Deeko's powerlifting thread

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Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
16,843
2
0
Not entirely sure. I got over the sciatica I had last year. Starting ~4-5 months ago, I started having a dull pain in the lower right side (opposite of the sciatica side) that intensifies when I do any exercise involving the lower back - so naturally squats & deadlifts. When I'm not lifting, I get the pain when I'm sitting, but rarely when I'm standing. It comes and goes...some weeks I feel nothing, some weeks its pretty bad.



I have a prolapsed L4. I had really bad sciatica about 3yrs ago. It's like a dull ache/ non existent/ phantom pain thing now. I was lucky, no surgery but I had a 'miracle' weekend after 9months of rehab it went away!

I do occasionally 'tweak' the back and it sets me out for 2 weeks though, but at least I can hammer it still!

Hows the recovery going now?

Koing
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Its improving. The day-to-day pain is pretty much gone. I haven't been going heavy on squats/deadlifts (as my log here shows), there's occasional tightness where, but the last two squat workouts have been pain free. Getting there...maybe
 

Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
16,843
2
0
Its improving. The day-to-day pain is pretty much gone. I haven't been going heavy on squats/deadlifts (as my log here shows), there's occasional tightness where, but the last two squat workouts have been pain free. Getting there...maybe

I see mate.

Are you seeing a chiro? Yeah sounds f0cking crazy but I was DESPERATE, saw one and he was REALLY good for me. I had avoided seeing one as I had heard a lot of bad stuff. I saw an oseteopath and he was USELESS. Try and get a person that is good. See how you feel after 5-6 courses of treatment.

I started to add 5kg a week and went from there after my miracle weekend.

Good luck bro!

Koing
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
I have seen a chiro - I have one I used to go to for my sciatica that I go to every now and then (my insurance covers it in full, why not). He thinks there is muscle tightness in my lower back where the glute and erectors meet, causing over compensation and pain.

I'd go more often, but its a bit of a drive (~40 minutes or so) and I'm lazy. I know I should...
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.08.28

Deadlift
135x3
185x1
225x1
245x3x5 (back-to-back-to-back singles)

Barbell Row
135x5
145x5
155x5

Pullups
BWx5
BW+25x5
BW+35x5x3

So I reverted to a bit more of my natural deadlift style on the work sets today. Warmups were already feeling tight in my back, so I basically stopping trying to do things 'awkwardly' for the sake of being by the book. Things like setting up how I want and rolling the bar in, being more over the bar, etc. I gotta say...it felt more natural, stronger, and with no pain or tightness.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.08.30

Bench
135x3
175x1
205x1
225x3
245x3
245x2

Tricep Pushdowns
100x5
150x5
170x5
180x5

Back Extensions
BWx10
BW+10x10
BW+25x10

Good day benching. If I'd had a spotter, I'd have gone for (and probably gotten) the 3rd rep of 245, but there was no one worthwhile around, and I'd rather do one less rep than have some crappy spot by some douche that thinks he needs to hold the bar the whole time.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.09.01

Squats
135x5
185x3
205x1
225x1
225xF

Today was my first day doing back squats since July. My back felt like it had been improving, so I figured I'd try working my way back up.....no go. The tightness was there even on a warmup set with the bar, and when I hit the hole with 225 it was a lightning bolt of pain. Rested, stretched, tried again, and could feel it starting before I even got 1/3 of the way down, so I didn't even bother attempting a real rep.

(side note: skinny kid deadlifting 135 that is friends with the trainers - don't try to stare me down and give me dirty looks over my 1/3 squat attempt like I don't know what I'm doing. I do, a lot more than you do I'm sure.)

Anyway, speaking of knowing what I'm doing, I don't really know where to go from here. I don't want to stop squatting/deadlifting entirely, but it seems that scaling it back has not been as effective at rehabbing this thing as I'd hoped.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
In my experience, few acute injuries - especially those to the back - get better from just rest. You have to actively rehab them or nothing will change. As Kelly Starret discusses in his Acute Injuries discussion, doing nothing often just causes the tissues to "rot". I find that doing very high rep back extensions, supermans and good mornings accelerates the healing process enormously. Working on flexibility - especially of the hamstrings, glutes and hip capsule - allows for better technique and makes it easier to keep the spine safe. If you want good results, you need to do this stuff multiple times per day. Good luck.
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
Would you consider PT? Ultrasound or massage therapy might help.

