Cryptocoin Mining?

[j&j]

Pulled this from HERE.



The Jalepeno looks sick, but it still hasn't made it to market? :|

Butterfly labs is a ponzi scheme/Scam, they take payment in full, UP FRONT.

No other vendor charges you anything before the product ships.

they barely shipped a few of their initial units way back when, literally a handful made it out. they have been advertising their pre-orders on these for months, and keep pushing it back.

 

[thilanliyan]

I'm so glad ASIC mining has not taken off lol.

 

[Despoiler]

Butterfly labs is a ponzi scheme/Scam, they take payment in full, UP FRONT.

No other vendor charges you anything before the product ships.

they barely shipped a few of their initial units way back when, literally a handful made it out. they have been advertising their pre-orders on these for months, and keep pushing it back.

You clearly don't know what a ponzi scheme is. As far as a scam, I had their FPGA singles so from personal experience it's not the case.

 

[Zargon]

Butterfly labs is a ponzi scheme/Scam, they take payment in full, UP FRONT.

No other vendor charges you anything before the product ships.

they barely shipped a few of their initial units way back when, literally a handful made it out. they have been advertising their pre-orders on these for months, and keep pushing it back.

besides all those games people preorder

 

[Despoiler]

besides all those games people preorder

Don't forget Kickstarter and all venture capital.

 

[Spades45]

If you have an AMD video card you may be able to eke out a few bucks after paying for electricity, but when I say a few bucks I mean literally a few bucks per month. When ASICs hit, and they WILL hit, difficulty will go up by an order of magnitude and make GPUs effectively worthless for mining unless you have free electricity.

As for actually running out and buying a new video card to mine on, dream on, the ship has sailed and it's not worth buying new hardware just for mining.

what about picking up an ASIC when they hit?

You clearly don't know what a ponzi scheme is. As far as a scam, I had their FPGA singles so from personal experience it's not the case.

Seems to me you're the one who misunderstands Ponzi schemes.

 

[pm]

Seems to me you're the one who misunderstands Ponzi schemes.

From wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors.

Thus, a scheme in which someone has a product that you have to prepay to order and they may or may not ever ship it, is not a Ponzi scheme because you are not receiving returns from the original investors.

But even if it's not a Ponzi scheme, it may still be fraud.

 

[Spades45]

From wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors.

Thus, a scheme in which someone has a product that you have to prepay to order and they may or may not ever ship it, is not a Ponzi scheme because you are not receiving returns from the original investors.

But even if it's not a Ponzi scheme, it may still be fraud.

right. which makes it a ponzi scheme. the ones who got their machines already got their machines because of the subsequent investors.

i think it's safe to say that most scams are some form of ponzi scheme at least in part. its just that not many get the publicity that bernie madoff did. excluding timeshares of course. those are just scams

 

[MrTeal]

right. which makes it a ponzi scheme. the ones who got their machines already got their machines because of the subsequent investors.

i think it's safe to say that most scams are some form of ponzi scheme at least in part. its just that not many get the publicity that bernie madoff did. excluding timeshares of course. those are just scams

That makes no sense. The vast majority of scams are not Ponzi schemes, and BFL isn't a Ponzi. They haven't been selling the ASIC machines at a loss in order to bring in more funding and continue the charade; they just haven't shipped any ASIC units. BFL could definitely run with all the money, or they could have so many issues the company fails, but that doesn't make it a Ponzi.

 

[taltamir]

right. which makes it a ponzi scheme. the ones who got their machines already got their machines because of the subsequent investors.

i think it's safe to say that most scams are some form of ponzi scheme at least in part. its just that not many get the publicity that bernie madoff did. excluding timeshares of course. those are just scams

the addition of a hardware component makes it "technically not ponzi" even if it bears remarkable similarity.

Kinda like how all "network marketing" are "technically not a ponzi scheme" yet still ponzi like scams

 

[philipma1957]

dont blame butterfly labs the investors caused the problem.

preordering an asic was not a good idea.


If no one purchased a preorder butterfly labs and all the other asic sellers would have been forced to buy like a normal human buys.


I have sat the asic fence since july and in the meanwhile my 16 gpus are heating my house and paying me some serious coin.

I will buy an asic when people own working models and if I always have to preorder 2 or 3 months ahead I will just end my mining days.

