Cryptocoin Mining?

[KlokWyze]

The coinye hoopla is making it's rounds. Thank you Mr. West.

Twitter Feed

 

[blastingcap]

In the short term yes. If bitcoin (and therefore altcoins) rise by another extraordinary amount and you are in longer term, these details (profitability/day) would be minor considerations. On the other hand it may be that the altcoins crash, and you lose the cost of electricity.

If you cash out daily or regularly then they apply. If not, they don't, at least not as directly - especially if you convert to a stable or growing coin.

It seems that the best way to play the mining craze is to simply sell overpriced video cards to people who are bad at math and then use some of the proceeds to buy coins directly and hold them. People who work for AMD or who are in its ecosystem such as AIB partners--including at least one person on this thread--know that mining profitability is going to crash, so they keep encouraging people to keep buying overpriced video cards and painting overly rosy pictures of mining profitability.

Anyway:

If you mine and hold coins for a year only for the coins to go to zero, you not only lose the cost of depreciation on hardware, you also paid all those power bills for nothing.

If you mine and sell immediately to cover your power bills, you won't have nearly as many coins to benefit from the price appreciation on the coins. That's pretty expensive insurance if you believe coin prices will rise.

It doesn't take very much in buying coins directly to have the same effect as mining... you can spend $X on mining and electricity or you can spend 5%-10% of $X on buying coins directly and if it goes to zero you are only out that amount, which can actually be LESS of a loss than a miner who has to pay for all that electricity and depreciation. And if prices go up like they have historically you're looking at profiting 10-20x more than a miner which is why you only need 5-10% of $X.

Holding onto altcoins is for, um, extreme optimists... due to tiny market caps ripe for price manipulation. Even mighty bitcoin itself with its $10 billion market cap, is vulnerable to price manipulation. One of these days an altcoin will emerge to dethrone BTC/LTC if it's revolutionary enough, but these copycat coins you keep seeing spring up are not revolutionary, they are basically bitcoin copycats. I think most miners know this so they don't actually hang onto their altcoins. This continual downward pressure on prices and tons of hashrate dedicated to arbitrage means that coinhopping is unlikely to be as profitable as it used to be, not that it was that profitable in the first place due to the sketchy stuff that goes on in the world of altcoins, including market manipulation, 51% attacks, poorly-announced forks due to buggy software that needs to get fixed, hacked pools, shady pool operators, exchanges and pools that disappear with the coins they were holding, etc. You don't see that as often with BTC and LTC because BTC/LTC are bigger and more resistant to stuff like 51% attacks and market manipulation, and because BTC/LTC are better-established with more money available for things like protecting pools from DDoS/hacks, and pool and exchange operators have an interest in securing honest, long-term profits rather than the fly-by-night folks in the altcoin world.

 

[IEC]

Coinwarz is misleading and worse than useless.

After hopping around a little I settled on RPC for the past week and it has been almost as good as DOGE for me. My solo miners did better than my pool miners. Even my pool miners were absurdly lucky. I found 15 blocks (15.015 RPC) for one pool but only have ~9 RPC "earned". Sometimes pool mining can suck.

I care more about fun than profits at this point so that prompted me to go all solo miners. Nice side benefit of not caring if a pool or two are down, as my intranet has 99.999% uptime.

Edit: I should also note that in the process of setting up solo miners I learned more about cgminer and LTC-based wallets/daemons. Worth doing if only for learning purposes.

 

[Silverforce11]

snip

.. you still don't get it.

All your pseudo calculations mean nothing because the point I have been making, IF and when alt coins are more profitable to mine than LTC, its more beneficial to mine them and converting it into LTC IF YOU WANT TO GET LTC.

It so happens, for the past month and now, alt coins ARE more profitable to mine than LTC.

What exactly are you telling miners to do exactly? They should not bother with altcoins and stick with LTC? Or don't mine at all and go throw $$ at buying coins as an investment?

This thread is about cryptocoin mining.

 

[UNhooked]

Future Asic Scrypt miner ??

http://www.gridseed.com/main.php

 

[nwo]

Future Asic Scrypt miner ??

http://www.gridseed.com/main.php

Been posted already.

 

[UNhooked]

Been posted already.

And thoughts?

 

[Attic]

Well the jumping difficulty and deadened dropping price of LTC is going to decimate profit margins.

