Debunking Biblical Myths

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: soonerproud

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282
He lived in a time where the general populations intellect was actually below that of those in the south today.

You are a moron.

Do you have links that prove that Southerners have a lower intellect than the rest of the US? Many of this countries most influential fore fathers were southerners including Washington and Jefferson. The best economies in the US today are in the southern states and some prestigious universities are in the south.

Funny thing is there are as many people in the north that believe stuff like the earth is 6000 years old and in a flood. They believe it not on science but purely on faith. You can not disprove faith with science because faith is based on belief, not on actual evidence. That doesn't make people who believe that stuff stupid or even a lower intellect. It just means they are willing to accept the supernatural over the natural.

He is talking about current times, so Washington and Jefferson are irrelevant.

The best economies are in the southern states? Link? Do you mean pre or post meltdown?

Prestigious universities in the south? Not many. Much less than the Northeast or West Coast. I can't really think of any prestigious universities in the south really, except for maybe Tulane, but that school is only well known for being decent in a place filled with crappy schools

There is always Bob Jones University or Pensacola Christian College or even Tennessee Temple University.....shall we add Liberty University -- Jerry Falwell`s school to the mix...lol

 

[SparkyJJO]

Troll thread is full of trolling.

 

[Caveman]

I did about 10 seconds worth of googling and found this... See last paragraph:


The Flood - We've Just Scratched the Surface
We've barely even begun to consider the available evidences for the Flood. Dr. Walt Brown writes, "The origin of each of the following is a subject of controversy with the earth sciences. Each has many aspects inconsistent with standard explanations. Yet all appear to be consequences of a sudden and unrepeatable event - a cataclysmic flood whose waters erupted from worldwide, subterranean, and interconnected chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of ten billion hydrogen bombs. Consequences of this event included the rapid formation of the features listed below. The mechanisms involved are well-understood." [1] Dr. Brown then goes on to list and explain these features [2]:

The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons
Mid-oceanic Ridge
Continental Shelves and Slopes
Ocean Trenches
Seamounts and Tablemounts
Earthquakes
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil Formations
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils
Metamorphic Rock
Limestone
Plateaus
Salt Domes
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
Changing Axis Tilt
Comets
Asteroids and Meteroids

The Flood - Explore the Evidence for Yourself
When it comes to the Flood evidences listed above, we highly recommend Dr. Brown's comprehensive and highly referenced treatise, In the Beginning. Dr. Brown is a highly respected member of the scientific community. "Walt Brown received a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) where he was a National Science Foundation Fellow. He has taught college courses in physics, mathematics, and computer science. Brown is a retired full colonel (Air Force), West Point graduate, and former Army ranger and paratrooper. Assignments during his 21 years in the military included: Director of Benet Research, Development, and Engineering Laboratories in Albany, New York; tenured associate professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy; and Chief of Science and Technology Studies at the Air War College. For much of his life, Walt Brown was an evolutionist, but after many years of study, he became convinced of the scientific validity of creation and a global flood. Since retiring from the military in 1980, Dr. Brown has been the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation and has worked full time in research, writing, and speaking on origins."

So here we have an accomplished fellow... But yet, those here believe they are smarter than this man... It's not that I have some burning desire to proove the flood... But I would like to know how people here believe in science, yet put others down who are more advanced than themselves in it's study...

How does that work?

I'm sure the guy above isn't the only scientist in the world that believes the flood occurred because of quantifiable evidence...

 

[seemingly random]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: nkgreen

Originally posted by: Scionix
As someone from Alabama and a Christian, I find these threads hilarious.

I just love how some people on either side think they are so "enlightened" that the unwashed masses are just below them, if only they could see their superior intellect and reasoning. Please. The debate about the bible and the validity of it's stories is far too complex for an ATOT thread. Also, bashing the south just makes you look ignorant and if anything hurts your case.

Woah, another Alabamian....:Q

yeah at least it's not at the level of Mississippi and Louisiana for nationally known stupidity.

Pretty close though. Black churches are still burned in al - several this decade. Some of the locals say it's just kids blowing off steam...

