Deeko's powerlifting thread

[Deeko]

Saturday, January 15, 2011

Good Morning
45 lb x 5
95 lb x 5
115 lb x 5
135 lb x 5
155 lb x 5

Zercher Squat
135 lb x 5
185 lb x 5
225 lb x 5
245 lb x 5

T-Bar Row
75 lb x 5
100 lb x 5
125 lb x 5
150 lb x 5

Lat Pulldown
130 lb x 5
150 lb x 5
170 lb x 5

Hammer Curl
30 lb x 6
35 lb x 5
40 lb x 5

Notes
I don't really miss zerchers.

tags
ss&p

 

[brikis98]

Out of curiosity, what is the point of zercher squats? What do they train that you don't get from normal squats/deadlifts?

 

[Deeko]

Various points about the zercher:

-Works the core a lot harder than standard squats or deadlifts. Definitely a useful assistance exercise there.
-Weight is balanced lower and to the front, requires a different kind of stability
-If you look at what you're doing with a zercher, it almost mimics lifting a big stone, so its useful for strongman straining.
-Since you aren't putting the load on your back, it can be a squat substitute for people rehabbing from various back injuries.
-It hurts like hell, and I guess building pain tolerance is good in this sport.

These aren't all necessarily reasons I use it, just points about the exercise in general.

 

[Zivic]

Various points about the zercher:

-Works the core a lot harder than standard squats or deadlifts. Definitely a useful assistance exercise there.
-Weight is balanced lower and to the front, requires a different kind of stability
-If you look at what you're doing with a zercher, it almost mimics lifting a big stone, so its useful for strongman straining.
-Since you aren't putting the load on your back, it can be a squat substitute for people rehabbing from various back injuries.
-It hurts like hell, and I guess building pain tolerance is good in this sport.

These aren't all necessarily reasons I use it, just points about the exercise in general.

I don't understand why anyone but a VERY serious competitor would do this. You would have to have completely exhausted every other lift. I don't see the benefit of this over a standard squat for most people. people have a hard enough time doing squats, focus on those

 

[Deeko]

I don't understand why anyone but a VERY serious competitor would do this. You would have to have completely exhausted every other lift. I don't see the benefit of this over a standard squat for most people. people have a hard enough time doing squats, focus on those

My gym has roughly half a dozen IPF world record holders, the USAPL champion women's master team, a card-holding pro strongman, and the coach is in the WA state hall of fame. Hence the usage of what you call techniques for "only VERY serious competitors".

Am I as good as those people? No - not yet - but that doesn't mean I need to be following Starting Strength letter for letter, either.

 

[Zivic]

My gym has roughly half a dozen IPF world record holders, the USAPL champion women's master team, a card-holding pro strongman, and the coach is in the WA state hall of fame. Hence the usage of what you call techniques for "only VERY serious competitors".

Am I as good as those people? No - not yet - but that doesn't mean I need to be following Starting Strength letter for letter, either.

in the end, it isn't going to get you to their level any faster. what is the purpose? build core strength? why not just keep doing deads or regular squats? is your core your limiting factor in pushing real weight? I highly doubt it. better off doing the regular squats with 1.5x the weight ... more weight = more muscle

you are gaining nothing from that lift that you aren't from a standard squat.

I don't want to completely knock the exercise as I have seen it pop up now in again in the workouts I follow, but this is not something I would recommend as something to consistently do..... I would maybe do something like this 2-4 wks out of a full yr of training

I just think a lift like this adds unneeded complexity, especially for novice and intermediate lifters. there is no place for these specialized lifts in the majority of people's routines

 

[Deeko]

in the end, it isn't going to get you to their level any faster. what is the purpose? build core strength? ... is your core your limiting factor in pushing real weight? I highly doubt it

Have you been with me in the gym? Do you know what my limiting factors are? Of course not. More core strength helps with everything, its hardly something to just brush off. Also - please tell me what "real weight" I should be pushing. I did a 400lb USAPL-legal squat in June before my back injury @ 160lb bodyweight. Is that "real" enough for you?

why not just keep doing deads or regular squats?

