copyright/IP poll.

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
I favor Amending the Constitution to take away the Federal Government's power to issue copyrights and patents. Why you might ask? Because it raises the costs of things and kills creativity. It's also too expensive to enforce, there are simultaneous inventions, and IP is not physical, so even if someone else uses an invention they didn't create, the creator still has it.

I've been criticized for thinking of things only in black and white, so there are several options in the polls.

How would you reform copyrights and IP? Or would you keep them the same?
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
I dont think patents should be extended and I think that copyrights should expire after a certain number of years. I do think that an author of a novel or book should own the copyrights to the book till they die. However, in the case of a company or corporation the copyright should not last that long. I dont think that producers or companies should be able to own copyrights forever, so they should expire say after 5 -20 years.

It is to the point now that a song that was written over 100 years ago still has a copyright. If you want to do a simple thing like print a church hymnal you have to get special permission for every song you use. Some of the songs may be over 200 years old.
 
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Corn

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 1999
6,389
29
91
If you want to kill creativity, allow people to steal each other's creative ideas. OP is a moron.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Patent reform, particularly in the software arena is absolutely necessary. I generally agree, however, that patents are an important part of innovation. I see that every day where I work. We hold multiple patents on inventions of ours, which fuels our innovation.

Truthfully, most patent violators are just lazy. They don't bother to check what else is out there and just do something a certain way. Often, there are other ways to accomplish the same thing.

Also any chance you could summarize the video for us that are at work or can't watch?
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
The real relevant part of the video is how locking down intellectual property stifles innovation because creativity is almost entirely based on previous creativity.

I'm not advocating the complete abolishing of patents and copyrights, but there has to be a way where these ideas can be released to see what other folks can do with them.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I favor Amending the Constitution to take away the Federal Government's power to issue copyrights and patents. Why you might ask? Because it raises the costs of things and kills creativity.

Oh, brother. Do you have any idea why they were created?

Without them, the person who makes IP gets little compensation - and so doesn't do it.

That is essential for our culture. The abuse of the laws by corporations who expand them beyond this for excessive profit are a second issue.

I've been criticized for thinking of things only in black and white, so there are several options in the polls.

Notice almost everyone so far has used one of those 'other options', the one recognizing the need for protection, and for reforms against the abuse of them.

'Raises the cost of things'. So does paying ANYONE for their services.

Do you not understand that the alternative is not an explosion of the same quality content for free, but a wasteland without the content? Think 'garage bands' for music. Think of amateur writers for books. Think worse than 'Porky's' for movies. Think 'public access' for TV. Perhaps to better hit home, think 'GILF' (Grandma I'd Like to Flee) for porn.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Watch and see how you're wrong.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/88782/rip-a-remix-manifesto

Better example, here is what can happen when it's given away freely:
http://remix.nin.com/

I'm writing a novel, expecting that when it gets published I'll make a certain amount per copy sold over the life of the copyright. And maybe there will be film rights and profits from tie-ins.

If copyright protection is abolished, meaning that anyone can copy for free any book I write and legally sell as many copies as they want, or can use characters I create without paying me compensation, or can make a movie from my novel without paying me anything, what possible reason (other than the pursuit of a time-consuming hobby) would I have for spending countless hours creating a novel in the first place?

People who advocate abandonment of IP protection are basically trying to rationalize their own theft of IP. They want to pretend that they're entitled to the fruits of someone else's labor for free. Of course, if you ask these thieves to work for free, they'd be outraged at the notion.

The honorable thing to do if you're not willing to pay the going rate for a product is to simply forego the product.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,822
4,380
126
Patents, trademarks, copyrights, etc. laws are generally written with the proper spirit. However, their application in real life is a mockery of that spirit. I'll focus on patents here since they are often the most useful.

I am an engineer who creates new ideas, designs / develops those ideas, and some of them make it onto the market. I couldn't do what I do without patents. No one would fund my work since that would be a risk that wouldn't have any foreseeable reward (someone could just copy it instantly and undercut the company who had to pay for R&D). So, the idea that they can attempt to make a profit without piracy for a set number of years is necessary.

But, we have to keep in mind the spirit of the laws. In exchange for the right to forbid others from copying your ideas you are supposed to teach the world how to make your novel, non-obvious, and specific ideas. And therein lies the problem. The way that they are used now, patents are breaking that spirit. The four key parts in bold need to be reformed as they are broken.

1) The teach the world part has been a joke for quite some time. Most patents are written now to hide the actual workings of the idea. Most patents now are buried in a pile of other patents so they are nearly impossible to find (even after paying a patent attorney $20k+). Most patents now give so many non-specific information that even if you find the patent you still don't know which combination is the right combination. Etc. Then you have the issue of submarine patents, often bought by patent trolls, hiding hoping that someone will violate it and then can be sued. A hidden patent isn't teaching the world how to make and use your idea.

