Defective 4870 killed motherboard

[ddarko]

Did my CPU die? Tonight got home and replaced a 8800gt with a 4870. My board is a asus maximus formula and psu is corsair 620watt and CPU is 6600. All were bought in jan 2008. I use a zerotherm fan. When I turned on my system, fans started but then system suddenly shut down before post or hard drives even started. I smelled a faint burning smell. After a couple seconds, the system tried automatically to reboot on its own but same peoblem. Ati says my psu can handle a 4870 but I decided to put back the 8800gt. Uh oh. Same problem, no boot. The motherboard comes with an LCD diagnostic screen that reads "CPU init" and never changes. Also, the CPU lights on the board never lights up. I tested with another psu but same problem. I really don't know what's going on. Please help any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[o1die]

I would be sure it's not a board or ps problem before getting another cpu. If possible, try a low end video card and another power supply, one that doesn't require the extra power supply connector to try to get your board to post. If you don't have a spare pc, then I would get a cheaper newegg open box board and try it first before getting another cpu. I went through the rma process with Intel once, and they got me a new cpu in about 6 days, but they only do this for retail box, not oem cpus.

 

[imported_Woody]

Yes, troubleshooting is the only way to solve the problem. Swapping out various parts to attempt to isolate the problem as much as possible. I'm not familiar with the motherboard off the top of my head but in the manual there should be a troubleshooting guide and POST information that may give you some clue about the specific nature of the failure.

The fact you mentioned a burning smell leads me to think your Power Supply is fried, however you said you already tested another one...was it powerful enough? The other possible scenario is that upon replacing the video card you somehow managed to short the motherboard out against the case. You could try removing the motherboard and visually inspecting it very carefully for signs of a short. Can you think of any other things you may have done that could have caused this during the vid card swap?

 

[superunknown98]

If you didn't touch the cpu, then i wouldn't think it was the problem. Chances are the motherboard blew a cap or something else burned up. But take everything out of the case and place it on a cardborad box and try to get it to boot. Try resetting the bios too. If it still does not work and there is no visable damage to anything, i would send the motherboard back.

 

[ddarko]

Thank you for the replies, you guys are great. I spoke to Asus tech support this morning and he suggested I disconnect the CPU, memory, video card, pretty much everything, and then try to power the motherboard. I did and the motherboard stays powered without shutting down and restarting. As soon as I added only the CPU, the board started to act up again. I don't think this necessarily means the CPU is at fault? It's possible that the CPU is fine but the board's CPU connection got fried? In any case, I just bought a Q9300 at a store and will try to swap it out and see. My only issue now is that I think my board's BIOS is earlier than 1004, which Asus says you need for the Q9300. So can I flash the BIOS on this board using a processor that isn't yet supported until after I update the BIOS? Catch-22? Obviously, I can't flash it with my old Q6600 since the system won't post at all.

p.s. Oh one thing that I've been stupidly doing since I got the board back in January 2008: I've been powering it with the 24-pin and 4-pin connectors, NOT the 8-pin. I foolishly didn't notice that the 8-pin came half-capped, which I had to remove. The board has been running fine with the 4-pin but I think when I added the 4870, with its dual 6-pin power plugs, there wasn't enough power and something happened to the board and/or CPU.

 

[GundamF91]

4pin ATX12V should be good enough for the power. The burnt smell is still a major clue. 620W Corsair should be more than enough to handle any single card GPU out there. This is especially true on bootup because you're not taxing the power much. If you have another PSU, try it out and see if that works.

That said, the mobo test w/o CPU doesn't really do a whole lot. Trouble shooting is all about fault isolation. So you need to basically have a spare of CPU, PSU, and memory to do basic trouble shooting. I think it's the mobo.

 

[ddarko]

Thanks again for the reply. I swapped out the Corsair PSU with a Silverstone 600w and the problem persists. I tried it without the video card, just the motherboard, CPU, memory and hard drive so the Silverstone should have had more than enough juice. So I think it's safe to rule out the Corsair PSU as the source?

