Democratic Debate

[MongGrel]

I've been trying harder lately to do more than troll. I'll do what I can to keep it going.

Would be a nice change of pace.

I actually agree with some things you say a lot of the time, but is hard to agree when you start shouting insults at everyone in sight, and probably a few other things.

:hmm:

 

[Exophase]

Would be a nice change of pace.

I actually agree with some things you say a lot of the time, but is hard to agree when you start shouting insults at everyone in sight, and probably a few other things.

That's how I feel about a lot of the posters here. Says things I agree with but so many posts degrade into this back and forth insult fest.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally Posted by BoberFett
I've been trying harder lately to do more than troll. I'll do what I can to keep it going.

Would be a nice change of pace.

I actually agree with some things you say a lot of the time, but is hard to agree when you start shouting insults at everyone in sight, and probably a few other things.

:hmm:

That's how I feel about a lot of the posters here. Says things I agree with but so many posts degrade into this back and forth insult fest.

did we just have a intervention? :thumbsup:

 

[chipwitch]

You're new, you might want to be a bit wary at this point.

But you going to form your own opinions over time.

Well, he DID admit he had been aspiring to something greater than "troll" lately. I try to find conservatives to like.

 

[Blackjack200]

I feel like I've awoken in some strange land. I've quite sincerely agreed 100% with the past 15+ posts of yours I have read. You speak for me more articulately than I feel I can accomplish, and so I sit back and eat popcorn and live vicariously through you.

Know this. Keep up the good fight.

Pretty sure you've been there for a while.

I don't think I've heard someone say it now until today so it's hard to really say. You were using it in the context of people dismissing her during Bill's presidency. From the context of how it's being said now I would think that it was meant to refer to Bill and Hillary as a politically unified front.

When Bill Clinton ran for president (and again I was just a little kid then and wasn't exposed to this stuff so this is based on what I read today) it was with a "two for one" platform, where he put forth Hillary as a part of what people are voting for despite not actually voting for her.

If that applied then should it apply now that Hillary's running? Hillary has not been using such a campaign and I can see some good (and bad) reasons why she wouldn't, but that doesn't mean there's no element of it.

It's how the term was used in the past. Now they also use Hilda-beast and Shillary. There was nothing in his post that suggested he was referring to Bill's political legacy. If you simply want to connect Hillary to Bill's presidency, you can talk about the Clinton dynasty or something like that.

So you don't actually care and don't want to talk about something but you want me to absorb and contemplate what you're saying? Tell me if I'm taking this the wrong way because that sounds pretty arrogant.

I don't think it's really worthy of discussion. Someone can say 'well, I meant this or that' and how can you really argue about what they meant? I'm not saying I'm above it, I just don't see where it gets you.

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny? Or sad? Somebody made a good post, and some jackass Democrat responds "Foxworthy". You're either 100% in lockstep with the Democrats, or you're Foxworthy. That's just plain stupid, and that's why I think Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.

It was only a "good post" in your mind because it re-affirms all the FUD in a very Foxworthy way.

The one thing that everybody should believe is the record. More than once in the debate Hillary asked people to look at the record. That more than anything else tells us what she's likely to do in the future.

 

[MongGrel]

did we just have a intervention? :thumbsup:

Bit of a scary thought isn't it.

Next thing you know, people wouldn't wouldn't be rabidly partisan and the government might start to work again.



But that would take a lot of smacking people people in office over the head with a 2x4.

 

[Jhhnn]

If it came down to Trump and Sanders...I'd vote for Sanders.
If it came down to Trump and Clinton...I'd vote for Trump.

Here's what Bernie said in the debate-

"And as I have said many times, you know, sometimes in these campaigns, things get a little bit out of hand. I happen to respect the secretary very much, I hope it's mutual. And on our worst days, I think it is fair to say we are 100 times better than any Republican candidate."

Bernie has no use for Trump. Why anybody who likes & respects Bernie would think any different is beyond my comprehension.

