Criticize my nutrition plan...

[JohnOfSheffield]

So, if you saw my other thread in the past you would have seen I was trying to gain 10 lbs in a month (stupid, I know). It was a disaster as I wasn't eating right and eating wayyy too much for my body type (ectomorph). I gained a decent belly, which was a lot of fat and was weighing around 160 lbs - which I think was mostly fat.

I decided to try a different approach after researching a good amount. I started doing the P90X program about 3 weeks ago and my weight is currently at about 154. I haven't followed their nutrition plan to the EXACT food as its hard while I'm working/going to school. However, I think I have been eating much more "cleanly". Here is my typical day:

7:30 AM - Whey Protein Shake in 1% Milk (Protein powder is 140 cals - 25 g protein)
9:45 AM - 1 Canned Tuna in a low-carb wheat wrap
12:15 PM - Grilled chicken breast in a wheat wrap with tomato and lettuce
1:15 PM - Banana
3:00 PM - 1/4 - 1/2 Cup of 1% Cottage Cheese and 4-5 Strawberries
5:00 PM - Whey Protein shake in water
7:00 PM - Whey Protein shake with creatine in water (pre-workout)
WORKOUT
8:30 PM - Whey Protein shake in water (post-workout)
9:30 PM - 2 - Grilled Chicken Breasts or 2- Grilled 93% Lean Hamburger Patties or 1/2 lb Salmon Filet with Edamame
11:00 PM - Casein Protein shake in 1% Milk

I'm basically trying to get down to about 8%-10% body fat, get that cut, shredded look and then SLOWLY gain muscle mass maybe at a rate of 1-2 lbs per month.

Your thoughts, ideas and input is highly appreciated.

Skip all whey protein and replace it with lean meat, add EAA's for workout and MAYBE morning.

1MG of B12 will not hurt you either.

Brown rice won't kill you either, nor will fruit and vegetables, it will at least keep you full if you combine it with your extremely espensive alternative for eating properly.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

That many shakes has a good chance of giving you the shits. I'd try to keep it to no more than 3 shakes a day on workout days and 2 a day on off days. Shakes are also a bad choice if you are trying to keep yourself feeling full because they don't really do that.

 

[Josh]

What I ate yesterday (trying to slowly improve eating plan/body fat &#37:

Breakfast:
Optimum Nutrition - 100% Whey Protein Powder- Vanilla Ice Cream, 1 rounded scoop Generic - 1% Milk, 1 cup
Bumblebee - Chunk Light Tuna In Water - 5oz, 1 container
La Tortilla Factory - Whole Wheat Low-Carb/Low Fat Tortilla (Large Size), 1 Tortilla (62g)
Generic - Steel Cut Oats, 1 cup

Lunch
Subway - 12" Turkey Sub - No Cheese, Cucumbers & Green Peppers 12 inch
Chobani - Greek Yogurt - Strawberry Non-Fat 0%, 1 container

Dinner
Generic - Turkey Burger, 6 OZ (2 Burgers)
Carrots - Raw Carrots, Cut Into Small Pieces - 1 Cup (128g), 1 cup cooked

Snack/Protein Shakes
Sorrento - Stringsters - Reduced Fat 100% Natural String Cheese, 1 stick (oz)
Optimum Nutrition - 100% Whey Protein Powder- Vanilla Ice Cream, 1 rounded scoop (post-workout)
Optimum Nutrition Protein Shake - 100% Casein Protein, 1 scoop (before bed)
Generic - 1% Milk, 1 cup

Totals:
Calories: 2,112
Carbs: 235
Fat: 43
Protein: 227

Thoughts? Will this diet help cut body fat % while maintaing muscle mass? (Doing P90X substituting some exercises for heavier lifting - i.e. bench press for pushups) According to P90X I should be on a 40/40/20 diet for about 4 more weeks then switch to a protein/carbohydrate/fat ratio of 20/60/20 for the last phase.

 

[KoolDrew]

Honestly at your weight (150ish?) that may be too much. However, it depends on too many factors to give you a definitive answer. I say stick with it for a couple weeks and adjust depending on real world results.

Also, don't set protein based on percentages. Instead set it based on lean body mass, or even total bodyweight at your size. Anywhere between 1-1.5g per lb is fine. I tend to stick on the higher end of this range when dieting. I'd say 20% is pretty low, especially once calories are brought even lower, which is the opposite of what should happen. As calories go down a higher protein intake is even more important and protein intake should increase. This is one of the main reasons I don't like using percentages.