I'm really hoping it's not the motherboard, even though it's under warranty and Asus will repair or replace it. Asus is saying 7-10 business days for a first time RMA; no cross shipping and I really can't afford to be without a computer for two weeks. Even though I spent $300 for a new processor which I'd rather not, at least if the CPU is the culprit, my computer may be back tonight (also depending on whether I will be able to flash update my BIOS using the new Q9300). Oh well, will post updates and am open to any and all suggestions.

 

[imported_Woody]

You can't flash the BIOS with an unsupported CPU. If ASUS is sending you a replacement board it will probably have the latest BIOS but you should ask. If they are going to repair the same board, maybe you can persuade them to update the BIOS for you.

 

[dajeepster]

I would check to make sure that the heat sink on the cpu is mounted properly or didn't loose. the easiest and cheapest route would be just to redo the heat sink... ie.. preplace the thermal past and reseat the heat sink... doesn't cost you a think except time and paste.. assuming you have past on hand... I have 4 different brands of paste in my parts bin

 

[ddarko]

well I tried to boot with a new CPU and same exact result. I think it's pretty clear that something burned up on the board. I spoke with asus Rma and they may be able to cross ship if they have the board in stock. Keeping my fingers crossed, won't know until next week. Meanwhile, need to decide what to do now with two CPUs. I assume my q6600 is still good and now I have a q9450. Which one to keep, which to sell? I was able to overclock the q6600 to 3.0 ghz; never tried to push it further. Suggestions?

 

[GundamF91]

Do you care about the money, or the performance? If you want best performance, you definitely want Q9450 unless you're willing to burn up the Q6600 to 3.5Ghz or faster. But value wise, you'll probably sell Q9450 for nearly what you paid for, while the Q6600 is not worth as much as what you paid for.

 

[ddarko]

I was able to return the Q9450 for a refund from the store I bought it from without a restocking fee.

Here's an update on my dead motherboard: the culprit seems to be the 4870 video card. I installed it on another board, a A8N-SLI Deluxe with an Athlon64 3500 processor with Windows XP (my first computer was using Vista). Turned on the system and the fan on the video card started but in spurts, like it was trying to reach full spin but never did. Turned off the computer, turned it on again. Still nothing, although this second time, the fan didn't sputter like before. Took out the 4870 and installed the 1900XT that was working fine with the board 5 minutes before. Nothing. Almost this board didn't cycle shutdown-restart-shutdown like my Maximus Formula board, it also didn't POST or boot at all. Interestingly, the fan on the 1900XT goes full speed, which it does when you first turn it in, but never throttles back like it does during a regular boot.

I suppose it could be my Cosair HX620 power supply, which I used on both systems, but the PSU is definitely capable of handling this card plus I can't see how inadequate power could fry the system like this. So it seems to me that it's a seriously defective 4870. I've never had anything close to this ever happen to me before. Frustrating as heck b/c the second computer was working perfectly and I foolishly and stupidly installed the killer 4870 in it. Kicking myself for my idiocy, leave well enough alone.

 

[Me XMan]

I'm having very similar problem with this combo. I had RMA the MOBO back to Asus. I don't think it's the video card. I'm crossfiring two 4850's on Foxconn P35A with no problems at all. It's something wrong with Maximus Formula.

 

[AmberClad]

Originally posted by: ddarko
I suppose it could be my Cosair HX620 power supply, which I used on both systems, but the PSU is definitely capable of handling this card plus I can't see how inadequate power could fry the system like this. So it seems to me that it's a seriously defective 4870. I've never had anything close to this ever happen to me before. Frustrating as heck b/c the second computer was working perfectly and I foolishly and stupidly installed the killer 4870 in it. Kicking myself for my idiocy, leave well enough alone.

Odd...I haven't had any issues like that, and I'm using the baby brother version of that PSU (HX520).

 

[Me XMan]

I switched back to old MOBO Foxconn P35A and keep everything the same and crossfiring two 4850's and haven't had any problems at all. It's the Maximus Formula IMO.