You are acting like I'm doing these instead of regular squats or deadlifts - I'm not. If I hadn't done Zerchers on Saturday, I would have done a different assistance exercise. In the other thread, you went on a tangent about how you don't need to do squats that often - you appear to be contradicting yourself now.

I don't want to completely knock the exercise as I have seen it pop up now in again in the workouts I follow

So then why are you doing it? Have you read my log?

I just think a lift like this adds unneeded complexity, especially for novice and intermediate lifters. there is no place for these specialized lifts in the majority of people's routines

I'm not a novice or intermediate lifter nor am I "the majority of people", so this doesn't really apply to me.

 

[Zivic]

Have you been with me in the gym? Do you know what my limiting factors are? Of course not. More core strength helps with everything, its hardly something to just brush off. Also - please tell me what "real weight" I should be pushing. I did a 400lb USAPL-legal squat in June before my back injury @ 160lb bodyweight. Is that "real" enough for you?


% of bodyweight that is decent, but I would call 400-450 for reps real weight... 1 rep max of 500-600 real weight.


You are acting like I'm doing these instead of regular squats or deadlifts - I'm not. If I hadn't done Zerchers on Saturday, I would have done a different assistance exercise. In the other thread, you went on a tangent about how you don't need to do squats that often - you appear to be contradicting yourself now.

you don't need to do squats that often. and I am not contradicting myself. If I did front squats, the workout would be once a week and would something like this:

squats:
x 6
x 6
x 5

front squats
x 6
x 6

stiff leg deads
x 6
x 6

that would be it, and done ONCE a week



So then why are you doing it? Have you read my log?

I am not doing it... said I have seen it pop up. I maybe did them 6-8 yrs ago. Like I have said, unneeded.

If I did them I would do them to help me correct form. If I felt my form was getting off (leaning forward). I would do them as 'freshener" so to speak



I'm not a novice or intermediate lifter nor am I "the majority of people", so this doesn't really apply to me.

Unless you are making a living at it, I would say they don't apply to you.... or me

 

[Deeko]

-600lb squat at 165? Yea...that's real weight. Real weight that maybe no one in the world can do. The USAPL national record for the 165lb raw squat is 500lbs. So you're saying I'm not doing "real weight" unless I'm the best ever in the country. Interesting theory.

-So what you're really saying is that I should do front squats instead of zerchers? Because I'm already doing raw squats and deadlifts regularly, this is not in the place of either of them. If that's the case (which you'd be massively changing your tune if that's what you now claim), explain why front squats are better than zerchers, or why you have such an issue with my infrequent usage of the exercise (ruling out "squats are better" since I'm still doing squats).

-By "doing it" I meant you are knocking the exercise, not actually performing it.

-There are only a handful of people that actually powerlift for a living. Most IPF world champions receive no money and minimal sponsorships (Titan might give them a squat suit, for example). Additionally, as I mentioned above, the zercher is an incredibly useful tool for a strongman competitor at any level, as it so closely relates to stones. Its silly to try to complain that virtually no one should do them (as an assistance exercise, such as this context, especially).

 

[Zivic]

-600lb squat at 165? Yea...that's real weight. Real weight that maybe no one in the world can do. The USAPL national record for the 165lb raw squat is 500lbs. So you're saying I'm not doing "real weight" unless I'm the best ever in the country. Interesting theory.

You asked me what I thought was real weight.... that is what I think is real weight. Considering I am 80+ lbs heavier than you, my idea of 'real weight' is slightly higher. for your body weight, you seem to doing well. Good job

-So what you're really saying is that I should do front squats instead of zerchers? Because I'm already doing raw squats and deadlifts regularly, this is not in the place of either of them. If that's the case (which you'd be massively changing your tune if that's what you now claim), explain why front squats are better than zerchers, or why you have such an issue with my infrequent usage of the exercise (ruling out "squats are better" since I'm still doing squats).

what I am saying is that they should not be used in replacement of squats at any time. They can be used in conjuction with squats. but my main point is, for the VAST majority of people working out, they are an un-needed lift that can easily be ignored without hindering progress - and what you call zerchers, I call front squats.