 

[BoberFett]

It was only a "good post" in your mind because it re-affirms all the FUD in a very Foxworthy way.

The one thing that everybody should believe is the record. More than once in the debate Hillary asked people to look at the record. That more than anything else tells us what she's likely to do in the future.

Good idea.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/wha...o_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

http://www.thenation.com/article/left-ought-worry-about-hillary-clinton-hawk-and-militarist-2016/

http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/1...pologetically-hawkish-record-faces-2016-test/

You're exactly the kind of Democrat I'm talking about.

 

[Jhhnn]

Good idea.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/wha...o_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

http://www.thenation.com/article/left-ought-worry-about-hillary-clinton-hawk-and-militarist-2016/

http://swampland.time.com/2014/01/1...pologetically-hawkish-record-faces-2016-test/

You're exactly the kind of Democrat I'm talking about.

There's some mighty fine spin in all of that, no doubt.

References to her Iraq vote are usually dishonest, missing the nuance you referenced earlier. The Bushistas spread FUD outrageously in the wake of 9/11 & timed the vote perfectly for the midterms, sold Congress on the idea that they'd let inspections run their course first. Hillary referenced that in her speech at the time. She said she took the President at his word. That was a mistake. He lied, plain & simple.

She may well be more hawkish on foreign policy than I'd like but a lot of what's in your references is the sound of axes being ground through interpretation of second hand accounts & favorable assertions by the author. From the Nation piece-

Not only did the war in Libya go far to inflame Russian nationalism, it also created a terrible vacuum in North Africa, toppling Muammar Qaddafi but leaving hundreds of armed militias in his stead, creating chaos and anarchy. (And, because the war against Qaddafi followed the Libyan leader’s decision to forgo a nuclear arms program, it also sent the wrong message to Iran, namely, give up your nuclear program and we’ll attack you anyway.)

Inflame Russian nationalism? Hundreds of militias? Wrong message to Iran? Whaaa?

She supports the Iran deal & all it entails so the tough talk doesn't matter if Iran holds up their end of it. They've been hot on it & arrived at implementation day much earlier than anticipated.

She's too tight with the Israelis to suit me but I realize that's a minority position as is Obama's, unfortunately.

Foreign policy isn't the only thing that matters, anyway. I think it's reasonable to say that she'll defend & attempt to extend the rights & programs that Dems hold near & dear. That's based on the record. I think she's very much concerned about even greater financial reform. The rest of it should go without saying at this point.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Bernie has no use for Trump. Why anybody who likes & respects Bernie would think any different is beyond my comprehension.

I imagine that many things are beyond your comprehension. Depends on which issues one considers most important.

 

[ivwshane]

I imagine that many things are beyond your comprehension. Depends on which issues one considers most important.

How about enlightening us with what you feel bernie supporters deem important that they would vote for trump?

 

[mysticjbyrd]

How about enlightening us with what you feel bernie supporters deem important that they would vote for trump?

Anti establishment persona, whether this is true or not is highly questionable. We know Hillary will side with the corporations 100%, but is there is some doubt as to what Trump would do. Some consider that a gamble worth taking.

Bernie and Trump have talked about money in politics

Bernie and Trump have talked about taking a backseat in the middle east.

There's also the whole dnc rigging the election at every chance. If you vote Hillary, you are telling them they can pick the candidate, when a better alternative exist.

Including the time Hillary's team, was stealing Bernie's data, and then tried to blame him. Everyone saw right through it, and suddenly they didn't want to carry out the investigation anymore.

Then you have the very very convenient media blackout if Bernie. A person that's easily in the top three candidates running for president, and he gets less air time than the pepperidge farm guy. What's more, when he does get air time he is either asked loaded questions or asked to comment on Hillary.


Some people are so sick or the corruption that they just don't care. They would vote for trump on the off chance he isn't corrupt, at the expense of everything else.

I would vote for cancer, before I voted Hillary.