 

[thilanliyan]

Just unloaded a bunch of bitcoins at $18...got tired of waiting for $20 lol

 

[Chiropteran]

Back up to $19.25 after a brief crash. Makes me think that this might be closer to the "correct" value, since it bounced back so quick.

 

[philipma1957]

Just cashed some in at 18.75.

All I ask is April before the asics drop.

 

[IGemini]

My hand is being forced on that hard drive purchase, my 1.5TB media drive failed last night. Cashed in at 18.85 for a Newegg card.

 

[Despoiler]

Butterfly Labs is an investment service? They are promising to pay me a return on money I give them? Umm lol? You are not an investor in BFL or with BFL. You are pre-ordering a product. I can pre-order video games, movies, cars, or any other product a company is about to offer for general availability.

 

[philipma1957]

Butterfly Labs is an investment service? They are promising to pay me a return on money I give them? Umm lol? You are not an investor in BFL or with BFL. You are pre-ordering a product. I can pre-order video games, movies, cars, or any other product a company is about to offer for general availability.

your point about the other items is true.

the only thing that an asic works for is mining btc.

so it is not quite the same as a car, a movie yada yada yada.

Look lots of us made a lot of guesses due to the pressure asics created.



I decide to increase my gpus and hope for a delay so far so good.

Of course being able to buy a hd7970 gpu from a 'real" company like amazon made the
choice a lot easier. pre-ordering an item that has 0 value other then mining from a company that has no great track record turned me off.

 

[j&j]

fraud, ponzi scheme, whatever. just because a few people had some original singles doesn't mean squad. it's highly likely fraud.

and yes, it's still in a way a ponzi scheme. they are taking in cash from pre-orders and then refunding the few who decide to cancel and or fulfilling a tiny fraction of orders. so, yes, they are in essence taking in lots of money on what they are called "pre orders" call it what you will.


regardless, even their original single didn't live up to the hype and produced lower numbers than they claimed when it actually hit the market, it was still a decent product but they barely made any, and it had no real effect on the market at all before they transitioned to taking orders for their "god" product that they've delayed endlessly.

 

[j&j]

Butterfly Labs is an investment service? They are promising to pay me a return on money I give them? Umm lol? You are not an investor in BFL or with BFL. You are pre-ordering a product. I can pre-order video games, movies, cars, or any other product a company is about to offer for general availability.

ok smartass, all the other preorders i've done didn't require me to buy the product first, then they deliver it later. even with a car, you'd leave a tiny deposit. others basically just add a temp auth to my credit card.


i hope you have bunches of asics on preorder, i'm sure you'll get them.

 

[philipma1957]

ok smartass, all the other preorders i've done didn't require me to buy the product first, then they deliver it later. even with a car, you'd leave a tiny deposit. others basically just add a temp auth to my credit card.


i hope you have bunches of asics on preorder, i'm sure you'll get them.

Be nice but if you want to laugh last read this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139704.0

so based on this both avalon and bfl are looking worse then ever.

I am still liking my GPU's

 

[philipma1957]

looks like the first avalon asic has arrived.




http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-modular-room-to-expand.html

of course not much info as to how well it works.

and two viewpoints on all of this;


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139704.0


https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/735-avalon-countdown-discussion-thread.html


bit coin price is 19 and some change

 

[Despoiler]

ok smartass, all the other preorders i've done didn't require me to buy the product first, then they deliver it later. even with a car, you'd leave a tiny deposit. others basically just add a temp auth to my credit card.


i hope you have bunches of asics on preorder, i'm sure you'll get them.

That's cause you aren't rich enough to buy a car that requires the full price up front.

The fact remains that none of you haters have any clue what a ponzi scheme is and your claims of fraud are nothing more than delusions.

 

[blastingcap]

All you people who are personally attacking each other please take it to PM. Nobody wants to hear your silly little squabbles.

Philip, thanks for the links. It was inevitable that ASICs would show up. Should be interesting to see what happens now.

 

[Binky]

looks like the first avalon asic has arrived.




http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-modular-room-to-expand.html

Well that looks professionally made.

He got it running.
http://garzikrants.blogspot.com/2013/01/avalon-its-alive.html

 

[Chiropteran]

Broke past $20 pretty damn fast, selling at $21.25 currently.