 

[Kipper]

What I ate yesterday (trying to slowly improve eating plan/body fat %):

Breakfast:
Optimum Nutrition - 100% Whey Protein Powder- Vanilla Ice Cream, 1 rounded scoop Generic - 1% Milk, 1 cup
Bumblebee - Chunk Light Tuna In Water - 5oz, 1 container
La Tortilla Factory - Whole Wheat Low-Carb/Low Fat Tortilla (Large Size), 1 Tortilla (62g)
Generic - Steel Cut Oats, 1 cup

Lunch
Subway - 12" Turkey Sub - No Cheese, Cucumbers & Green Peppers 12 inch
Chobani - Greek Yogurt - Strawberry Non-Fat 0%, 1 container

Dinner
Generic - Turkey Burger, 6 OZ (2 Burgers)
Carrots - Raw Carrots, Cut Into Small Pieces - 1 Cup (128g), 1 cup cooked

Snack/Protein Shakes
Sorrento - Stringsters - Reduced Fat 100% Natural String Cheese, 1 stick (oz)
Optimum Nutrition - 100% Whey Protein Powder- Vanilla Ice Cream, 1 rounded scoop (post-workout)
Optimum Nutrition Protein Shake - 100% Casein Protein, 1 scoop (before bed)
Generic - 1% Milk, 1 cup

Totals:
Calories: 2,112
Carbs: 235
Fat: 43
Protein: 227

Thoughts? Will this diet help cut body fat % while maintaing muscle mass? (Doing P90X substituting some exercises for heavier lifting - i.e. bench press for pushups) According to P90X I should be on a 40/40/20 diet for about 4 more weeks then switch to a protein/carbohydrate/fat ratio of 20/60/20 for the last phase.

The same problems are still present. This intake still lacks a glaring amount of vegetable...you get maybe a cup, two if you're lucky? As we've said, far too much reliance on protein shakes. You overdo the protein, period. You've hit over sixty grams before you even finish breakfast, which is complete overkill. You are trying to preserve muscle mass while you lose weight...this really doesn't call for a ridiculous amount of protein.

I would definitely like to see A LOT more variety in this diet.

 

[Josh]

Honestly at your weight (150ish?) that may be too much. However, it depends on too many factors to give you a definitive answer. I say stick with it for a couple weeks and adjust depending on real world results.

Also, don't set protein based on percentages. Instead set it based on lean body mass, or even total bodyweight at your size. Anywhere between 1-1.5g per lb is fine. I tend to stick on the higher end of this range when dieting. I'd say 20% is pretty low, especially once calories are brought even lower, which is the opposite of what should happen. As calories go down a higher protein intake is even more important and protein intake should increase. This is one of the main reasons I don't like using percentages.

I'm currently weighing around 151 lbs. However, my abs are still not visible meaning my body fat percentage must still be somewhat high. How much more weight must I lose for the definition around the abs?? Argghhh

 

[Josh]

The same problems are still present. This intake still lacks a glaring amount of vegetable...you get maybe a cup, two if you're lucky? As we've said, far too much reliance on protein shakes. You overdo the protein, period. You've hit over sixty grams before you even finish breakfast, which is complete overkill. You are trying to preserve muscle mass while you lose weight...this really doesn't call for a ridiculous amount of protein.

I would definitely like to see A LOT more variety in this diet.

How much more vegetables should I be throwing in? I'm taking three protein shakes per day. One for breakfast, one-postworkout and one casein protein before bed.

And how am I overdoing protein when the recommended daily intake is 1.5 g per lb...for me that would be about 226.5 g protein. I'm right there?

How would you reccomend me changing up this diet?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

How much more vegetables should I be throwing in? I'm taking three protein shakes per day. One for breakfast, one-postworkout and one casein protein before bed.

And how am I overdoing protein when the recommended daily intake is 1.5 g per lb...for me that would be about 226.5 g protein. I'm right there?

How would you reccomend me changing up this diet?

Honestly, you should be limiting yourself to one protein shake per day and try to get your protein from natural sources. The amount of protein that you're just drinking is silly. You need to eat probably 2-2.5cups of vegetables at your size. Throw some peas, sweat potatoes, broccoli, spinach, kale, tomatoes, ANYTHING into your diet. Get creative here. Unless you're really destroying your body with tons of volume and heavy weights, you only need one post-workout shake. If you keep your protein intake up, research has shown no need for constant supplementation (especially the casein).