It was an easy case to make for the 280x at inflated prices when LTC was worth $30 or more and difficulty was <3000. At that time every 1000Kh/s you could toss in would yeild close to 3 hundo a month. Even with high energy prices you could keep a lot of that 3 hundo if ya build an efficient rig. Now that 300 has turned to 180 and it's not up against zero, it's up againt the price of energy (0-100 a month for that 1000Kh/s)

Price is still right to earn money with mining rigs, but it's not going to be paying off the hardware setup nearly as quick.


Cliffs: I think 280x prices are slated to come down drastically within 1-2 weeks.

 

[JBT]

Future Asic Scrypt miner ??

http://www.gridseed.com/main.php

70Kh/s You gonna need a lot of them...

 

[blastingcap]

.. you still don't get it.

All your pseudo calculations mean nothing because the point I have been making, IF and when alt coins are more profitable to mine than LTC, its more beneficial to mine them and converting it into LTC IF YOU WANT TO GET LTC.

It so happens, for the past month and now, alt coins ARE more profitable to mine than LTC.

What exactly are you telling miners to do exactly? They should not bother with altcoins and stick with LTC? Or don't mine at all and go throw $$ at buying coins as an investment?

This thread is about cryptocoin mining.

Lol you snipped out the portion of my post specifically directed at your post and then have the gall to say I "don't get it." That's coming from the guy who was so naive that he claimed CAT coin was going "to the moon" and offered up its mistaken no. 1 ranking on coinwarz as "proof." (Btw, even WITH that glitch, it quick fell to no. 27 within an hour or two. As I've said before, coinwarz is pretty worthless at predicting what will be most profitable to mine, and their list isn't even complete anyway.)

Your main "argument" is flawed. Don't you see why?

First of all, you simply won't stop spouting off about recent altcoin profitability as if it weren't a super outlier thanks to dogecoin and the bitcoin spike to $1200 that drove suckers' money into altcoins as well. Sorry but that was an abnormal period of time. Second of all, think for a moment what you're really saying when you say that miners can switch from altcoins to LTC back and forth depending on what's more profitable. Effectively you are saying miners can predict the future. This is why:

You have to decide what to mine BEFORE you mine it. By the time the miner mines enough to cash out of an altcoin, it may have gained or lost and been more or less profitable to mine than LTC. Only during times like dogecoin when something with more profitable to mine than litecoin for days or weeks at a time can you have a fairly certain arbitrage opportunity, and even then, it looks more obvious in hindsight.

If you say ok join a coinhopper pool, you run into the same problem, except this time you are hiring someone else (a pool operator and its trading and arbitrage-prediction algorithms) to make the judgment calls about arbitrage. But they can't predict the future, either, and some have additional constraints, especially auto-cashout pools that are forced to cash out even if it's a bad time to do so. The worst case scenario for a coinhopping pool is WORSE than mining straight up LTC because if they mess up (e.g., they were gullible and believed the hype about CAT coin just in time for it to crash in value, then were forced to cash out at depressed prices). Plus coinhopping pools typically charge higher fees than regular LTC pools. The historical record of coinhopping pools is a lot worse when you take the recent bitcoin spike and dogecoin surge out of the equation.

Why is it hard to arbitrage altcoins? Because of rampant market manipulation of prices, and because there is too much coinhopper/arbitrage hashrate chasing too few arbitrage opportunities. You need market depth and market cap and decently high difficulty to have an arbitrage opportunity; without a big enough market, the you will crash the market trying to cash out (too many sellers, not enough buyers), and if difficulty is low, then the big arbitrage pools will come along and drive the difficulty so high that it is not profitable to mine anymore. As just one example, in the last several days, after the dogecoin bubble burst, we've seen that one of the biggest coinhopping/arbitrage pools is mining Litecoin much of the day because it's the most profitable thing to mine, and offering daily returns comparable to mining straight up Litecoin. Get used to it, this is what the world looks like without DOGEcoin.

Let's just cut to the chase and agree to disagree.

 

[Attic]

Well,.. network gone from sub 100,000Mh/s to 130,000+Mh/s with a lightning quickness.

Something tells me ASIC scrypt miners are being quietly (not so perhaps) put to use in the shadows before they go mainstream to the public.

 

[Silverforce11]

Let's just cut to the chase and agree to disagree.

Yes my wallet disagrees with your entire anti-mining propaganda, because its earning me heaps to mine altcoins, more than I would have got from LTC alone. It's still like this now. It will probably be like this tomorrow, or the next week. But if it won't, it takes me literally 2 seconds to start mining LTC again.

So, whats your advice to the miners again? You want them to not bother looking around for better profitability and just mine LTC, is that it? I'm not even sure what your message is. Get to the point, succinctly.