2) Too many patents are issued for non-novel ideas. Take the antacid drug Prilosec/Nexium as a blatant example. Prilosec was a combination of two drugs (two forms of the same molecule, but one was optically the reverse of the other). As Prilosec's patent was about to expire, the patent office gave AstraZeneca a brand new patent with a new starting point for Nexium (which is just one of the two drugs in a pill instead of both). I'm sorry, but if you patent and sell a set of pencils with one pencil painted yellow and one painted green, it isn't novel to sell just the green pencil alone.

3) Too many patents are issued for obvious changes. To keep the post small, the Prilosec/Nexium would be a good example to consider here. If both forms of the drug are the same, then it is obvious that just one would perform well.

4) Specificity has been long lost. I've seen patents that have thousands of claimed dimensions for the same item and thousands more dimensions for every other item in the invention. The total number of combinations are in the trillions or more. Yet, they are only selling one item, because only one combination works well. They should patent that one combination. But instead they hope to patent the entire world and hope to catch someone on an unrelated product. Sorry, that shouldn't be allowed.

The reverse of course is true from the opposite side. Try to patent anything and you are 100% guaranteed to be rejected since they'll claim your better cleaning toothbrush patent application is an obvious result of my patent on a faster computer processor. Of course, that is a rediculus conclusion. But, then you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to a patent attorney to fight that rediculus decision. Patents have turned into a mockery.
 
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Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
16
81
I'm ok with copyright per se, but don't like the fact that corporate interests are now perpetually extending it and not allowing newer creative works to fall into the public domain.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0

Nailed it from my perspective. Patents need to be issued for more well-defined things and certain types of patenting needs to be rethought. The best examples I can think of are in software, where we have companies that own patents on retrieving email on a wireless device or rollover menus on the internet.

Give me a break.

Patents need to balance the risk / reward for the inventor with fair use for the general public.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
"Because it raises the costs of things and kills creativity. "


i'll disagree and say that profits drive creativity.

it costs money to make shit.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
I'm writing a novel, expecting that when it gets published I'll make a certain amount per copy sold over the life of the copyright. And maybe there will be film rights and profits from tie-ins.

If copyright protection is abolished, meaning that anyone can copy for free any book I write and legally sell as many copies as they want, or can use characters I create without paying me compensation, or can make a movie from my novel without paying me anything, what possible reason (other than the pursuit of a time-consuming hobby) would I have for spending countless hours creating a novel in the first place?

People who advocate abandonment of IP protection are basically trying to rationalize their own theft of IP. They want to pretend that they're entitled to the fruits of someone else's labor for free. Of course, if you ask these thieves to work for free, they'd be outraged at the notion.

The honorable thing to do if you're not willing to pay the going rate for a product is to simply forego the product.

I never once advocated simple consumption/replication of someone else's IP without consent. And if you read my very next post nor do I call for abolishing patents and copyrights. But there has to be a fair distinction drawn where a derivative work becomes its own original idea because everything is derivative of someone else's work. The words, themes, plots, style, etc. of your novel has been influenced by the works of others. Nothing is created in a vacuum, which is precisely why perpetually locking down everyone's creative ideas will stifle innovation over the long term.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
We get it. You don't like government, and you don't want government interfering with anything.

Seriously, how many of these threads do you have planned?
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
"Because it raises the costs of things and kills creativity. "

i'll disagree and say that profits drive creativity.

it costs money to make shit.
Imagine how much more Apple iPhone customers would have to pay if Apple paid Nokia for using their GSM patent.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Imagine how much more Apple iPhone customers would have to pay if Apple paid Nokia for using their GSM patent.

Cell phone companies cross-license that kind of technology all the time. Its nothing new, and it hasn't driven prices through the roof.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
Cell phone companies cross-license that kind of technology all the time. Its nothing new, and it hasn't driven prices through the roof.
But Apple didn't in this case. It outright stole it.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Patents need to be reigned in and only granted for TRULY novel ideas. It seems the USPTO will just rubber stamp anything that comes through the doors these days. Just witness the mess that is software patents.

Copyright needs to be brought back down to a reasonable length. Most people have to keep going back to work every day if they want to get paid. Why should the artist, the artist's children, and the artists grandchildren all be able to get a free ride off of a single work? That doesn't encourage new works, it encourages fighting for longer copyright. Bring it back down to 20 years and you'll see an explosion of new works because creators will have to compete with 20 year old works that are now in the public domain. Because honestly, I just don't see how John Lennon's songs and artwork being copyrighted are going to convince him to create anything more at this point.
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Patents need to be reigned in and only granted for TRULY novel ideas. It seems the USPTO will just rubber stamp anything that comes through the doors these days. Just witness the mess that is software patents.

So how does some kid sitting in a cubicle at the USPTO know if something is truly novel? What's the standard? Is it arbitrary?

Last year, the USPTO was just rejecting everything. Some of the rejections were based off of complete crap. Now this year it seems like they're allowing everything, probably to generate more revenue.

Patents are messed up - the system needs to be reformed, but it's going to be tough to implement proper reform.
 
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