-By "doing it" I meant you are knocking the exercise, not actually performing it.

-There are only a handful of people that actually powerlift for a living. Most IPF world champions receive no money and minimal sponsorships (Titan might give them a squat suit, for example). Additionally, as I mentioned above, the zercher is an incredibly useful tool for a strongman competitor at any level, as it so closely relates to stones. Its silly to try to complain that virtually no one should do them (as an assistance exercise, such as this context, especially).

All this banter has me motivated.... If I can work through the next few months without re-aggravating my back, I will definitely look into entering some competitions. the last 2-3 yrs I haven't been that motivated and last yr I injured my back which put a huge damper on me mentally and physically. I have a few people that I know that I can talk to about doing so. A trainer at my gym has a woman he is training that just set a new woman's dead lift record in MN this past yr.

 

[Deeko]

The point of the weight thing is that you made a comment that I need to be doing regular squats so that I can push "real weight"...you have to understand the difference between a 165lb lifter and a 220lb lifter. They don't judge a lightweight boxer on how he would compete against Tyson. 400lbs may not be elite, but its plenty "real" for my weight class.

Front squats != zercher squats. A front squat is when you hold the bar on your front shoulders, like the top of a power clean. A zercher squat is when you hold the bar at your midsection in your elbows.

Zercher Squat
Front Squat

At any rate, if you're motivated to get back to hard training and competing, good for you. I look forward to seeing your results.

 

[Zivic]

The point of the weight thing is that you made a comment that I need to be doing regular squats so that I can push "real weight"...you have to understand the difference between a 165lb lifter and a 220lb lifter. They don't judge a lightweight boxer on how he would compete against Tyson. 400lbs may not be elite, but its plenty "real" for my weight class.

Front squats != zercher squats. A front squat is when you hold the bar on your front shoulders, like the top of a power clean. A zercher squat is when you hold the bar at your midsection in your elbows.

Zercher Squat
Front Squat

At any rate, if you're motivated to get back to hard training and competing, good for you. I look forward to seeing your results.

your zercher = my front squat... I did look it up before I commented on the term zercher....... anyways:

been doing a lot of looking up records the past hr or so.... it's clear that as you go up in weight the % of BW that people are able to do goes down... almost linear. Just goes to show that regardless of weight, once you break a certain lifting weight, it doesn't help as much most would think.

My comment was more along the lines that you can do more weight doing standard squats vs zerchers.... so you are better off doing them. More weight, more muscle.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, your 400 lbs is plenty impressive, good job. But as you get defensive about it and comparing it to Mike Tyson, I just have to ask -> do people care more about the lightweight champion of the world, or the heavyweight champion of the world? In the end, I look at the weight being moved..... being a gym lifter you don't tell people that you squat 2.489265 times your body weight, you tell them you squat 400 lbs...... when people see me lift, I have been asked numerious times what my max is on a given lift.... never once asked my body weight. In the end, it's the raw amount of weight a person moves regardless of bodyweight

 

[SociallyChallenged]

your zercher = my front squat... I did look it up before I commented on the term zercher....... anyways:

been doing a lot of looking up records the past hr or so.... it's clear that as you go up in weight the % of BW that people are able to do goes down... almost linear. Just goes to show that regardless of weight, once you break a certain lifting weight, it doesn't help as much most would think.

My comment was more along the lines that you can do more weight doing standard squats vs zerchers.... so you are better off doing them. More weight, more muscle.