As much as I disagree with religious beliefs and those who wear it on their sleeve and like to declare it publicly, I don't think their places of worship should be burned.

 

[Sea Moose]

Jesus loves the children

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Unless he wanted man to develop on his own and not be told everything. Look in the bible at the times when God intervened , not the times that were trumped up to him by the church, but the actual events that are taken to be direct actions by God. Almost every one of them was taken with the stance that man had gone too far, or devolved to the point beyond recovery. To me it reads like someone who helps a child get its first steps then once the child is walking lets them make their own decisions.

I really do believe that we were originally created but then corrupted by something/satan/devil or whatever you want to call it and that God rather than destroy humanity decided to give us a chance to see if we can evolve into something better.

So do you go for that whole Noah's Ark thing, what with God wiping out a looooot of people because he didn't like how things were going? When do we hit his ever-loving point of "Ding, you fail! Ok people, it's time for genocide!"
Are we just some kind of experiment then? An experiment that's done by a a being who's too inept to keep Igor from screwing with his work?

I don't follow any organized religion, but I find it unlikely that we are here on the Earth because of some random comets bringing the building blocks of life to a hunk of rock. I think it all fits together too well , everything from the Earth being at the just the right distance from the sun, to DNA, for it all just to be accidental.

Still putting the horse before the cart.
Does the Puddle Analogy need to get brought out again?

 

[Mr. Lennon]

Originally posted by: Caveman
I did about 10 seconds worth of googling and found this... See last paragraph:


The Flood - We've Just Scratched the Surface
We've barely even begun to consider the available evidences for the Flood. Dr. Walt Brown writes, "The origin of each of the following is a subject of controversy with the earth sciences. Each has many aspects inconsistent with standard explanations. Yet all appear to be consequences of a sudden and unrepeatable event - a cataclysmic flood whose waters erupted from worldwide, subterranean, and interconnected chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of ten billion hydrogen bombs. Consequences of this event included the rapid formation of the features listed below. The mechanisms involved are well-understood." [1] Dr. Brown then goes on to list and explain these features [2]:

The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons
Mid-oceanic Ridge
Continental Shelves and Slopes
Ocean Trenches
Seamounts and Tablemounts
Earthquakes
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil Formations
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils
Metamorphic Rock
Limestone
Plateaus
Salt Domes
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
Changing Axis Tilt
Comets
Asteroids and Meteroids

The Flood - Explore the Evidence for Yourself
When it comes to the Flood evidences listed above, we highly recommend Dr. Brown's comprehensive and highly referenced treatise, In the Beginning. Dr. Brown is a highly respected member of the scientific community. "Walt Brown received a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) where he was a National Science Foundation Fellow. He has taught college courses in physics, mathematics, and computer science. Brown is a retired full colonel (Air Force), West Point graduate, and former Army ranger and paratrooper. Assignments during his 21 years in the military included: Director of Benet Research, Development, and Engineering Laboratories in Albany, New York; tenured associate professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy; and Chief of Science and Technology Studies at the Air War College. For much of his life, Walt Brown was an evolutionist, but after many years of study, he became convinced of the scientific validity of creation and a global flood. Since retiring from the military in 1980, Dr. Brown has been the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation and has worked full time in research, writing, and speaking on origins."

So here we have an accomplished fellow... But yet, those here believe they are smarter than this man... It's not that I have some burning desire to proove the flood... But I would like to know how people here believe in science, yet put others down who are more advanced than themselves in it's study...

How does that work?

I'm sure the guy above isn't the only scientist in the world that believes the flood occurred because of quantifiable evidence...

The guy above is a creationist who is desperately trying to prove his beliefs by misconstruing science. The only people that support him are fellow creationists who are equally delusional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Brown_(creationist)

"In 1989, the Creation/Evolution journal of the National Center for Science Education published a critique of Brown's theory. Jim Lippard, graduate student of philosophy begins with a criticism focusing primarily on fossil evidence of human evolution [7]. Brown addressed several of Lippard's points in his response, [8] and three further articles were printed: Lippard, [9] Brown, [10] and ending with Lippard, where he asserts that Brown made serious errors, including using "mistaken claims about what others have written."[11] The series of articles does not discuss Brown's Hydroplate Theory, apart from Brown's claim that Lippard "dismisses or ignores the bulk of the book and specifically addresses only a very small fraction of its substance."