 

[zsdersw]

Yeah.. try eggs and lean meat for protein instead of shakes. It'll probably taste better too.

 

[Josh]

Honestly, you should be limiting yourself to one protein shake per day and try to get your protein from natural sources. The amount of protein that you're just drinking is silly. You need to eat probably 2-2.5cups of vegetables at your size. Throw some peas, sweat potatoes, broccoli, spinach, kale, tomatoes, ANYTHING into your diet. Get creative here. Unless you're really destroying your body with tons of volume and heavy weights, you only need one post-workout shake. If you keep your protein intake up, research has shown no need for constant supplementation (especially the casein).

Ok, so let's say forget the casein protein shake at night. Instead, I will do 1/2 cup of cottage cheese 1% and some strawberries for flavor.

And, throw in 1 cup of broccoli at lunch and some spinach & carrots at dinner.

For breakfast, I will replace the protein shake with: Thomas - 100% Whole Wheat English Muffin, 1 muffin and Jiff Peanut Butter - Crunchy - 2tbsps

Better?

 

[Kipper]

How much more vegetables should I be throwing in? I'm taking three protein shakes per day. One for breakfast, one-postworkout and one casein protein before bed.

And how am I overdoing protein when the recommended daily intake is 1.5 g per lb...for me that would be about 226.5 g protein. I'm right there?

How would you reccomend me changing up this diet?

The official "recommendation" is around five servings of fruits & vegetables a day (1 serving = 1 medium fruit, 1/2 cup cooked vegetables, or 1 cup raw veg/fruit). In my opinion, it should be closer to 10. This level of intake is perfectly doable and would be recommended particularly in your case, because you have very little fiber intake overall.

The recommended level of protein should be closer to 1.5 g/KG (1 kg = 2.2 lbs). You are trying to preserve muscle while losing weight, not hospitalized and recovering from major trauma. Even for heavy weight lifting 1 g/lb is more than sufficient. You're overdosing by a ton, and you aren't even lifting heavy (P90X = cardio). In that case, I would include more complex starch in the diet (whole grains, whole potatoes, etc.). I realize some people shy away from carbs but there is really no reason to.

 

[KoolDrew]

I'm currently weighing around 151 lbs. However, my abs are still not visible meaning my body fat percentage must still be somewhat high. How much more weight must I lose for the definition around the abs?? Argghhh

It's hard to say without knowing your current bodyfat percentage.

 

[zsdersw]

Carbs are not the enemy a lot of people think they are. Rather than cutting carbs en masse people should be focused on cutting out certain carbs, like highly refined and processed ones. These carbs often come with a lot of extra sugar, which makes them a double-whammy.

Keep it simple, and the less refined/processed the better: pasta, whole potatoes, whole-grain bread, non-inverted rice.. these are all good carbs. Fruits are good carbs too, mainly because they come with vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

Like everything else, though, portion control is key. Everything in moderation. You can go a long ways toward being very healthy by eating food that's more natural and less processed/refined.. and can keep the weight off by doing good portion control.

What you eat plays a big role in how healthy you are.

How much you eat plays a big role in how much you weigh.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Carbs are not the enemy a lot of people think they are. Rather than cutting carbs en masse people should be focused on cutting out certain carbs, like highly refined and processed ones. These carbs often come with a lot of extra sugar, which makes them a double-whammy.

Keep it simple, and the less refined/processed the better: pasta, whole potatoes, whole-grain bread, non-inverted rice.. these are all good carbs. Fruits are good carbs too, mainly because they come with vitamins, minerals, and fiber.

Like everything else, though, portion control is key. Everything in moderation. You can go a long ways toward being very healthy by eating food that's more natural and less processed/refined.. and can keep the weight off by doing good portion control.

What you eat plays a big role in how healthy you are.

How much you eat plays a big role in how much you weigh.

Actually, if you're trying to cut body fat, even good carbs can make you retain excess body fat. And by the way, your definition of good carbs still entails refined, starchy options that will not promote loss of body fat. You said don't include processed crap and then listed processed crap as good. Cutting carbs, with calorie restriction, has been shown to be more effective at cutting body fat than a normal high-carbohydrate diet. It has to do with the thermic effect of feeding, thereby modifying the actual calories burnt digesting the food.

 

[zsdersw]

Actually, if you're trying to cut body fat, even good carbs can make you retain excess body fat.

Cutting carbs out of your diet is not healthy, whether you're trying to lose body fat or not.

And by the way, your definition of good carbs still entails refined, starchy options that will not promote loss of body fat. You said don't include processed crap and then listed processed crap as good.