I don't know how many times I have to say it, your 400 lbs is plenty impressive, good job. But as you get defensive about it and comparing it to Mike Tyson, I just have to ask -> do people care more about the lightweight champion of the world, or the heavyweight champion of the world? In the end, I look at the weight being moved..... being a gym lifter you don't tell people that you squat 2.489265 times your body weight, you tell them you squat 400 lbs...... when people see me lift, I have been asked numerious times what my max is on a given lift.... never once asked my body weight. In the end, it's the raw amount of weight a person moves regardless of bodyweight

I'm not here to thread crap, but any serious lifter knows the difference between a front squat and a zercher squat. On top of that, your rebuttal about the Mike Tyson analogy is pretty null, considering that people who are actually interested in the sport understand the differences in weight class. People care when an individual deadlifts 4x their body weight, no matter what the weight class. You have a lot to say, but no real knowledge, videos, or proof to back it up. Let it go and let Deeko live his life. Zercher squats were used as an accessory movement. They're great for individuals who 1) don't have a rack, 2) have cervical neck pain, 3) need to work on lumbar stabilization during the squat, etc. This isn't about raw weight and strength. Deeko tends to not maintain an upright position in squat or sumo deadlift. This exercise will help retrain neuromuscular memory to lift more effectively. Lifting more weight is only beneficial if form is perfect and the individual is injury free. That's essentially no one - that's why accessory movements are necessary.

 

[Zivic]

I'm not here to thread crap, but any serious lifter knows the difference between a front squat and a zercher squat. On top of that, your rebuttal about the Mike Tyson analogy is pretty null, considering that people who are actually interested in the sport understand the differences in weight class. People care when an individual deadlifts 4x their body weight, no matter what the weight class. You have a lot to say, but no real knowledge, videos, or proof to back it up. Let it go and let Deeko live his life. Zercher squats were used as an accessory movement. They're great for individuals who 1) don't have a rack, 2) have cervical neck pain, 3) need to work on lumbar stabilization during the squat, etc. This isn't about raw weight and strength. Deeko tends to not maintain an upright position in squat or sumo deadlift. This exercise will help retrain neuromuscular memory to lift more effectively. Lifting more weight is only beneficial if form is perfect and the individual is injury free. That's essentially no one - that's why accessory movements are necessary.

come to the gym with me and tell me I have no real knowledge or proof. I personally have never met anyone that says they can't do standard squats due to "cervical neck pain". sounds like a bunch of sally-sue excuses to me for reasons not to standard squats... and again, I am not knocking the exercise completely. as i stated before, I just think it is unneeded for the majority of lifters. Some novice reading through all this BS will find this lift, see a bunch of people defending it and think that's what they need to do when they go to the gym. KISS and keep the weight heavy...

Lifting more weight is almost ALWAYS more beneficial. when was the last time you went the gym and said, I could pull 300 for this lift for 5 reps, but I think I will stick to 225???

edit:

what do you sqaut, bench, dead?

 

[Deeko]

Lifting more weight is almost ALWAYS more beneficial. when was the last time you went the gym and said, I could pull 300 for this lift for 5 reps, but I think I will stick to 225???

For someone that's beyond the novice/intermediate stage, proper assistance exercises around weak points is critical. For example - with the deadlift, if you're slow off the floor and fast at the knees, you may need assistance work like a deficit deadlift, or using 35lb plates instead of 45s - or maybe power cleans to improve your explosiveness. Or, say, a bench presser that's fast off the chest that struggles with a lockout - they could benefit from tricep work, bands/chains, or high boards - something that works on the top of the lift.

No, you don't want to neglect the core lift, of course you continue to do them - but you supplement it with the correct assistance exercises as well.

been doing a lot of looking up records the past hr or so.... it's clear that as you go up in weight the % of BW that people are able to do goes down... almost linear. Just goes to show that regardless of weight, once you break a certain lifting weight, it doesn't help as much most would think.

This is a known aspect of human physiology, and its why the Wilks formula used in powerlifting competitions favors heavier lifters.