 

[UNhooked]

man thought ASIC miners were atleast another year away.

 

[JDG1980]

Well,.. network gone from sub 100,000Mh/s to 130,000+Mh/s with a lightning quickness.

Something tells me ASIC scrypt miners are being quietly (not so perhaps) put to use in the shadows before they go mainstream to the public.

Possible, but I doubt it. This kind of increase could be due to new shipments of Radeon cards to miners. Keep in mind that due to inflated prices, virtually all new 280X's and above are going to be used at least partially for mining at this time.

 

[blastingcap]

Yes my wallet disagrees with your entire anti-mining propaganda, because its earning me heaps to mine altcoins, more than I would have got from LTC alone. It's still like this now. It will probably be like this tomorrow, or the next week. But if it won't, it takes me literally 2 seconds to start mining LTC again.

So, whats your advice to the miners again?

"It's still like this now"? Lol. For the THIRD TIME now, Dogecoin was an outlier, and furthermore, it is most certainly NOT "like this now," that is a blatant LIE. Many people on the middlecoin forum have complained for days now that they are getting the worst results in a while, and it's because the Dogecoin bubble bursted. Dogecoin was great for arbitrage but coins like it are basically rare or nonexistent, most arb opportunities are extremely "transient" to use your own term (below).

If you got lucky and mined some coin that got you profits that great, but you're acting like a guy who bought a penny stock and got lucky and beat the S&P500 and is now using his own lucky experience to say that penny stocks outperform the S&P500.

It is pretty funny how hyperoptimistic you are about almost every mineable altcoin, yet when one of the biggest altcoins enters the market, you crap all over it. Why? Because it's not mineable so it won't earn your company money selling video cards? Haha.

What's NXT's appeal to the masses? None. Only to tech-heads and a small minority even.

My advice is to not listen to pump-and-dumpers who promise the moon, especially if they have undisclosed conflicts of interests such as being AMD employees or affiliates.

Never underestimate the appeal of cute, just look at Hello Kitty!

pss. Get into Cat while its priced low, this is a crazy fast jump in value for a new coin. 21M capped compared to Doge's 100B cap..

and

"Gonna disagree, I have a large bet on CAT doing well in the future. " - me, yesterday.

Meanwhile, Cat is flying to the moon. 0.001 of a BTC!

Most profitable altcoin to mine that gives consistent results.. get in quick before difficulty spikes up x5.

Come on kitty, make daddy some $$!

Edit: oops, difficulty just up by 3x..

and

Gonna disagree, I have a large bet on CAT doing well in the future.

Scrypt Bitcoins with lolcatz & Hello Kitty factor?!

Do something funky? Here have a CAT...

You did WHAT?! Here have a puss...

and

W... T... F...

What just happened to Catcoins?! Jumped to 0.001 a BTC all of a sudden and going higher fast. Ridiculous moonbase!

You knew that coinwarz is unreliable:

some coins have a transient higher profit on coinwarz, a lot of them have varying rewards or difficulty adjustment thats wacked up.

Yet you attempt to offer it up as "proof" when it suits you:

So sad..

http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency

Only 2,100 kH/s and thats some pretty decent income. Easy to obtain BTC through multipools.

But in reality:

I've noticed that CAT is a DEAD coin due to huge diff re-target period.
I clearly remember seeing 64 diff and huge time before lower diff is possible. Then Silverforce links CAT on coinwarz all of a sudden. HOW COME??

Cheating pure and simple:

"We are going to get down the re-target every 2,016 blocks to just 36 to better handle any giant amount of hashing power entering to the network and then quitting. We are also going to set the difficulty back to 16 on block 20,290."

ANd note that literally within 2 hours after that screenshot was taken CAT was down to no. 27 or something, below litecoin, par for course because there is extreme volatility among these small-cap altcoins.

 

[geokilla]

Coinwarz is misleading and worse than useless.

After hopping around a little I settled on RPC for the past week and it has been almost as good as DOGE for me. My solo miners did better than my pool miners. Even my pool miners were absurdly lucky. I found 15 blocks (15.015 RPC) for one pool but only have ~9 RPC "earned". Sometimes pool mining can suck.

I care more about fun than profits at this point so that prompted me to go all solo miners. Nice side benefit of not caring if a pool or two are down, as my intranet has 99.999% uptime.

Edit: I should also note that in the process of setting up solo miners I learned more about cgminer and LTC-based wallets/daemons. Worth doing if only for learning purposes.

How do you set up solo mining? I tried that and seemingly followed all instructions. Then cgminer would just auto close when I ran it.

