copyright/IP poll.

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Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
And adds to the price of the end product.

which is a better alternative then letting your competitors steal all your ideas until all that R&D/money is worthless.

profit drives R&D drives creativity.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
which is a better alternative then letting your competitors steal all your ideas until all that R&D/money is worthless.

profit drives R&D drives creativity.
But Apple just stole Nokia's idea and is making a nice profit off of it.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
In Anarchist's dream world there would be no laws or police, so Apple and Nokia would have private armies to settle this the old fashioned way.

Victory or death!
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
I favor Amending the Constitution to take away the Federal Government's power to issue copyrights and patents. Why you might ask? Because it raises the costs of things and kills creativity. It's also too expensive to enforce, there are simultaneous inventions, and IP is not physical, so even if someone else uses an invention they didn't create, the creator still has it.

Patents and copyrights were included in the Constitution to encourage creative productivity by protecting the rights of those who produce new, original ideas and works to earn a return on their creative output.

I have two patents and a number of copyrights. I've never had to defend my copyrights. I have had to defend my patent rights.

Talk to us again AFTER you invent, compose, write or otherwise create something of value and original enough to merit patent or copyright protection. Second thought, wait until after someone rips your ass for the income and rewards that SHOULD HAVE been yours from such work.

Until then, you've made it clear that you'll never understand, and your opinion on the subject is utterly meaningless.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
LOL.

Harvey.

Nobody (including the establishment and their patent treasure trove) cares about you. Your patents are easily ignored. Do you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to support a patent battle? I thought not. Patents benefits massive corporations, not you.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I never once advocated simple consumption/replication of someone else's IP without consent. And if you read my very next post nor do I call for abolishing patents and copyrights. But there has to be a fair distinction drawn where a derivative work becomes its own original idea because everything is derivative of someone else's work. The words, themes, plots, style, etc. of your novel has been influenced by the works of others. Nothing is created in a vacuum, which is precisely why perpetually locking down everyone's creative ideas will stifle innovation over the long term.

I don't understand what you're saying.

You *can* write your own book about a boy wizard taken to a magic academy, if you want.
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
I don't understand what you're saying.

You *can* write your own book about a boy wizard taken to a magic academy, if you want.

That's exactly my point. As long as prior elements are free to be used in new works, new works can continue to be created. We are heading in the opposite direction with copyrights and patents, starting to lock down the very elements that creativity is based upon.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
That's exactly my point. As long as prior elements are free to be used in new works, new works can continue to be created. We are heading in the opposite direction with copyrights and patents, starting to lock down the very elements that creativity is based upon.

I don't see any threats coming to Gonad the Wizard Boy. Where are you seeing this?

I'm not saying there aren't problems - look at greedy Paul Allen's lawsuits - but not the ones you are suggesting, and I'm still not clear what you're saying is in danger.

Where are all books on boy wizards becoming prohibited?
 
Oct 16, 1999
10,490
4
0
I don't see any threats coming to Gonad the Wizard Boy. Where are you seeing this?

I'm not saying there aren't problems - look at greedy Paul Allen's lawsuits - but not the ones you are suggesting, and I'm still not clear what you're saying is in danger.

Where are all books on boy wizards becoming prohibited?

I only kept going with the literary example because it was the one initially presented. What I'm arguing is happening more specifically in scientific areas: software, genetics, biochemistry, etc.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
I only kept going with the literary example because it was the one initially presented. What I'm arguing is happening more specifically in scientific areas: software, genetics, biochemistry, etc.

Yes, I'm more concerned about those areas, too.

Big bucks, big lawyers, government worker enforcers, politics, and so on.

And to digress, I'm still outraged at the whole 'let companies patent human genes' debacle.

I'd really like to see that nipped in the bud.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,599
126
LOL.

Harvey.

Nobody (including the establishment and their patent treasure trove) cares about you. Your patents are easily ignored. Do you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to support a patent battle? I thought not. Patents benefits massive corporations, not you.

exact same premise.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,087
18,582
146
IP rights should have a finite life and an expiration date. Definitely not past the lifespan of the inventor/artist.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,137
225
106
They should be reformed and reduced in some way, but not abolished.

I think they should be VOID and open to anyone after a year. Even Music and Movies. If you didn't make your fortune off of it in a year then tough let someone else try it out.

Same goes for drugs ... If you can't make a huge profit then you shouldn't be able to sit on it for 50 years and try to sue anyone like steve jobs does for pinching and finger gestures on a tablet or Iphone.
 

CountZero

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2001
1,796
36
86
Copyright - 20 years, non-transferable. In other words you can exclusively license a company to produce your copyrighted works but in the event they go out of business you retain your rights and they cannot transfer them. So you may make CDs of my music but you can't license my music to be made into a commercial. I'm not sure how this would work in areas where creation is largely done for companies directly (ad agencies for example).

Another possibility is 5 year copyright built in to every creation with a window in the fourth year to extend to 20 years. It gives initial protection and you have five years to determine if you will ever extract value from your creation.

Patent - duration is more or less ok. I'd remove software patents, gene patents (though the process of making those gene combination could maybe be patented). It seems like something should be done about patent trolling and the ridiculously broad patents that get granted but I don't see what can be done. The closest I can come up with is similar to my 5 year copyright plan. 5 years after grant the patent needs to be used and the patent will only apply in the way it actually gets used.

Just quick thoughts, I'm sure these have loop holes and all that stuff.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
I'm writing a novel, expecting that when it gets published I'll make a certain amount per copy sold over the life of the copyright. And maybe there will be film rights and profits from tie-ins.

