Detroit

[imported_Tomato]

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb
I'm one of the few people who really likes detroit. Not that it doesn't have it's issues, but the city is just so unique in so many compelling ways. Most people drive through now and again for a baseball game, see the empty streets and run down buildings, decide it's a shthole and can't wait to leave.

I've since learned that that is a very narrow and ignorant view of the city. there's so many great places and opportunities you just don't see unless you really start looking. it's kinda like a city hiding in plain sight.

I like the idea of detroit as a city that doesn't need density.

I like seeing the things that the residents have done to create their own environments when everyone else bailed for the burbs and basically told detroit to go fsk itself. (heidlberg project, hammtramack disneyland, UA theater windows, wayne state, cass tech)

I think someone needs to shoot Ilitch. that man alone has done detroit more harm than any other single person.

I think detroit needs to annex the burbs. (NY did it with great results, detroit was unable to and has stagated with the 8mile divide.)

I think it's a raw deal that detroit is 9th in terms of vehicle vandilism rates, yet has the highest insurence rates in the country (it's image is far worse than it really is)

it is NOT the highest crime rate in the country. I've spent plenty of time walking around downtown at 2am with $10,000 worth of recording gear on my back, and never once felt unsafe. For many people I have met, I think they feel unsafe because there's so few white people compared to what they're used to. (detroit is 85% black)

oh, and for you kid rock/eminem arsewipes:

MC5
iggy & the stooges
electronic music (most of it)
motown
john lee hooker

...just to name a few...

Oh yeah, Ilitch is the problem, not Kwame, or Archer, or Coleman Young. :roll:

The high insurance rates are to counteract the fact that no one has insurance. 50% of all cars driving in Detroit are driving without insurance.

The dirty claws of Detroit will continue to spread outwards, as it has for the past 40 years, pushing the average person even further outwards.

as you say from your nice home in rochester hills...

I grew up in Rochester Hills... Adams High School alumni.

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: AmdEmAll
Dubb: are you a DJ? My bro plays at Club Bleu on the weekends sometimes.

not a dj, though I did recordings for a few back in the day. My "side job" (I use quotes because it was getting paid to go to clubs, drink, underage, for free, and meet some real characters) in high school and the early part of college was location recording of live gigs, demo tapes, and music students.

been out of the scene for a couple years though.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Dubb

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb
I'm one of the few people who really likes detroit. Not that it doesn't have it's issues, but the city is just so unique in so many compelling ways. Most people drive through now and again for a baseball game, see the empty streets and run down buildings, decide it's a shthole and can't wait to leave.

I've since learned that that is a very narrow and ignorant view of the city. there's so many great places and opportunities you just don't see unless you really start looking. it's kinda like a city hiding in plain sight.

I like the idea of detroit as a city that doesn't need density.

I like seeing the things that the residents have done to create their own environments when everyone else bailed for the burbs and basically told detroit to go fsk itself. (heidlberg project, hammtramack disneyland, UA theater windows, wayne state, cass tech)

I think someone needs to shoot Ilitch. that man alone has done detroit more harm than any other single person.

I think detroit needs to annex the burbs. (NY did it with great results, detroit was unable to and has stagated with the 8mile divide.)

I think it's a raw deal that detroit is 9th in terms of vehicle vandilism rates, yet has the highest insurence rates in the country (it's image is far worse than it really is)

it is NOT the highest crime rate in the country. I've spent plenty of time walking around downtown at 2am with $10,000 worth of recording gear on my back, and never once felt unsafe. For many people I have met, I think they feel unsafe because there's so few white people compared to what they're used to. (detroit is 85% black)

oh, and for you kid rock/eminem arsewipes:

MC5
iggy & the stooges
electronic music (most of it)
motown
john lee hooker

...just to name a few...

Oh yeah, Ilitch is the problem, not Kwame, or Archer, or Coleman Young. :roll:

The high insurance rates are to counteract the fact that no one has insurance. 50% of all cars driving in Detroit are driving without insurance.

The dirty claws of Detroit will continue to spread outwards, as it has for the past 40 years, pushing the average person even further outwards.

as you say from your nice home in rochester hills...

I get the feeling that is the case...

As I said, detroit is not without its problems, it's obvious that detroit has more that most major cities. There are lots of things to improve. the politicians are a big part of that. sitting on your heinie and looking down your nose at detroit isn't helping any.