I second a vote for PT, but definitely not massage or ultrasound. Typically, PTs can utilize tools to increase your proprioception and reduce weightbearing on bulging or ruptured discs. The problem isn't gonna go away by itself so it's a good ideal for longevity's sake to go try to fix it.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
In my experience, few acute injuries - especially those to the back - get better from just rest. You have to actively rehab them or nothing will change. As Kelly Starret discusses in his Acute Injuries discussion, doing nothing often just causes the tissues to "rot". I find that doing very high rep back extensions, supermans and good mornings accelerates the healing process enormously. Working on flexibility - especially of the hamstrings, glutes and hip capsule - allows for better technique and makes it easier to keep the spine safe. If you want good results, you need to do this stuff multiple times per day. Good luck.

The thing is, I've been doing rehab stuff. Maybe not the right things, maybe not enough, but I've been stretching multiple times a day in multiple ways, using a foam roller/lacrosse ball, good mornings, back extensions, etc. Its just not helping. Maybe my plan to do these things while doing moderate deadlifts/front squats wasn't a good combination.

I second a vote for PT, but definitely not massage or ultrasound. Typically, PTs can utilize tools to increase your proprioception and reduce weightbearing on bulging or ruptured discs. The problem isn't gonna go away by itself so it's a good ideal for longevity's sake to go try to fix it.

My chiropractor's office does ART, and they have a PT on staff as well. I really should go more often than I do.
 

KoolDrew

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
10,226
7
81
You may have already mentioned it, but what have you been doing to try to rehab your back? I'd take a good look at your hip and thoracic spine mobility. Lack of mobility in those areas usually result in your lumbar spine taking the load instead. Work on foam rolling and stretching your thoracic extensors, hip flexors, glutes, and hamstrings. Even ankle mobility could be an issue. If you lack mobility (specifically dorsiflexion) you'll tend to round your lower back. Core stability plays a very important roll as well - perhaps incorporating ab wheel rollouts, pallof presses, etc. into your routine.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
The thing is, I've been doing rehab stuff. Maybe not the right things, maybe not enough, but I've been stretching multiple times a day in multiple ways, using a foam roller/lacrosse ball, good mornings, back extensions, etc. Its just not helping. Maybe my plan to do these things while doing moderate deadlifts/front squats wasn't a good combination.

What exactly are you doing? What exercises, how long or how many reps, how many times per day?
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
The thing is, I've been doing rehab stuff. Maybe not the right things, maybe not enough, but I've been stretching multiple times a day in multiple ways, using a foam roller/lacrosse ball, good mornings, back extensions, etc. Its just not helping. Maybe my plan to do these things while doing moderate deadlifts/front squats wasn't a good combination.

My chiropractor's office does ART, and they have a PT on staff as well. I really should go more often than I do.

You can't necessarily stretch/foam roll your way out of an impinged spinal root. Typically, there are some special ways of increasing proprioception through hip location drills, etc that can alleviate pressure on the affected side. It's not a muscular problem at this point, especially since you have shooting pain (if I remember correctly). It's time to go see a healthcare professional of some sort. Wish you felt better, man.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
You can't necessarily stretch/foam roll your way out of an impinged spinal root. Typically, there are some special ways of increasing proprioception through hip location drills, etc that can alleviate pressure on the affected side. It's not a muscular problem at this point, especially since you have shooting pain (if I remember correctly). It's time to go see a healthcare professional of some sort. Wish you felt better, man.

I last went to the chiropractor about 2 weeks ago, he was confident at the time that it was muscular. For what its worth, the pain is nothing like the sciattica I had last year.

What exactly are you doing? What exercises, how long or how many reps, how many times per day?

