don't see the Mohammed cartoons as claiming that Islam is an evil terrorizing religion.