I say ilitch is the big criminal becase of what he's let happen to the physical city. do have any idea how much property he owns that he doesn't use, and doesn't protect? he lets them sit, wasting away, waiting for the day he can get out of paying taxes on them, then get the city tear the buildings down for him. detroit looks as wasted as it does in significant part because of ilitch.

Proof?

on second thought... ilitch isn't the problem. your attitude is the problem. which is one of the reasons I say annex the burbs - to make people realize they have a vested interest in the city they happily exploited and forgot about.

I love how you make it sound as if Detroit have been a victim of the suburbs. Detroit was a victim of it's own citizens, the same ones who still live there today. The "race" riots of 1967 weren't race riots, it was a chance for poor people to loot and blame it on racism.

Oh, don't worry, I don't blame you. I live in Flint. I plan on leaving as soon as a frickin' can. I'm just saying your view might be a little skewed.

I went to school in Flint. Kettering University.

 

[thelanx]

I grew up near the Wayne State campus, and am working at the medical campus for the summer. Although now I live in the suburbs, Detroit, and particularly the WSU campus, was the location of many happy childhood memories. I love some parts of Detroit, particularly WSU and the public library area, but some other places are just so run down. If only Detroit had a larger tax base, then the city wouldn't have to leech off of the State and Federal funding so much and would have surplus to develop and improve the city. Those of you blaming the people in the suburbs have a point in that all the richer folks are moving out and taking the tax money with them, but then you would probably do the same thing. The problem is a circular one imo. People move out because the city is so poor and run down, but the city is so poor and run down because they have little tax revenue due to richer people moving out.

 

[iamwiz82]

http://www.freep.com/news/locway/kilp17e_20050517.htm

the tax money that is collected is being stolen from Detroit.

 

[chuckywang]

DEEEEEEEETROIT BAAAAAAAASKETBALL!!!!!!

 

[irwincur]

The dirty claws of Detroit will continue to spread outwards, as it has for the past 40 years, pushing the average person even further outwards.

Hopefully they stop at Lansing.

Just keep your crap away from me in Grand Rapids.



I personally have a love/hate relationship with Detroit. I wish it was nicer (like say Chicago) because it would give me another close destination. However, it is such a dump that I am sure this will never be the case. The thing that really pisses me off is how much money Detroit gets from my taxes - AND IT NEVER MATTERS. I swear, it is the closest thing to a black hole on the planet, every dime that gets thrown in dissapears.

Then on the West side of the state we are stuck holding our balls begging for any scrap that the Detroit monster accidentally missed.

 

[state 08]

NORTH AMERICAN INTERNATIONAL AUTO SHOW!!!!!!

 

[JulesMaximus]

I love that I don't live there.

 

[Cheezeit]

Detroit screwed up. They really need to redo and clean up the city.

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb


I say ilitch is the big criminal becase of what he's let happen to the physical city. do have any idea how much property he owns that he doesn't use, and doesn't protect? he lets them sit, wasting away, waiting for the day he can get out of paying taxes on them, then get the city tear the buildings down for him. detroit looks as wasted as it does in significant part because of ilitch.

Proof?

I did months of research into downtown for my senior thesis. Most of that is not easily linked on the web, however there are two good resources you can check out if you feel like it. One is the online archives of the det. news and freep. The other is the forums at Urbanplanet.org, where many of the posters in the Mi/detroit forum are associated with development, city planning, or architecture, and can provide many insights if you ask (you have to be a member to even view threads though).

just one example though, from my notes, take the UA theater, widely considered to be the "best" of architect C. howard Crane's designs for the United artists film company:

Theater closes in 1971 after a long decline. the DSO uses the space for recordings untill the mid 80s

periodic ground floor shops start and close sporadically until the mid 90s, including a Bank, and later a nightclub called "the currency exchange", which used the bank's vault for a bar.

in 1997 Don Barden purchases the building with the intent to review the space for redevelopment. When progress stalls, Barden gives control of the building to the city, with the expressed condition that it not be sold to the ilitchs. Shortly after, the city sells it to the ilitches. Barden goes to court in an attempt to nulify the sale, however he is unsuccessful (one source said he lost, one said he gave up)

1998: Ilitch leaves the building open and unguarded, and very shortly virtually all of the buildings plasterwork and accessable materials are removed or destroyed by vandals.

currently the building is slightly better sealed, however it is in abysmal condition, with holes in the theater roof (which some believe were caused by vandals throwing heavy materials from the attached office tower) allowing nature to destroy what is left of the theater's interior. Not a single person I found believes there to be a financially feasible way to restore the building anytime in the near future.

there's also the story of the office tower's windows, which is fascinating but not what you asked about.

on second thought... ilitch isn't the problem. your attitude is the problem. which is one of the reasons I say annex the burbs - to make people realize they have a vested interest in the city they happily exploited and forgot about.