Like what?

Cutting carbs, with calorie restriction, has been shown to be more effective at cutting body fat than a normal high-carbohydrate diet. It has to do with the thermic effect of feeding, thereby modifying the actual calories burnt digesting the food.

What's considered a "normal high-carbohydrate diet"?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Cutting carbs out of your diet is not healthy, whether you're trying to lose body fat or not.



Like what?



What's considered a "normal high-carbohydrate diet"?

Actually, cutting carbs HAS been shown to be healthy. People who lost weight while cutting carbs to something like 20% of their overall intake had significantly better improvement in lipid profiles (LDL down, HDL up, triglycerides down), body fat loss, insulin sensitivity, etc. Cutting carbs down compared to what the normal American eats IS healthy, as research has shown.

Like what? Really? Pasta is calorie dense, does not satiate well, is high GI, has few nutrients, is low in fiber, is processed as hell... Should I go on? Bread is similar. Potatoes are very starchy with few nutrients as well, besides potassium. These foods are poor choices compared to sweet potatoes, legumes, veggies, etc.

A typical American consumes more than 50% of calories from carbohydrates. Unless you're a high-level endurance athlete, that level is unnecessary and hinders optimal function.

 

[zsdersw]

Actually, cutting carbs HAS been shown to be healthy. People who lost weight while cutting carbs to something like 20% of their overall intake had significantly better improvement in lipid profiles (LDL down, HDL up, triglycerides down), body fat loss, insulin sensitivity, etc. Cutting carbs down compared to what the normal American eats IS healthy, as research has shown.

Cutting carbs down from what Americans typically eat is healthy, I agree, but that's not what I said. Cutting carbs out of your diet is not healthy.. which is what I said.

Like what? Really? Pasta is calorie dense, does not satiate well, is high GI, has few nutrients, is low in fiber, is processed as hell... Should I go on? Bread is similar. Potatoes are very starchy with few nutrients as well, besides potassium. These foods are poor choices compared to sweet potatoes, legumes, veggies, etc.

Not all pasta, bread, and potatoes are as you say they are. There's pasta with protein and more nutrients, isn't highly processed, and offers quite a bit of fiber. Ditto with bread. Potatoes are not all very starchy, depending on the type and cooking method. They also offer more nutrients and vitamins than just potassium (Vitamins C, B6, as well as copper, magnesium, and iron.. and they have quite a bit of fiber too).

Sweet potatoes, legumes, and veggies are great too, but that doesn't mean all pasta, bread, and potatoes are "bad carbs".

A typical American consumes more than 50% of calories from carbohydrates. Unless you're a high-level endurance athlete, that level is unnecessary and hinders optimal function.

Why is the typical American diet that high? It's not because they're eating too many good carbs, it's because they're eating stuff like sugary Pop Tarts, cereal, and fast food breakfast sandwiches for breakfast, burgers and fries for lunch, and going out to dinner at Applebees or ordering pizza... and snacking (none of which are good carbs) between all of these meals.

I'd also say that refined sugars are a big part of why the typical American diet is so high in carbs. Soda is not exactly getting stale on the shelves of America's supermarkets.

 

[Josh]

Here's yet another revised diet. I know, I know, protein intake is high but it is what it is...it's not going to kill me. I've got a lot of veggies in there along with some good carbs.

Let me know thoughts.

EDIT - Lunch was mistakenly entered. Should only be 6oz chicken and then going to put the other 4 in my snack #2.

 

[KoolDrew]

Actually, if you're trying to cut body fat, even good carbs can make you retain excess body fat.

You've got to be kidding me... I'd expect better from you. An overabundance of ANY macro nutrient can make you retain excess body fat, so this point is completely irrelevant.

And by the way, your definition of good carbs still entails refined, starchy options that will not promote loss of body fat.

Yea, because carbs make you fat... riiight.

Cutting carbs, with calorie restriction, has been shown to be more effective at cutting body fat than a normal high-carbohydrate diet.

No, it hasn't. Go read the research again. Independent of a high protein intake and in a controlled calorie setting, there is absolutely no metabolic advantage to a low-carb diet. There is a metabolic advantage to a high protein diet, and this is often the issue with such studies. Since you can't change one macronutrient without either changing another to keep calories the same, or by raising calories often it turns out being high-carb/low protein vs low-carb/high protein. Anybody here should be able to tell me which would provide a metabolic damage, and it isn't from the carbs.