But as you get defensive about it and comparing it to Mike Tyson, I just have to ask -> do people care more about the lightweight champion of the world, or the heavyweight champion of the world? In the end, I look at the weight being moved..... being a gym lifter you don't tell people that you squat 2.489265 times your body weight, you tell them you squat 400 lbs...... when people see me lift, I have been asked numerous times what my max is on a given lift.... never once asked my body weight. In the end, it's the raw amount of weight a person moves regardless of bodyweight

Sure - you want to be the heavyweight champ. You want to be the next Ed Coan, Andy Bolton, or Doyle Kennedy. But that doesn't take away from the accomplishments of the lighter lifter. Just like no one would scoff at Flloyd Maywether or Manny Pacquiao, someone judging a powerlifter shouldn't look down on Wade Hooper just because he's a 165er.

If you want the fawning admiration of gym rats, yes, doing the absolute heaviest weights (whether they're legal or not) is the best way to do it. However, you'll note that the title of this thread is "Deeko's powerlifting thread", and I've talked about how these lifts relate to powerlifting in pretty much every response to you. There is no special medal at a powerlifting meet for having the absolute highest total. It goes by weight class and by wilks. Well, its possible that some meets give that award, but its an ancillary prize - the USAPL/IPF don't recognize it.

 

[Zivic]

For someone that's beyond the novice/intermediate stage, proper assistance exercises around weak points is critical. For example - with the deadlift, if you're slow off the floor and fast at the knees, you may need assistance work like a deficit deadlift, or using 35lb plates instead of 45s - or maybe power cleans to improve your explosiveness. Or, say, a bench presser that's fast off the chest that struggles with a lockout - they could benefit from tricep work, bands/chains, or high boards - something that works on the top of the lift.

No, you don't want to neglect the core lift, of course you continue to do them - but you supplement it with the correct assistance exercises as well.



This is a known aspect of human physiology, and its why the Wilks formula used in powerlifting competitions favors heavier lifters.



Sure - you want to be the heavyweight champ. You want to be the next Ed Coan, Andy Bolton, or Doyle Kennedy. But that doesn't take away from the accomplishments of the lighter lifter. Just like no one would scoff at Flloyd Maywether or Manny Pacquiao, someone judging a powerlifter shouldn't look down on Wade Hooper just because he's a 165er.

If you want the fawning admiration of gym rats, yes, doing the absolute heaviest weights (whether they're legal or not) is the best way to do it. However, you'll note that the title of this thread is "Deeko's powerlifting thread", and I've talked about how these lifts relate to powerlifting in pretty much every response to you. There is no special medal at a powerlifting meet for having the absolute highest total. It goes by weight class and by wilks. Well, its possible that some meets give that award, but its an ancillary prize - the USAPL/IPF don't recognize it.

I do appreciate your civility and worthwhile content you post. I know I can come across a bit arrogant and know-it-all 'ish, but in the end, I want everyone to do well in what they set out to do.

I just got back from the gym.... spoke with the trainer there that has been powerlifting for 20+ yrs. He sounded pretty enthused about me considering getting into it on a more serious level. He has been suggesting it to me for a couple yrs now, but I never really felt motivated enough, and never really felt my lifts were competitive. I think I really need to get my dead lifts going. I know I will struggle with my grip, so I will definitely need to work on that.

I did legs today and had almost zero pain in my back. I think I could easily handle a double or triple at 400 right now, based on today's workout. Pretty decent considering it's been almost exactly a yr since I have done them in any legitimate form.

 

[Zivic]

Been looking up local info, lifters, and such and came across this guy:
Mike Siegler He trains at a gym about 20 minutes from me. My best friend's dad actually works out there as well. I think I might need to surround myself with some more dedicated lifters. think I am due for a new workout environment and that gym looks like the kind I enjoy working out at... but won't like the drive.

In college I worked here off and on Really enjoyed my time there.