I love how you make it sound as if Detroit have been a victim of the suburbs. Detroit was a victim of it's own citizens, the same ones who still live there today. The "race" riots of 1967 weren't race riots, it was a chance for poor people to loot and blame it on racism.

in some ways you're right, detroit is a victim of itself, and in some ways it is a victim of the suburbs. I intended that comment in a "big picture" sense. look at your own attitude. do you ever see detroit prospering if everyone felt as you do? It's a very long and complicated situation, but you are part of the problem. and no amount of blame shifting is going to change that.

yes, there is alot of corruption, and what money is spent on the city is often spent poorly. A few very wealthy businessmen are allowed to get away with a great deal that they shouldn't be.

This is not a good enough reason to give up on detroit.

Compare now to the late 80s - it is much improved since then, and as I've said, there is much, hidden in plain sight, to be excited about. You just have to look.

Regarding the riots: thats another very long and complicated thing, with a long list of causes and circumstances. I will leave it that I think that saying "it was a chance for poor people to loot and blame it on racism." is an incredibly naive and ignorant thing to say. I hate to sound like your mother, but you should know better.

 

[Dubb]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I love that I don't live there.

As I said, the attitude of people like this is as much a problem as the corruption.

Detroit will not rebound fully untill more people are willing to put a little of themselves into the city - and I don't mean money.

wouldn't it be great if we could get people in power in detroit who made great financial decisions and really contributed some forward momentum?

why would anyone want to do that with such a pervasive negative attitude?

 

[Miramonti]

Detroit is a great place unless you're unarmed and unaffiliated.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb
I'm one of the few people who really likes detroit. Not that it doesn't have it's issues, but the city is just so unique in so many compelling ways. Most people drive through now and again for a baseball game, see the empty streets and run down buildings, decide it's a shthole and can't wait to leave.

I've since learned that that is a very narrow and ignorant view of the city. there's so many great places and opportunities you just don't see unless you really start looking. it's kinda like a city hiding in plain sight.

I like the idea of detroit as a city that doesn't need density.

I like seeing the things that the residents have done to create their own environments when everyone else bailed for the burbs and basically told detroit to go fsk itself. (heidlberg project, hammtramack disneyland, UA theater windows, wayne state, cass tech)

I think someone needs to shoot Ilitch. that man alone has done detroit more harm than any other single person.

I think detroit needs to annex the burbs. (NY did it with great results, detroit was unable to and has stagated with the 8mile divide.)

I think it's a raw deal that detroit is 9th in terms of vehicle vandilism rates, yet has the highest insurence rates in the country (it's image is far worse than it really is)

it is NOT the highest crime rate in the country. I've spent plenty of time walking around downtown at 2am with $10,000 worth of recording gear on my back, and never once felt unsafe. For many people I have met, I think they feel unsafe because there's so few white people compared to what they're used to. (detroit is 85% black)

oh, and for you kid rock/eminem arsewipes:

MC5
iggy & the stooges
electronic music (most of it)
motown
john lee hooker

...just to name a few...

Oh yeah, Ilitch is the problem, not Kwame, or Archer, or Coleman Young. :roll:

The high insurance rates are to counteract the fact that no one has insurance. 50% of all cars driving in Detroit are driving without insurance.

The dirty claws of Detroit will continue to spread outwards, as it has for the past 40 years, pushing the average person even further outwards.

as you say from your nice home in rochester hills...

I get the feeling that is the case...

As I said, detroit is not without its problems, it's obvious that detroit has more that most major cities. There are lots of things to improve. the politicians are a big part of that. sitting on your heinie and looking down your nose at detroit isn't helping any.


I say ilitch is the big criminal becase of what he's let happen to the physical city. do have any idea how much property he owns that he doesn't use, and doesn't protect? he lets them sit, wasting away, waiting for the day he can get out of paying taxes on them, then get the city tear the buildings down for him. detroit looks as wasted as it does in significant part because of ilitch.