 

[ivwshane]

So your expectation is that the guy who is precisely who bernie complains about that gets all the tax breaks and where all the wealth goes to, who lobbies government to favor benefits, who outsources jobs and who doesn't pay their employees well, will be the guy they turn to. They think trump who has benefited greatly from the current system and has made no indication of changing anything and has, in fact, put forth a tax plan that would be an even bigger give away than the Bush tax cuts, he is going to be the man they turn to, to vent their frustration with the establishment?

That certainly is an interesting theory and you might be right, the American people are pretty stupid.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I don't think the majority will go with Trump, but I am betting some will.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think the majority will go with Trump, but I am betting some will.

Of course.

 

[compuwiz1]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...ng-Wall-Street-Has-Influenced-Me-On-OK-I-Will

This surprises me, coming from Dailykos. I think Hillary's going to drop off the map pretty soon. More reasons why she should never become President. I can respect someone who is a fan of Bernie Sanders, but for the life of me cannot believe there are people out there who will vote for her. A FaceBook post had a lot of comments and many people who didn't care and would vote for her just because she's a woman. Some of us clearly see who she works for and it's not gonna be us.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

So your expectation is that the guy who is precisely who bernie complains about that gets all the tax breaks and where all the wealth goes to, who lobbies government to favor benefits, who outsources jobs and who doesn't pay their employees well, will be the guy they turn to. They think trump who has benefited greatly from the current system and has made no indication of changing anything and has, in fact, put forth a tax plan that would be an even bigger give away than the Bush tax cuts, he is going to be the man they turn to, to vent their frustration with the establishment?

That certainly is an interesting theory and you might be right, the American people are pretty stupid.

I don't think Trump does much out sourcing, not saying he wouldn't but its tough in his core industry.
I guess his ties being made in China is out sourced in a way.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...ng-Wall-Street-Has-Influenced-Me-On-OK-I-Will

This surprises me, coming from Dailykos. I think Hillary's going to drop off the map pretty soon. More reasons why she should never become President. I can respect someone who is a fan of Bernie Sanders, but for the life of me cannot believe there are people out there who will vote for her. A FaceBook post had a lot of comments and many people who didn't care and would vote for her just because she's a woman. Some of us clearly see who she works for and it's not gonna be us.

Daily Kos? This is your source for non partisan news that you were eluding to earlier?

 

[chipwitch]

I would vote for cancer, before I voted Hillary.

You may get that opportunity. I understand "cancer" is one of the multitude bidding for the Republican nomination.

 

[chipwitch]

I can respect someone who is a fan of Bernie Sanders, but for the life of me cannot believe there are people out there who will vote for her.

Even a sharp stick in the eye is preferred over a bullet to the brain...

Look, except for Barack Obama, the majority of the electorate in the past 28 years has cast their votes against a candidate, not for one. Hillary is far and again better than the top 5 running on the Republican ticket.

 

[compuwiz1]

Daily Kos? This is your source for non partisan news that you were eluding to earlier?

I don't read the Dailykos, except it showed up in my news feed on FB, via one of my liberal friends I grew up with. It just seemed odd that a left leaning publication is down on Hillary.

 

[dank69]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...ng-Wall-Street-Has-Influenced-Me-On-OK-I-Will

This surprises me, coming from Dailykos. I think Hillary's going to drop off the map pretty soon. More reasons why she should never become President. I can respect someone who is a fan of Bernie Sanders, but for the life of me cannot believe there are people out there who will vote for her. A FaceBook post had a lot of comments and many people who didn't care and would vote for her just because she's a woman. Some of us clearly see who she works for and it's not gonna be us.

See now this is the shit I can't forgive. Bernie Sanders it is.

 

[compuwiz1]

See now this is the shit I can't forgive. Bernie Sanders it is.

Ya think?

 

[BoberFett]

There's some mighty fine spin in all of that, no doubt.

You're a hack of the highest order.

You know what I like best about you? You're old.