 

[ddarko]

I don't think it's the Maximus Formula board, at least it's not ONLY because of the board. There are plenty of folks running the 4870 on a Maximus or Ramage Formula board without trouble. And the fact that my 4870 killed another board with an totally different chipset is convincing evidence to me that at least part of this problem is a very very defective 4870. Maybe it's a combo of a bad 4870 plus older motherboard BIOS. I don't know the BIOS version for my Maximus but it's the original one that came with the board when I got it in Jan 2008. There's been a couple of new BIOS issued since then. And the A8N board also had an old BIOS from 3 years ago.

i found a thread on the Asus Maximus forum started by someone with similar problems, although his board wasn't completely disabled; he was still able to run his board with another video card. Here's the link:

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view...page=1&SLanguage=en-us

That guy's 4870 was a Visiontek, so was mine. Me XMan, was your video card a Visiontek too? I got mine from Newegg, I'm beginning to think Visiontek had a bad batch of 4870s.

edited to add:

Me XMan,

Can you clarify - did you have a problem a 4870 or a 4850? You say your trouble-free experience crossfiring two 4850's on a different board convinces you that the Maximus is at fault but I'm not really sure why trouble-free operation with a 4850 means that the 4870 is not the problem. Personally, I'm having problems with a 4870 and don't know anything about the 4850.

p.s. i'm going to ask the moderators to move this thread to the video card forum. I think it's pretty clear by now the CPU isn't the problem.

 

[ddarko]

Well, the bad news continue. I got a new bios chip for my A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard. I thought it would restore the board but it doesn't. My board won't boot even with the new bios chip. Whatever the 4870 did to this board, it did a pretty thorough job.:frown:

 

[pmv]

Sounds like a bit of a computing nightmare.
Apologies if seeing another post on the thread got your hopes up that someone had posted something useful, but all I have to say is that it seems to me you can't be 100% sure its the vid card, it's still possible its the psu. It could even be that the vid card has a fault that messed up the psu which in turn messed up the motherboard, no? Is there any you can get the psu tested without risking another motherboard?

 

[AzN]

Sounds like a short problem. Something made a contact with something that's not supposed to

 

[Matt2008]

I think I had a similar but not exactly the same problem. I got a Visiontek HD 4870 and Asus Rampage Formula mainboard. After installing the video card and turnning on the computer, the system wont boot. It powers up for 1 secs, then power down, then 1 sec later it powers up again, and the screen is blank.

At first I thought the video card is DOA. So I removed it and put my back Geforce 8800 GTS 512, but the computer wont boot either. Screen is stil blank. I tried to reset cmos and unplug everything and reconnect everything including ram, hdd sound card power connector etc.. But it still didnt boot. I gave up and called it a night

The next morning, I tried to remove the 4 pin cpu power connector and use the 8 pin one instead. Then I press the power button and the system boots up normally. I don't know if its the 4 pin power connector that caused the problem or its the static charge or something but it was strange.

 

[Majic 7]

I've been reading the Rampage thread at XtremeSystems over and over because I just got one. Not running yet, all my parts haven't shown up. Anyway since most everyone there is heavily into overclocking I have seen posts stating that they use the 8 pin as a matter of course. Even the manual I received isn't very clear and makes it sound like you use the 8 pin. I was wrong it seems very clear, "use only an 8-pin EPS+12V power plug for the EATX12V connector".

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Azn
Sounds like a short problem. Something made a contact with something that's not supposed to

The guy has at least two other threads out there...

He has not yet accepted that either he ESD'ed Something, or has a header or something connected wrong.

or as you have said.. he will not strip it down, and root cause correctly one at a time.. it seems to be the Shotgun Approach... asking for help but ignoring advice.

 

[Engraver]

I've had this problem before, on two separate computers. It turned out to be a problem with certain motherboards and higher voltage memory, namely any that required 2.3V. I put in my lower voltage memory and everything worked fine in both cases.

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox

Originally posted by: Azn
Sounds like a short problem. Something made a contact with something that's not supposed to

The guy has at least two other threads out there...