Proof?

on second thought... ilitch isn't the problem. your attitude is the problem. which is one of the reasons I say annex the burbs - to make people realize they have a vested interest in the city they happily exploited and forgot about.

I love how you make it sound as if Detroit have been a victim of the suburbs. Detroit was a victim of it's own citizens, the same ones who still live there today. The "race" riots of 1967 weren't race riots, it was a chance for poor people to loot and blame it on racism.

Oh, don't worry, I don't blame you. I live in Flint. I plan on leaving as soon as a frickin' can. I'm just saying your view might be a little skewed.

I went to school in Flint. Kettering University.

When? and did you stay around there, or did you venture in to the east side and the north side?

Flint, in a lot of ways is microcosm of detriot, and genesee county a microcosm of the detriot metro area. We even had our own corrupt mayor, that we replaced with a used car sales man that tried to buy my dog off of me. (True story. We live in the same neighborhood. He also drives around in a buick with cop car decals).

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb

Originally posted by: L3p3rM355i4h

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: Dubb
I'm one of the few people who really likes detroit. Not that it doesn't have it's issues, but the city is just so unique in so many compelling ways. Most people drive through now and again for a baseball game, see the empty streets and run down buildings, decide it's a shthole and can't wait to leave.

I've since learned that that is a very narrow and ignorant view of the city. there's so many great places and opportunities you just don't see unless you really start looking. it's kinda like a city hiding in plain sight.

I like the idea of detroit as a city that doesn't need density.

I like seeing the things that the residents have done to create their own environments when everyone else bailed for the burbs and basically told detroit to go fsk itself. (heidlberg project, hammtramack disneyland, UA theater windows, wayne state, cass tech)

I think someone needs to shoot Ilitch. that man alone has done detroit more harm than any other single person.

I think detroit needs to annex the burbs. (NY did it with great results, detroit was unable to and has stagated with the 8mile divide.)

I think it's a raw deal that detroit is 9th in terms of vehicle vandilism rates, yet has the highest insurence rates in the country (it's image is far worse than it really is)

it is NOT the highest crime rate in the country. I've spent plenty of time walking around downtown at 2am with $10,000 worth of recording gear on my back, and never once felt unsafe. For many people I have met, I think they feel unsafe because there's so few white people compared to what they're used to. (detroit is 85% black)

oh, and for you kid rock/eminem arsewipes:

MC5
iggy & the stooges
electronic music (most of it)
motown
john lee hooker

...just to name a few...

Oh yeah, Ilitch is the problem, not Kwame, or Archer, or Coleman Young. :roll:

The high insurance rates are to counteract the fact that no one has insurance. 50% of all cars driving in Detroit are driving without insurance.

The dirty claws of Detroit will continue to spread outwards, as it has for the past 40 years, pushing the average person even further outwards.

as you say from your nice home in rochester hills...

I get the feeling that is the case...

As I said, detroit is not without its problems, it's obvious that detroit has more that most major cities. There are lots of things to improve. the politicians are a big part of that. sitting on your heinie and looking down your nose at detroit isn't helping any.


I say ilitch is the big criminal becase of what he's let happen to the physical city. do have any idea how much property he owns that he doesn't use, and doesn't protect? he lets them sit, wasting away, waiting for the day he can get out of paying taxes on them, then get the city tear the buildings down for him. detroit looks as wasted as it does in significant part because of ilitch.

Proof?

on second thought... ilitch isn't the problem. your attitude is the problem. which is one of the reasons I say annex the burbs - to make people realize they have a vested interest in the city they happily exploited and forgot about.

I love how you make it sound as if Detroit have been a victim of the suburbs. Detroit was a victim of it's own citizens, the same ones who still live there today. The "race" riots of 1967 weren't race riots, it was a chance for poor people to loot and blame it on racism.

Oh, don't worry, I don't blame you. I live in Flint. I plan on leaving as soon as a frickin' can. I'm just saying your view might be a little skewed.

I went to school in Flint. Kettering University.

When? and did you stay around there, or did you venture in to the east side and the north side?

Flint, in a lot of ways is microcosm of detriot, and genesee county a microcosm of the detriot metro area. We even had our own corrupt mayor, that we replaced with a used car sales man that tried to buy my dog off of me. (True story. We live in the same neighborhood. He also drives around in a buick with cop car decals).

