Contradiction in Arab cartoon views

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lyssword

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2005
5,630
25
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to me it would seem islamic/arabic countries (not all, take malaysia/indonesia 4 example they treat women ok) are bout from 50-200 yrs behind in development of human rights etc behind western countries. I'm not saying western countries r perefect but seems to me they (west+us)are definetly ahead in terms of human rights..
 

CSMR

Golden Member
Apr 24, 2004
1,376
2
81
[q=1prophet]Contradiction in Arab cartoon views
Topic Summary: Do as I say not as I do.[/quote]
Some pedantry from me, useful I think to avoid overstepping in arguments:
Contradiction: saying something in opposition to something else that has been said.
Hypocrisy: inconsistency between words and actions (in Greek "acting")
Doing an action x in one situation and y in another is not necessarily either.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
'Shop manager Mustapha Said insists that he is respectful of all religions including Judaism.

Ahmad Radwan
Ahmad Radwan, says books offensive to Jews should be banned

While he insists he believes in freedom of speech, he is furious about the cartoons caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad.

He argues that slandering any religion should be punishable.

Then, apparently, he doesn't really believe in "freedom of speech", but rather just the parts he agrees with.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Meanwhile in Pakistan, rioting, burning and looting in the name of the prophet.

"The protesters also looted the office of Telenor, a Norwegian mobile phone company, and people ran away with computers, mobile phones and other equipment, witnesses said."
 

Boy Hits Car

Member
Mar 24, 2005
71
0
0
But when it comes to selling the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, he says: "The book is about politics not about religion. I don't have a problem with books criticising politics."

Odd, anyone paying attention to the Middle East knows that Islam plays an absolute vital and prominent role in politics. I mean Hamas is a political party that uses suicide bombings as military engagement; they call it a Jihad or Fatwa against Israel and scream Allah Ackbar during detonation. Everyday I hear liberals say that Al Queda and fanatical suiciders are attacking the US because of political reasons, yet they use Islam as their driving force. I would contend that radical Islam is a political movement; consequently, the quote above justifies the Danish cartoons as legitimate criticism.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Why is it within reason to allow muslims to preach that Islam should take over all other religions and it is not within reason to do the same for chrisianity?

Sounds like hypocracy!

I never saw why we allow the press to relate all of the Muslim generated ant-western hate speech. It should be illegal to publish hate speech! Maybe they should consider more documentaries on the Nazi Party and Isreal, and maybe the Klu-Klux-Klan. All of the alternetives seem rather tame to muslim extremists that get all of the air time on the news.

I think the best solution is to have the west just not broadcast Extremists views. It just fuels the hatred of all the radical groups. I dont even watch the network news because it is all slanted to the liberal side. Most of what they broadcast is not really beneficial to the public. They very seldom broadcast the whole story one way or another on any issue. They just pick the slant they want and pick the bits they have that support it and then they have the nerve to call themselves a journalist.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
No. I'm saying deferring problems and pointing at religion as the root cause is not right, because it is always always incorrect (What religion even KEEPS followers if it is that "Wrong").

very easily, someone always benifits. you might as well ask how do oppressive regiems continue to exist? religion is passed down through familys and culture, it is indoctrination and people when allowed to run amuck wtih self righteousness enjoy keeping tabs on others.


In the case of Islam, it specifically forbids renditions of Prophet Mohammed. So when you do draw him, and then draw him in a bad light (especially if it is not true), it will create a LOT of problems.

the problems are with the thin skins of the followers, not with the other people who are not of the faith.


Now in reponse to think many people have said "Who cares, they probably drew pictures of Jesus saying he was stupid". In response, no that would not have occured because, A) He is a prophet of god and is revered, and B) because of his status he is also not drawn.

that is their religious taboo and should not be applied to anyone else. i do not stop eating beef because hindus don't eat cows.

Then we take it to the next part: anti semitism. The thread says "do as I say, not as I do". So when we say don't draw pictures of prophet mohammed, we tell you not to do it. But in return we will draw pictures of Moses.
That is where I disagree. There are anti-semtic cartoons and those are completely wrong and should not exist. But the vast majority is a complaint at Isreal: and the government actively states that it is a "land for jews" and is completely dominated by Jewish Isrealis. Therefore to see a government official in a politicial cartoon wearing a Jewish skullcap and have devil horns and pitch fork is not stating "Jewish people are Evill, they are the devil!". Rather it is says "The State of Isreal is Evil, they are the devil" with the Yamakah signifying that it is the government of Isreal.
You don't see the Torah burned, Moses drawn as a bastard child, the religion villfied in general. You see the certain "FOLLOWERS" demonized for their actions.
This is in direct contradiction to what often happens towards Muslims. You see a picture of Mohammed with a bomb on his head --> Islam is an evil terrorizing religion. You see "Mohammed" keeping a woman oppressed. You see a "Quran for Dummies" as having "tabs" where it says "Jihad" "Suicide Bombing" "Infidel" and then a troop saying "IS there anything about gratitude in there?" to mock him and say that Islam is again a violent religion. Does that violence (ie: Iraq in this instance) truly have a basis in RELIGION? Or is just one of the many things USED for this, where the real problem lies in the invasion itself and the aftermath of it?