 

[Silverforce11]

snip

Doesn't have to CAT, Doge, whatever. Any given time there's a coin that earns more than LTC. If miners can be bothered they can earn more. Until this changes and LTC becomes THE dominant profitable scrypt coin, what I say is true.

You have a problem with this because your entire anti-mining rant is based on LTC and a 4% difficulty jump.

You have a problem with mining in general. It's time you stop your rubbish and thread crapping because this thread is for people who are interested in MINING.

IF you want to start your investment thread, go ahead.

 

[IEC]

On stage left, I present to you Silverforce, exuberant optimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through rose-tinted glasses.

On stage right, I present to you blastingcap, inexorable pessimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through mud-colored glasses.

Not a whole lot of room for discussion when you've got two extremes fighting it out incessantly.

Now supposedly Silverforce works for AMD or an AIB (proof?) - the real question is what interest(s) are represented by blastingcap? By posting the same thing over and over are you trying to get more people to funnel more money into buying BTC and LTC? Are you trying to discourage people from mining? Looking for bagholders? What's your agenda?

 

[Silverforce11]

On stage left, I present to you Silverforce, exuberant optimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through rose-tinted glasses.

On stage right, I present to you blastingcap, inexorable pessimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through mud-colored glasses.

Not a whole lot of room for discussion when you've got two extremes fighting it out incessantly.

Now supposedly Silverforce works for AMD or an AIB (proof?) - the real question is what interest(s) are represented by blastingcap? By posting the same thing over and over are you trying to get more people to funnel more money into buying BTC and LTC? Are you trying to discourage people from mining? Looking for bagholders? What's your agenda?

Not at all, its my own track record with mining that I look through, if i stuck with LTC for the past month I would have not made anywhere near the same amount of $.

All I have been saying to other miners, if they want more profitability then do their own research, put in a bit of effort and mine something more profitable. If they cannot be bothered, sure, stick with LTC.

BC has been trying to discourage mining for over a year (or two!), his arguments with RussianSensation are well known and can be read in this thread.

 

[IEC]

How do you set up solo mining? I tried that and seemingly followed all instructions. Then cgminer would just auto close when I ran it.

First thing you need to do is edit your *.conf file in Users\<user>\AppData\Roaming\<insert coin name here>.

For example, here is a sample RPC conf file edited to allow for mining over an intranet:

rpcuser=<rpc user>
rpcpassword=<rpc pass>
rpcallowip=127.0.0.1
rpcallowip=192.168.0.*
rpcport=9026
port=9027
daemon=1
server=1
listen=1
gen=0
addnode=68.0.160.3:9027
addnode=5.135.138.52:9027
addnode=209.152.145.27:9027
addnode=208.53.133.42:9027
addnode=37.187.51.15:9027
addnode=88.164.222.223:9027
addnode=82.244.165.198:9027
addnode=217.216.119.160:9027
addnode=37.187.51.15:9027
addnode=82.244.165.198:9027
addnode=217.216.119.160:9027
addnode=69.26.149.224:9027
addnode=84.54.172.244:9027

Then restart your wallet to use the new .conf settings.

Then you add the "pool" just like you would any other pool. Either commandline or in your cgminer.conf.

IF the machine you have your wallet on is mining, you can just point it to 127.0.0.1:<port #>, otherwise the private IP address of your intranet/home network will work as well (192.168.0.* for example). It takes wildcards (*) so it will accept any # in that range.

Use the RPC username and password just like any other user and password you would use for a pool.

If you have firewall troubles or trouble connecting you could always set up a wallet per PC and just have them all localhost (127.0.0.1) mine but that's inefficient, so try to set it up with the additional rpcallowip as above.

Edit:

Further tips:
You will only get shares showing up as "Accepted" when you find a block OR for whatever reason it fails over to any other pool(s) you have configured. So you will have no clue it is working until you find a block.

Also note that solo mining income is inconsistent - you could go days without finding a block or find multiple blocks within a few minutes.

Edit2:

I forgot to mention if you get warnings about Pool 0 being slow or not giving work fast enough you should increase your queue depth in cgminer (settings --> queue). Default is 1 and I found increasing this by a few solved my warnings.

 

[chimaxi83]

Blastingcaps problem in this thread is, and always has been, the fact that mining got popular. Period. He's said many, many times in this thread that bumping/posting in it will only have a negative outcome because of the massive viewership this thread has. Basically, he's mad, and the bitterness shows in all of his posts here. I think he blamed RussianSensation mostly, at least it seemed like it (thanks again RS, you're the reason I started).