 

[Deeko]

Looks like a nice gym. Good luck with the meet if you end up doing it, keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[Deeko]

Tuesday, January 18, 2011

Squat
135 lb x 5
185 lb x 3
225 lb x 2
255 lb x 1
275 lb x 1 ( Belt )
305 lb x 1 ( Belt )
325 lb x 1 ( Belt )
345 lb x 1 ( Belt )
355 lb x 1 ( Belt )

Pause Squat
225 lb x 3
245 lb x 3
265 lb x 3

Stiff Leg Deadlift
115 lb x 10
135 lb x 5
155 lb x 5

Notes
Back pain? What back pain? Squats felt great - quickly closing in on pre-injury levels.

tags
ss&p

 

[Deeko]

hursday, January 20, 2011

Bench Press
135 lb x 5
185 lb x 3
225 lb x 2
255 lb x 1
275 lb x F
275 lb x 1
290 lb x F

Seated Shoulder Press
95 lb x 5
135 lb x 5
155 lb x 5
165 lb x 3

Tricep Pushdowns
160 lb x 5
180 lb x 5
200 lb x 5

Notes
Kinda shitty day. My bench was off. I slipped at the bottom on the first attempt of 275, and the 290 was close, but not there. I had this weird tightness on the lower inside of my right trap, leading up to my neck. I've had this before but never this bad. I'm sure that didn't help.

tags
ss&p
.

 

[Deeko]

Saturday, January 22, 2011

Deadlift
135 lb x 5
225 lb x 3
275 lb x 2
315 lb x 1
350 lb x 1
365 lb x 2
380 lb x 2

35s Deadlift
255 lb x 5
305 lb x 5
325 lb x 5

Lat Pulldown
140 lb x 5
170 lb x 5
190 lb x 5

Hammer Curl
35 lb x 5
40 lb x 5
45 lb x 5

Notes

Good day deadlifts. Doubling 380 is only 25lbs short of my all time PR, which I'll take for now, so soon after I started going heavy again.

It was pretty hectic at the gym. A guy tore his hamstring deadlifting on the platform with me. Plus, some supplement company had a bunch of their sponsored lifters there doing all kinds of crap, and they kept wanting to take pictures on the platform in between my sets, which was irritating. I did see a guy pull 500x17 with no belt though, that was pretty cool.

tags
ss&p

 

[Deeko]

Tuesday, January 25, 2011

Squat
135 lb x 5
175 lb x 3
225 lb x 3

Reverse Band Squat
315 lb x 3
365 lb x 3
405 lb x 3
425 lb x 3

Box Squat
225 lb x 3
245 lb x 3
265 lb x 3

Notes
Deload squat day. Went totally raw - not belt or wrist wraps. Felt pretty good. Right trap started getting tight again during warmups, but loosened up pretty fast.

tags
ss&p

 

[Deeko]

Thursday, January 27, 2011

Bench Press
135 lb x 5
185 lb x 3
225 lb x 1
245 lb x 5

Reverse Band Bench
315 lb x 5
365 lb x 5
385 lb x 5
405 lb x 4

Overhead Press
45 lb x 5
95 lb x 5
115 lb x 5
125 lb x 5

Notes

Deload bench day. I got scolded because I refused to wear a belt on any of my sets. Bunch of gear whores at my gym.

 

[Deeko]

Tuesday, February 01, 2011

Squat
135 lb x 5
185 lb x 3
225 lb x 2
265 lb x 1
295 lb x 1
315 lb x 3
325 lb x 3
335 lb x 3

Pause Squat
225 lb x 3
255 lb x 3
285 lb x 3

Notes

Started out slow, but got better. My goal was 345x3. Then I hit my first work set of 315 and it was a grind. Got better as they went though, 335 is still respectable - 30lbs heavier than my last triples a few weeks ago.

tags
ss&p

 

[Howard]

edit:

what do you sqaut, bench, dead?

You make a habit of asking this of anyone who disagrees with you about something?