"Philosopher Robert T. Pennock describes Brown's position as being typical, other than the unique feature of his hydroplates hypothesis, of young-earth creationists in desiring to explain all major terrestrial features in terms of a catastrophic Biblical flood."

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: OCguy
All you need to believe is parents who force the shit down your throat when you are at the age when you believe a man can deliver packages to every house in a single night, and have time to stop and eat your cookies. Or that a tiny winged woman will lift your pillow in the middle of the night and leave you currency in exchange for your nasty ass teeth.

Let me guess...you're going to tell me the Easter Bunny doesn't exist! You my friend clearly don't have faith!

Bingo!

 

[oogabooga]

It's late and I am not going to do the research - but isn't the idea or myth of a great flood that covered "the earth" something is prevalent in a number of cultures. Granted that could just be pure coincidence and I'm not saying otherwise - nor was the person making the study. I just remember hearing something about this - and i remember hearing once (not from a religious person) that there was a good possibility that there was a flood, maybe not covering the whole earth - but at least large parts of it. Still, regardless of if there was or not, that won't change my day one bit.

I bet all of Jesus' parables weren't true stories - we should research further into each story to verify! The hunt for the good samaritan, prodigal sun, and various farmers with seeds begins.

 

[Caveman]

Originally posted by: Zeppelin2282

Originally posted by: Caveman
I did about 10 seconds worth of googling and found this... See last paragraph:


The Flood - We've Just Scratched the Surface
We've barely even begun to consider the available evidences for the Flood. Dr. Walt Brown writes, "The origin of each of the following is a subject of controversy with the earth sciences. Each has many aspects inconsistent with standard explanations. Yet all appear to be consequences of a sudden and unrepeatable event - a cataclysmic flood whose waters erupted from worldwide, subterranean, and interconnected chambers with an energy release exceeding the explosion of ten billion hydrogen bombs. Consequences of this event included the rapid formation of the features listed below. The mechanisms involved are well-understood." [1] Dr. Brown then goes on to list and explain these features [2]:

The Grand Canyon and Other Canyons
Mid-oceanic Ridge
Continental Shelves and Slopes
Ocean Trenches
Seamounts and Tablemounts
Earthquakes
Magnetic Variations on the Ocean Floor
Submarine Canyons
Coal and Oil Formations
Methane Hydrates
Ice Age
Frozen Mammoths
Major Mountain Ranges
Overthrusts
Volcanoes and Lava
Geothermal Heat
Strata and Layered Fossils
Metamorphic Rock
Limestone
Plateaus
Salt Domes
Jigsaw Fit of the Continents
Changing Axis Tilt
Comets
Asteroids and Meteroids

The Flood - Explore the Evidence for Yourself
When it comes to the Flood evidences listed above, we highly recommend Dr. Brown's comprehensive and highly referenced treatise, In the Beginning. Dr. Brown is a highly respected member of the scientific community. "Walt Brown received a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) where he was a National Science Foundation Fellow. He has taught college courses in physics, mathematics, and computer science. Brown is a retired full colonel (Air Force), West Point graduate, and former Army ranger and paratrooper. Assignments during his 21 years in the military included: Director of Benet Research, Development, and Engineering Laboratories in Albany, New York; tenured associate professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy; and Chief of Science and Technology Studies at the Air War College. For much of his life, Walt Brown was an evolutionist, but after many years of study, he became convinced of the scientific validity of creation and a global flood. Since retiring from the military in 1980, Dr. Brown has been the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation and has worked full time in research, writing, and speaking on origins."

So here we have an accomplished fellow... But yet, those here believe they are smarter than this man... It's not that I have some burning desire to proove the flood... But I would like to know how people here believe in science, yet put others down who are more advanced than themselves in it's study...