This is a mining thread, however, not the crypto investment thread. When will the massive walls of "invest! you have no clue what you're doing if you don't!" condescending crap stop? And what in the hell is the AMD affiliate BS about? Get over yourself dude.

Back to your regularly scheduled pump and dump.

 

[blastingcap]

Doesn't have to CAT, Doge, whatever. Any given time there's a coin that earns more than LTC. If miners can be bothered they can earn more.

You have a problem with this because your entire anti-mining rant is based on LTC and a 4% difficulty jump.

You have a problem with mining in general. It's time you stop your rubbish and thread crapping because this thread is for people who are interested in MINING.

IF you want to start your investment thread, go ahead.

LTC just got a 13% difficulty jump today, not 4%. In fact, LTC difficulty is up 60% in the last month alone. Since all scrypt mining is chained to litecoin profitability (people just arbitrage the difference; for instance if LTC difficulty fell 50% tomorrow, everyone would abandon altcoins and mine LTC until profitability was about even again--that's mining arbitrage), litecoin difficultly is extremely important for all scrypt miners. Btw did you know that all else equal, at 15 cents/kWh, a 1.7% increase in difficulty every adjustment period means that a $310 7970 will NEVER be able to pay for itself?

A couple of posts ago after you kept insulting me, I said let's agree to disagree. You could have agreed. Instead you kept going. So don't complain if you don't like my responses. You brought it upon yourself.

 

[Torn Mind]

Really, I think the long term steady-state is with Litecoin, but that doesn't mean that there are higher short-term gains to be had with other altcoins if you print a ton of them early and then cash.

 

[blastingcap]

On stage left, I present to you Silverforce, exuberant optimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through rose-tinted glasses.

On stage right, I present to you blastingcap, inexorable pessimist who proof-texts his posts while looking through mud-colored glasses.

Not a whole lot of room for discussion when you've got two extremes fighting it out incessantly.

Now supposedly Silverforce works for AMD or an AIB (proof?) - the real question is what interest(s) are represented by blastingcap? By posting the same thing over and over are you trying to get more people to funnel more money into buying BTC and LTC? Are you trying to discourage people from mining? Looking for bagholders? What's your agenda?

It's known to longtime posters in VC&G that certain people on this thread work for AIBs/AMD directly or their affiliates. Need I say whom? They also have a stealth marketing campaign where they give free hardware to people who post on forums. They call them "influencers" and even have a ranking system; number 4 on that list (Durvelle27) was caught on these very forums touting AMD video card results that weren't his, and without disclosing his affiliation, before he was banned. ABT has a writeup of these sleazy marketing efforts. http://alienbabeltech.com/main/amd-intel-kingston-and-nvidia-social-media/

I don't work for any tech company, hell, I don't work in the tech sector period, hardware OR software. In the interest of full disclosure, I very recently took a small position in AMD stock hoping to capitalize on less-well-informed laymen buying AMD stock because they think the mining boom will persist. I plan to cash out before AMD's earnings call this month. So if anything you would expect me to be like certain people and be all rah-rah about mining and encouraging people to buy more AMD cards. I have no other financial stake at all in any of this, I did hold some Intel and NVidia stock like 2 years ago but got rid of it a long time ago.

Contrary to my detractors hypothesizing, the mining cat is already out of the bag so I'd be crazy to think anything I say can stop the mining train; it's way too big at this point for anyone to stop. 42% of Americans polled in early Dec. 2013 correctly identified bitcoin, so I can imagine that among tech enthusiasts the number is more like 99%.

My ACTUAL agenda if you want to call it that is to clean up misinformation on this thread when it gets too far out of control. This *is* an internet forum, yes? Where people often spend inordinate amounts of time disproving others' false statements. I suppose a more positive way to phrase is that is I like to inoculate people from sophism.

http://xkcd.com/386/

Really, I think the long term steady-state is with Litecoin, but that doesn't mean that there are higher short-term gains to be had with other altcoins if you print a ton of them early and then cash.

Bingo, you can gamble on altcoins and come out ahead, if you correctly predict which nascent coins will be studs like dogecoin and which ones will be duds. But there is a lot of effort expended to arbitrage coins so mining profitability differences get arbitraged away fairly quickly (days, sometimes hours); doge is an outlier in how long it took to arbitrage (weeks).

 

[pm]

Fairly interesting reading regarding performance of 79xx/280x cards related to memory used: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=12369.0

This was very helpful for me, Octo. Thanks for posting it.