I do various back/glute stretches 2-3x a day. Every time I'm at the gym I start with a warmup of back extensions - I've varied it between a few sets with no weight fro 15-20 reps, or light weight (10-25lbs) for 10). This week I did no weight/high reps. I'm also doing good mornings once a week, between 45-95lbs, between 5-10 reps, for 3-5 sets. Additionally I have the foam roller & lacrosse ball.

You may have already mentioned it, but what have you been doing to try to rehab your back? I'd take a good look at your hip and thoracic spine mobility. Lack of mobility in those areas usually result in your lumbar spine taking the load instead. Work on foam rolling and stretching your thoracic extensors, hip flexors, glutes, and hamstrings. Even ankle mobility could be an issue. If you lack mobility (specifically dorsiflexion) you'll tend to round your lower back. Core stability plays a very important roll as well - perhaps incorporating ab wheel rollouts, pallof presses, etc. into your routine.

I'm pretty inflexible everywhere, especially the hamstrings, so its possible that's relating somewhere. My chiropractor thinks the issue stems from tightness where the glute and erectors meet, leading to other issues, which is similar.
 

KoolDrew

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
10,226
7
81
Stuart McGill (THE spine biomechanics guy) has often said most people with back problems don't have back problems due to a lack of strength in their lower back. In fact, it's usually the opposite - guys with back problems usually have stronger backs than those without. What they do lack is endurance and usually mobility/flexibility around the hips. Usually getting the right muscles (mainly the glutes) working is a challenge for people as well.

All of this is just to give you an idea of what to go off of, because there's no way for any of us to know for sure what you're exact problem is, but since you did mention you lack flexibility, that'd be where I'd start. Some glute activation and glute strengthening work would be a good idea (clams, glute bridges, hip thrusts, bird dogs). You may not need it, but stronger glutes definitely won't hurt anything and may help. I know I mentioned it before too, but what are you doing for abs? Just like the glutes, stronger abs will do even more to spare your low back, and both will likely help your lifts as well.

Foam rolling, stretching, activation work, stability exercises - it's all boring as hell and I hate doing them, but sometimes they're a necessity if you want to continue lifting heavy and injury free. If you're back is really messed up, sometimes it's even best to just stop loaded lower body movements for a good 4 weeks and just concentrate on the mobility stuff.
 
Last edited:

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Stuart McGill (THE spine biomechanics guy) has often said most people with back problems don't have back problems due to a lack of strength in their lower back. In fact, it's usually the opposite - guys with back problems usually have stronger backs than those without. What they do lack is endurance and usually mobility/flexibility around the hips. Usually getting the right muscles (mainly the glutes) working is a challenge for people as well.

All of this is just to give you an idea of what to go off of, because there's no way for any of us to know for sure what you're exact problem is, but since you did mention you lack flexibility, that'd be where I'd start. Some glute activation and glute strengthening work would be a good idea (clams, glute bridges, hip thrusts, bird dogs). You may not need it, but stronger glutes definitely won't hurt anything and may help. I know I mentioned it before too, but what are you doing for abs? Just like the glutes, stronger abs will do even more to spare your low back, and both will likely help your lifts as well.

Foam rolling, stretching, activation work, stability exercises - it's all boring as hell and I hate doing them, but sometimes they're a necessity if you want to continue lifting heavy and injury free. If you're back is really messed up, sometimes it's even best to just stop loaded lower body movements for a good 4 weeks and just concentrate on the mobility stuff.

To answer your question - I don't do much for abs, and I should do more. I occasionally do weighted decline crunches but thats really it. I do have an ab wheel lying around my house somewhere...glute exercises wouldn't hurt either, you're right.

Out of curiosity, which ones, for how long, with what technique, etc? When I had back issues, I found some stretches helped a lot (e.g. the prone glute stretch done with the leg on a table, PNF style) while others were totally useless (e.g. standing hamstring stretch with rounded back).