this arguement would have more credibility if the region was not obviously infected with virulent antisemitism. it goes far beyond just a valid concern and valid arguements, it goes into religious reasonings for religious bigotry and the indoctrination of hate. the actions of israel are by a secular democratic state. the violent or oppressive actions taken by muslims are done in the name of islam.


I haven't seen cartoons being blatantly racist towards jews as a religion . Even in the worst anti semitic cartoons (such as the one of rats going into a "palestinian home" where the rats have a star of david symbol on their hat) have some kind of political meaning to the STATE of Isreal. Even when compared with the "GI asking for gratitude" cartoon, the latter is aimed to say that the Quran is some kind of wiked book, whereas the former is saying "The Isrealis(signified by start of david on the mice) "dirty people" (don't feel like using words that get too racist, but for the sake of the cartoon that is the point they are saying) are really the ones in control of palestinian land".

ugh, we are talking of a region rife with holocaust denial. it goes far beyond valid criticisms of "israel". cartoons with holocaust denial are printed all the time. it is the place after all where even a leader of a country isn't embarrassed in the slightest to deny the holocaust in public. let alone the conspiracy theories putting the jews as responsible for 9/11 or that they control america. the popularity of the protocols of the elders of zion is also damning. this is the culture that these antisemitic cartoons cater to. sorry this isn't valid criticism of "israel", its based on unreasoning irrational hate.it goes far far beyond valid criticism of ideology and becomes hate propaganda invoking falsehoods, it mirrors the dehumanization of jews by the nazis. blood libel, global conspiracys and all that nonsense. the iranian newspaper's contest last week on finding the 12 best holocaust cartoons should make it clear to you it is nothing close to being similar to the situation with the mohammed cartoons. one is a valid criticism, the other is taking joy in genocide.

its all the more clearer we are dealing with outright hatred not rational disagreemtns when arab "revenge" cartoons supposedly for striking back at the danes always seemed to involve not danes.. but israel or the jews.



In this cartoon, from Al-Watan newspaper in Qatar (June 23, 2002), Ariel Sharon is shown watching on the sidelines as an Israeli plane crashes into New York?s World Trade Center. The Arabic words alongside the Twin Towers are ?The Peace.? This cartoon restates the widely held myth in the Arab world that Israel and the Jews were responsible for the 9/11 attacks which were in fact carried out by al-Qaeda.
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/img/arabcartoons02.jpg
In this cartoon, from Al-Watan (Oman) (August 10, 2002), Jewish acts are equated with those of the Nazis. This Nazi-type anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew has a hooked nose, a hunched back, has no shoes, and is sweating.
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/img/arabcartoons06.jpg

In the above cartoon, from Akhbar Al-Khalij (Bahrain) (June 10, 2002), the anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew on the right says: ?Say: ?I hate the Arabs!?? and American president George W. Bush, made to resemble a parrot, repeats: ?I hate the Arabs, I hate the Arabs.?
This cartoon, from the Syrian newspaper Al-Ahram (May 29, 2002), shows an anti-Semitic caricature of a Jew with a long beard and hooked nose, fuelling the ?World Media? with ?Zionist Media? propaganda, while in the background bombs are falling on the Moslem al-Aqsa shrine on Jerusalem?s Temple Mount. This cartoon stereotypes Jews, repeats the anti-Semitic myth that the Jews control the world media, and adds the lie that the Israeli government has damaged the al-Aqsa complex on the Temple Mount.
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/img/arabcartoons10.jpg
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/img/arabcartoons07.jpg
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/ArabCartoons.htm

even worse than the nazi's even

"In the German caricatures," Stav says referring to the Der Stürmer cartoons, "you never saw what they wanted to do to the Jews. But in the Arab caricatures, they show exactly how they want to kill them, murder them and annihilate Israel."http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,400161,00.html




Major Anti-Semitic Motifs in Arab Cartoons
http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm


Anti-Semitism in the Arab World
http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/default.htm
 
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