He has not yet accepted that either he ESD'ed Something, or has a header or something connected wrong.

or as you have said.. he will not strip it down, and root cause correctly one at a time.. it seems to be the Shotgun Approach... asking for help but ignoring advice.

Mr. Fox,

Your post is insulting and uncalled for. I am not "ignoring advice"; I'm grateful for all the advice I've gotten, tried them and so far, they haven't been successful. A "Shotgun Approach"? Let see what I've done:

1. Cleared and reset CMOS
2. Bought and swapped out a new CPU
3. Swapped out the PSU
4. Removed memory, installed gradually
5. Tried 2 other video cards - 8800GT, 1900XT - in both PCI-E slots
6. Tried to install 4870 in second computer, which ended up disabled
7. Repeated steps 1-5 on newly disabled second motherboard
8. Ordered and installed new BIOS chip on second motherboard
9. RMA'ed first motherboard

How much more systematic and methodical do I have to be to satisfy you? Go to engineering school and get a degree? Start heating up sand so I can make my own silicon chips?

I had started two threads b/c I wasn't sure what was causing my problem: a CPU failure or a motherboard problem. I didn't even think it was my video card at first, not until I put it into a second mobo and that mobo got disabled too. I don't update the thread in the mobo forum anymore precisely b/c I don't want to duplicate threads and I get criticized for that? I asked the mods to move this thread, which started in the CPU forum, into the video card forum b/c I had pretty much ruled out the CPU as the cause. The mods graciously did so. All of this is clear if you had actually read this entire thread - I have a post from a couple days ago where I even say I'm going to ask the mods to move this thread from CPU to video. Instead, you pop in at the end of this thread, make incorrect assumptions and then sneer "oh look he started another thread." WRONG.

I provide updates b/c it seems like at least a couple ppl out there - not everyone but enough - with the combo of 4870/4850 and Maximus/Rampage Formula seem to have had similar problems. Already since the thread was moved to the video card forum, at least one new person has posted who had a similar experience. Do I think I'm infallible and couldn't have accidentally shorted out my boards? No. Do I think it's likely? No. Why? Because several people with similar setups have posted similar experiences, not just here on Anandtech but also in Asus's own support forums.

The Maximus Formula has been sent into Asus for RMA so I'm waiting on that, there's nothing more I can do. The A8N-SLI Deluxe is 3+ years old and isn't worth the cost of repair so while I wait for a new/repaired Maximus, I'm trying to restore the A8N on my own. What the frak is your problem with any of this? No one is forcing you to read this. Geez, you don't want to read about my trouble, then don't read this thread!

And if I sound pissed, that's b/c I am, to wake up and read your ill-informed condescension. I have two dead computers and you come along and cop a smug and arrogant "this guy isn't listening" attitude, which is hilarious b/c the only guy I see who isn't listening/reading is you. While a ton of other forum members have offered encouragement, suggestions and advice, you choose to take a cheap shot at me. Thanks for your valuable contribution to this thread. You da man, aren't ya?

 

[ddarko]

Originally posted by: Matt2008
I think I had a similar but not exactly the same problem. I got a Visiontek HD 4870 and Asus Rampage Formula mainboard. After installing the video card and turnning on the computer, the system wont boot. It powers up for 1 secs, then power down, then 1 sec later it powers up again, and the screen is blank.

At first I thought the video card is DOA. So I removed it and put my back Geforce 8800 GTS 512, but the computer wont boot either. Screen is stil blank. I tried to reset cmos and unplug everything and reconnect everything including ram, hdd sound card power connector etc.. But it still didnt boot. I gave up and called it a night

The next morning, I tried to remove the 4 pin cpu power connector and use the 8 pin one instead. Then I press the power button and the system boots up normally. I don't know if its the 4 pin power connector that caused the problem or its the static charge or something but it was strange.

Hey Matt2008,

Your experience almost completely mirrors mine. I had done the same thing, using 4-pin instead of 8-pin. Unfortunately, I'm not as lucky as you b/c using the 8-pin didn't fix my problem. Oh well...