I do the standing hamstring stretch, but I actively keep my back as arches as I can while I do it. Two birds with one stone I guess. That one I do fairly static, holding for about 30 seconds or so, 3x. I do a standing hurdlers stretch, more dynamically, only holding for a few seconds before releasing and going again. When I'm at home, a lying PNF hamstring stretch. My chiropractor recommended what he called the "golf stretch" for the glutes, where you lay on your back and twist back and forth, with the leg and arms going opposite directions...hard to explain. Anyway, those are the main ones, I do other various things occasionally as well.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.09.09

Bench
(warmups)
205x1
225x2
235x3
245x3

Was in a hurry and didn't feel all that strong, still turned out to be a half decent bench workout.
 

brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
I do the standing hamstring stretch, but I actively keep my back as arches as I can while I do it. Two birds with one stone I guess. That one I do fairly static, holding for about 30 seconds or so, 3x. I do a standing hurdlers stretch, more dynamically, only holding for a few seconds before releasing and going again. When I'm at home, a lying PNF hamstring stretch. My chiropractor recommended what he called the "golf stretch" for the glutes, where you lay on your back and twist back and forth, with the leg and arms going opposite directions...hard to explain. Anyway, those are the main ones, I do other various things occasionally as well.

A few comments/questions:

1. Are you measuring progress in any way? Obviously, with lifting you know you've improved by how much you lift. Are you doing any tracking of your stretching, and if so, are you seeing improvement?

2. Focus more on PNF stretching and stretch for longer (90-120 seconds per stretch). Here is a great demonstration of a hamstring PNF stretch by Kelly Starrett. You can also consider following his Daily Mobility Workout.

3. Along with hamstring stretches, you definitely want to make sure you focus on movements that loosen up everything in your hips/glutes. The standing glute stretch done with contract/relax (you can put your leg on a table, back of a couch, whatever) is amazing at relieving pressure on the back. You can also do it seated (even at work) - cross a leg over, keep the knee down, back straight, and try to lean forward. You'll feel both of these in the hip capsule, glutes and anything else tight in the area.

4. If you have a subscription to the CFJ (well worth $25/year, even if you don't do CF), Kelly Starrett has a lot of great mobilization videos: Opening Up the Hip, Rebuilding Khalipa, and hip prep.

Good luck. Injuries take time to heal and flexibility can take a lot of time to develop. Stick with it and you'll get there.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.09.14

Bench
(warmups)
205x1
225x1
245x3
255x3x3

Seated DB Press
55x5
65x3
70x3
75xF (probably could have pressed it, but I couldn't clean it up to the starting position. that's kinda sad.)
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
To answer your question about progress - the only real tangible indicator I have is how far I can actually go (for example - in a standing bent over hamstring stretch I used to barely reach my ankles. Now I get farther.). Other less measurable things like is the back hurting, how tight does it feel, is the stretch uncomfortable, etc...
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Chinups

BWx5
BW+25x3
BW+50x3
BW+70x1
BW+90x3
BW+90x2

OH Press
95x3
115x1
135x3
145x3
150x3 PR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD4etdVzbxE

PR triple on the press today, felt good, probably could have hit 155x3, and considering 155 is my PR single...I'll take it.

I haven't been posting my boring rehab stuff because its, well, boring. However, I thought I'd point out that Thursday I was doing some high rep squats with just the bar. Note that to me, "high rep" means 10, I've only done more than 5 once in the past several years. On the 3rd set of 45x10, I felt a flash fo fatigue in my quads. It was very unexpected. I was tired all day, and I'm still sore from it.

This is weird because A) its such a low weight and B) my quads never get sore from squats, its my hamstring/glutes. I realize I haven't been doing squats lately, and I never do reps that high, but still...weird.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
2010.09.24

Bench Press
(warmups)
205x3
235x5
245x5

Seated DB Press
50x5
65x5
70x4

Pushdowns
120x5
150x5
180x5
190x4

The 245x5 bench was surprisingly easy. Easier than the 235. Probably could have hit 255 if I'd tried, which would tie a PR. I think next week I'll aim to tie my PR triple (265).
 
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