I stuck around 3rd and Chevy for most of the time I was there, 2000-2004. I had a lot of friends that grew up in the area, though.

 

[BurnItDwn]

One thing: ROBOCOP!

 

[MainFramed]

Originally posted by: Dubb
I'm one of the few people who really likes detroit. Not that it doesn't have it's issues, but the city is just so unique in so many compelling ways. Most people drive through now and again for a baseball game, see the empty streets and run down buildings, decide it's a shthole and can't wait to leave.

I've since learned that that is a very narrow and ignorant view of the city. there's so many great places and opportunities you just don't see unless you really start looking. it's kinda like a city hiding in plain sight.

I like the idea of detroit as a city that doesn't need density.

I like seeing the things that the residents have done to create their own environments when everyone else bailed for the burbs and basically told detroit to go fsk itself. (heidlberg project, hammtramack disneyland, UA theater windows, wayne state, cass tech)

I think someone needs to shoot Ilitch. that man alone has done detroit more harm than any other single person.

I think detroit needs to annex the burbs. (NY did it with great results, detroit was unable to and has stagated with the 8mile divide.)

I think it's a raw deal that detroit is 9th in terms of vehicle vandilism rates, yet has the highest insurence rates in the country (it's image is far worse than it really is)

it is NOT the highest crime rate in the country. I've spent plenty of time walking around downtown at 2am with $10,000 worth of recording gear on my back, and never once felt unsafe. For many people I have met, I think they feel unsafe because there's so few white people compared to what they're used to. (detroit is 85% black)

oh, and for you kid rock/eminem arsewipes:

MC5
iggy & the stooges
electronic music (most of it)
motown
john lee hooker

...just to name a few...

People said go fvck yourself detroit when walking from work to their car they were getting raped, or they walk out a door and watch their car get hiested right there in front of them. I've worked down here (detroit) now for 3 years, been in and out of the city since i was born. three weeks ago i watched a guy get thrown out an apartment window accross the street, he came running into my building asking for us to call the cops, thing is they wont show for 3 days. i can call em, have many times, they dont show.
walking around town with a backpack on you, you fit in with the rest, most downtown inhabiters have backpacks, thats there most likely only property, their pride and joy, carrying their most sacred possecions. you felt safe? stupid. backpack or not.

btw, illitch has done great things for detroit, detroit is going south from folks like kilpatrick, and its past colmon young, those are people worth shooting.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

it's a shthole

 

[Saint Nick]

i don't care what any one says. detroit is unsafe.

/thread

 

[MainFramed]

cant wait for this feb 5!!!!!!

 

[meltdown75]

I forgot to mention Mexican Town. flaming cheese = teh goodness.

and the BIG HOUSE in Ann Arbor, as well as the golf course they let us tailgate on year after year. living next to Michigan kicks major ass!

 

[GoingUp]

Traffic and Roads are terrible, its expensive and crime ridden... mayor is a complete tool...

Then again I live in the 'burbs, so its not too bad

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I forgot to mention Mexican Town. flaming cheese = teh goodness.

and the BIG HOUSE in Ann Arbor, as well as the golf course they let us tailgate on year after year. living next to Michigan kicks major ass!

Stay off of our goddamned roads your canuck! Your tinted glass and front license plates make me sick!

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I forgot to mention Mexican Town. flaming cheese = teh goodness.

and the BIG HOUSE in Ann Arbor, as well as the golf course they let us tailgate on year after year. living next to Michigan kicks major ass!

Stay off of our goddamned roads your canuck! Your tinted glass and front license plates make me sick!

hey, how'd you know i have tinted windows on my car?! you can keep your wild roads. although, i must admit... i am getting used to driving over there. it's really not that bad unless you hit one of those HUGE potholes. so much construction right now though. ack

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: meltdown75

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: meltdown75
I forgot to mention Mexican Town. flaming cheese = teh goodness.

and the BIG HOUSE in Ann Arbor, as well as the golf course they let us tailgate on year after year. living next to Michigan kicks major ass!

Stay off of our goddamned roads your canuck! Your tinted glass and front license plates make me sick!

hey, how'd you know i have tinted windows on my car?! you can keep your wild roads. although, i must admit... i am getting used to driving over there. it's really not that bad unless you hit one of those HUGE potholes. so much construction right now though. ack

Because all canadians seems to have tinted glass. It must be the 9 months of cold weather that requires it