Studies have been done showing more total initial weight loss with low carb diets (glycogen, water), but since you said body fat I'm assuming you're not referring to these. There's also has been studies showing more weight loss fat loss when individuals are allowed to eat what they want (in an uncontrolled setting). However, I'm also assuming you're not referring to these since you did say "with calorie restriction," as this is simply an issue of eating less and calorie density. You remove 50% of a persons diet, especially calorie dense sources, they lose weight.

It has to do with the thermic effect of feeding, thereby modifying the actual calories burnt digesting the food.

This doesn't even make sense considering the fact that proteins TEF is about 20-30%, carbohydrates about 5-6% generally (is upwards of 23% if converted to fat, but this doesn't happen often in humans anyway), and fat is a mere 2-3% since their is minimal processing.

So obviously protein having the highest TEF would mean a high protein diet would offer some sort of metabolic advantage, completely independent of carb intake. In fact, taking TEF into account a diet higher in carbs (relative to fat) would offer a slight metabolic advantage. In other words, given protein was kept constant as well as calories and you were comparing high carb/low fat and high fat/low carb, the higher carb group would show a slight metabolic advantage.

With such a small difference in TEF it wouldn't account for much. Even if you replaced 1000 calories of fat with 1000 calories of carbs, you'd burn about 20-30 more calories. So the difference is negligible and I'm not suggesting a high-carb diet because of TEF, but just to show what you said makes absolutely no sense since the exact opposite is true. The only time TEF will make a significant difference is if you replaced either carbs or fat with protein. For every 100 calories of carbs or fat replaced with protein, you'd burn about 25 calories more, which can add up when you start to approach very high protein intakes.

 

[Josh]

It's hard to say without knowing your current bodyfat percentage.

I've purchased a body fat caliper and will post results as soon as I do my measurements.

 

[calvinbiss]

I would like all of you to submit your opinion on how many carbohydrates should be taken in for a day. Lets assume none of the carbs are from fast food or are overly processed, but from things like oatmeal, fruit, whole grain breads, good starches, etc.

What is the proper number for someone who is weighs 180 lbs and is lifting heavy (say Stronglifts 5x5) and looking to reduce body fat?

 

[zsdersw]

I would like all of you to submit your opinion on how many carbohydrates should be taken in for a day. Lets assume none of the carbs are from fast food or are overly processed, but from things like oatmeal, fruit, whole grain breads, good starches, etc.

What is the proper number for someone who is weighs 18 lbs and is lifting heavy (say Stronglifts 5x5) and looking to reduce body fat?

I didn't know an 18lb person could lift heavy weights or needed to reduce body fat.

 

[calvinbiss]

I didn't know an 18lb person could lift heavy weights or needed to reduce body fat.

Fixed

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I didn't know an 18lb person could lift heavy weights or needed to reduce body fat.

Lulz

 

[KoolDrew]

I would like all of you to submit your opinion on how many carbohydrates should be taken in for a day. Lets assume none of the carbs are from fast food or are overly processed, but from things like oatmeal, fruit, whole grain breads, good starches, etc.

What is the proper number for someone who is weighs 180 lbs and is lifting heavy (say Stronglifts 5x5) and looking to reduce body fat?

I know this isn't exactly what you're looking for but.... it depends. Given the person is aiming to lose bodyfat carbs will be lower simply because calories will be lower and carbs usually get the cut when dropping calories. Protein will never get cut (if anything, it should go up on a diet) and I find really low fat diets rarely work very well. Allowing a decent amount of fat allows you to cover your bases for EFA's, slow down gastric emptying, and helps keep blood glucose more stable. So usually I'd set protein at a constant (1-1.5g per lb LBM or whatever), fat at 20-30%, and then the rest depends.

At this point you could simply fill the rest with carbs and not worry about it, and this is actually usually what I do. A lot of it is going to depend on activity levels though. An endurance athlete is going to need more carbs than a powerlifter. However, an endurance athlete could probably get by with a bit less protein, leaving more room for carbs anyway. You also have to consider the fact that an endurance athlete is going to probably be consuming a lot more calories as well, leaving more room for carbs. Insulin sensitivity could be an issue as well. An overweight individual who is more insulin resistant and doesn't do much activity, would probably do best with a lower carb diet.

Honestly, carbs can change drastically from person to person depending on quite a few different things. Since there is no physiological requirement for carbs intake can range from next to nothing up to around 1000g on a refeed.

If you want some figures and bit more on the topic, read this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/how-many-carbohydrates-do-you-need.html