If copyright protection is abolished, meaning that anyone can copy for free any book I write and legally sell as many copies as they want, or can use characters I create without paying me compensation, or can make a movie from my novel without paying me anything, what possible reason (other than the pursuit of a time-consuming hobby) would I have for spending countless hours creating a novel in the first place?

People who advocate abandonment of IP protection are basically trying to rationalize their own theft of IP. They want to pretend that they're entitled to the fruits of someone else's labor for free. Of course, if you ask these thieves to work for free, they'd be outraged at the notion.

The honorable thing to do if you're not willing to pay the going rate for a product is to simply forego the product.

Ding. Notice how the forefront of opposition to copyright protection comes from people who spend a lot of time on the internet? Gee, I wonder why...

- wolf
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
It's funny how many leftists become little monopolists as soon as copyright enters the picture. You despise corporations and their evil coporatey ways, in their corporation buildings, where they make money. You want the government to bust up those companies that you feel are making too much money and they shouldn't be allowed to. But when it comes a movie, you're quite in favor of government protection of monopolies.

So predictable. So transparent. So hypocritical. So sad.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
91
It's funny how many leftists become little monopolists as soon as copyright enters the picture. You despise corporations and their evil coporatey ways, in their corporation buildings, where they make money. You want the government to bust up those companies that you feel are making too much money and they shouldn't be allowed to. But when it comes a movie, you're quite in favor of government protection of monopolies.
So predictable. So transparent. So hypocritical. So sad.

If we didn't protect ideas so as to make them profitable, what would we tax away to give to the poor?

In order to transfer wealth, you must have wealth. Copyright/patents provide sufficient protection to make it worthwhile for a person to create wealth. Then we can siphon the excess away.

No hypocrisy. It's quite consistent.
As for transparency, look in a mirror. No, the mirror itself would be a reflection. I'm referring to the person the mirror is reflecting with the comment of, "transparent."
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
91
LOL.

Harvey.

Nobody (including the establishment and their patent treasure trove) cares about you. Your patents are easily ignored. Do you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to support a patent battle? I thought not. Patents benefits massive corporations, not you.

I know you don't know me, and unless you're really, REALLY well versed in analog circuitry and advanced analog multiplier topologies, I doubt that you know jack shit about my patents, let alone understand anything about them, proving once again that you don't know your ass from that hole in the ground full of your typical lying bullshit.

All you've proven is that you've got nothing to say and far too many words to say it.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
LOL.

Harvey.

Nobody (including the establishment and their patent treasure trove) cares about you. Your patents are easily ignored. Do you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to support a patent battle? I thought not. Patents benefits massive corporations, not you.

LOL, BoberFett, your continuing pissing game on democrats and republicans without EVER standing up for anything at all is getting boring.

Patents benefit inventors, some of them work for a company, in that case the company has the patent rights, in other cases patents benefit original creators, in any case, it drives competition, which is key in the free market and something you should love.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
But Apple didn't in this case. It outright stole it.

But, its Apple. They're the bestest! They makes shinies!


My take on copyrights and patents would be the reduction route. I'm all for an entity, individual or corporation, being able to own a patent. You design something novel, you should have the right to the profits from that patent. Patent squatters should be addressed, if you hold a patent for something and do nothing with it for a length of time without showing any progress, such as production, then that patent should be invalidated and opened to everyone to build and compete with. Filing generic patents should also be addressed. Numerous patents filed by Apple, for example, so generic that they've basically been used by other companies for years. They've also applied for patents on numerous technologies that have been in use for decades and that were designed by other groups, CPU undervolting and displaying graphical icons on a grid, to name too.

Software patents get very sticky, but in general, I think they're over done/used. After a period of time, all software and code should be open sourced as well.
 
Jun 26, 2007
11,925
2
0
It's funny how many leftists become little monopolists as soon as copyright enters the picture. You despise corporations and their evil coporatey ways, in their corporation buildings, where they make money. You want the government to bust up those companies that you feel are making too much money and they shouldn't be allowed to. But when it comes a movie, you're quite in favor of government protection of monopolies.

So predictable. So transparent. So hypocritical. So sad.

Too drunk or too stupid?

No one despises corporations, they provide the free market place in which every nation prospers, no one likes monopolies regardless of what kind they are (well except US libertians who LOVE THEM).

Regulation is neccessary in most cases, to thrive you need incentive of some sort and while i do believe that most people would still invent things i also believe that many have seen others use their inventions to make huge amounts of money while they themselves died in poverty.

You obviously know nothing about history either, patents were created to protect the inventors rights, are you saying they have no rights?

Copyright is just another form of creators rights.

I am against all monopolies and believe that a market should be regulated out of neccessity to keep the market free.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I know you don't know me, and unless you're really, REALLY well versed in analog circuitry and advanced analog multiplier topologies, I doubt that you know jack shit about my patents, let alone understand anything about them, proving once again that you don't know your ass from that hole in the ground full of your typical lying bullshit.

All you've proven is that you've got nothing to say and far too many words to say it.

Which has exactly jack to do with shit. Any large corporation which wanted to use your invention without saying will do so and I highly doubt you could afford a protracted legal battle over it. At the very least, I'm sure your invention is likely similar enough to another patent that if a patent troll ever stumbled across it would make your life hell if they thought they could make a buck.


LOL, BoberFett, your continuing pissing game on democrats and republicans without EVER standing up for anything at all is getting boring.

Patents benefit inventors, some of them work for a company, in that case the company has the patent rights, in other cases patents benefit original creators, in any case, it drives competition, which is key in the free market and something you should love.

Go back to pretending you're a soldier. This conversation is above your head.
 
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