How does that work?

I'm sure the guy above isn't the only scientist in the world that believes the flood occurred because of quantifiable evidence...

The guy above is a creationist who is desperately trying to prove his beliefs by misconstruing science. The only people that support him are fellow creationists who are equally delusional.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Brown_(creationist)

"In 1989, the Creation/Evolution journal of the National Center for Science Education published a critique of Brown's theory. Jim Lippard, graduate student of philosophy begins with a criticism focusing primarily on fossil evidence of human evolution [7]. Brown addressed several of Lippard's points in his response, [8] and three further articles were printed: Lippard, [9] Brown, [10] and ending with Lippard, where he asserts that Brown made serious errors, including using "mistaken claims about what others have written."[11] The series of articles does not discuss Brown's Hydroplate Theory, apart from Brown's claim that Lippard "dismisses or ignores the bulk of the book and specifically addresses only a very small fraction of its substance."

"Philosopher Robert T. Pennock describes Brown's position as being typical, other than the unique feature of his hydroplates hypothesis, of young-earth creationists in desiring to explain all major terrestrial features in terms of a catastrophic Biblical flood."

Reread your first 2 sentences... You've just elevated yourself above the level of "Dr. Brown" (whoever he is), and others. Which can be a completely valid thing to do if you back it up with something other than emotions. What are your credentials for judging these people? It sounds like you just mimick what you hear another scientist say about another... Then it's just a "my daddy's better than your daddy" argument... But, there's a sense in looking at someone who has a Phd in science and knowing they may know a bit more on the subject than you/I.

These discussions of "science" rarely amount to any sort of talk about science. My credentials are very limited. I've spent the last 18 years of using a BSME in the space and defense industry. I'd assume yours may be similarly limited... I've read many "science" books, etc... Making any sort of conclusion on the flood one way or another is irrational and not very scientific. It makes the evolutionist crowd sound as desparate and uneducated as the "creationists" they despise for the same reason.

As for the earth being 6000 years old, please understand that the Hebrew in the bible supports an earth that could be billions of years old. The creation spoken of in Genesis that mainstream Christianity speaks of is a "recreation", and totally supports a scientific timeline of eons.

Using mainstream "Christain" ideas to shoot down any notions that there was a flood, etc. really just shows the ignorance of all who profess to know science. Assuming mainstream christianity has a handle on what the bible says is also laughable... They haven't a clue...

Try looking harder for the answers. You may one day be surprised.

 

[SunSamurai]

Look people, its this simple, if you try and use religion/science as a weapon against science/religion, you're doing it WRONG.

They are two sides of the same coin. Trying to make one side attack the other results in it flipping end over end to land on a random side. Each time you do this is a new flip. Probability will be a 50/50 split resulting in all of this BS being meaningless and you're all better off shutting the fuck up

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: SunSamurai
Look people, its this simple, if you try and use religion/science as a weapon against science/religion, you're doing it WRONG.

They are two sides of the same coin. Trying to make one side attack the other results in it flipping end over end to land on a random side. Each time you do this is a new flip. Probability will be a 50/50 split resulting in all of this BS being meaningless and you're all better off shutting the fuck up

One takes evidence and creates a hypothesis to explain why that evidence is the way it is, and this hypothesis is then tested as thoroughly as is possible.

The other makes a hypothesis first, and then finds evidence to make the hypothesis true, discarding or ignoring all that does not support it.

Same coin?

Maybe more like fighting apples with oranges.

 

[SunSamurai]

Jeff, youre weighting them both on a bias scale. Not really accurite. So yes. Same coin, opposite sides.

 

[child of wonder]

Originally posted by: SunSamurai
Jeff, youre weighting them both on a bias scale. Not really accurite. So yes. Same coin, opposite sides.

One is fantasy, one is reality.

Although one is veiled in "faith" so it becomes taboo to question such fantasies even if they involve people coming back to life, DC-9's dropping aliens into volcanoes, writing books from golden tablets translated through a hat, the earth being 6,000 years old, ad infinitum.