DIgital Camcorder

[vtohthree]

Hey Guys, don't know if this is the right place to ask(it is video though).. but I'm seeking advice for a new digital camcorder. I've done a little research but I'm no expert and I don't have much experience with such equiptment.
Here's what I do know though...

I want one with a good zoom, at least 20X optial (the more the better), and the rest gets
rather general, good picture quality(I know theres a number of new CCD sensors out there), decent battery life, user friendly, just all around. I don't know the word on what to avoid or what not, even though I read through Consumer Reports magazine exclusive
on digital camcorders... basically looked like Sony's, Panasonic's, and Canon's were all alrite. The target price is around $500-600, but a good bargain never hurts either.

That and I don't have much of a strong argument between choosing a Mini DV or DVD-Ram/R/RW media... They have their pro's and con's, I guess DVD is the way of the future, but then again, those tiny DVD's don't have much capacity(30min standard) and I'm looking for something for my parents. They're definately looking for something with much more capacity. In which Mini DV does have(I know you can change the modes with the DVD quality in order to extend it, but still, MINI DV win's this one)....


....So could some one lead me in a direction?


If this isn't the place, do you guys at least know of any other forums out there that can help?

Thanks a lot.

 

[amdnVuser]

I'd definitely go with MiniDV. Once HDV camcorders become affordable, they'll still be able to use their old media. MiniDVD is just a gimic, and like you said, they can't hold a lot of video. BTW, standard DVD is on the verge of being obsolete with Blu-Ray DVD and HD DVD just around the corner. In terms of brand, Sony, Panasonic, and Canon are usually at the top of the heap. IMO, this Panasonic is a steal considering it has 3 CCD chips, but it only has 10x optical zoom. Will they be filming a lot of stuff from far away distances or something? If the optical zoom matters that much, then this Sony's a steal as well considering the optical zoom, good sized LCD, and lens.

 

[gsellis]

At least 20x? You shooting wildlife? That is somewhere in the realm of 600mm equivalent or more. You MUST have a tripod with that! Get a Bogen/Manfrotto or such from someplace like B & H (bhphotovideo). Cheap tripods flex too much when panning and do not pan smoothly - VERY important if you are using all of that zoom.

MiniDV is the way. You can edit it raw without loss until you export to DVD (MPEG conversion). Some of the newer editors can edit MPEG without lossing too much, but they are the highends at $500 up. But get ready for 12-13GB per hour of tape.

The Panny 150/250 are kick butt on color and also toploading (on the tripod, this becomes very important). 15 Lux ratings are not so hot (see camcorderinfo ratings), but then neither are any of the other 'cheap'* cameras. The tape transport has been mentioned in some notes I have seen, but that was related to the 120, which the 150 replaces. It may not really be an issue.

* - I shoot a VX2100 which has minimum noise with still some good color at the range.

 

[fstime]

The sony that records on mini DVDs is great.

Dont know if its for you though.

I'd get somthing that records on Mini DVDs or DVDs.

 

[Dman877]

JVC just introduced the first hard drive-based digital camcorder. I'm hoping other companies follow suite with better stuff. I mean if an iPod can have a 40 gig hard drive, why are camcorders still recording on tapes and disks? Even just a 10 gig drive would give the camcorder what like 6 hours of dvd quality footage?

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Dman877
JVC just introduced the first hard drive-based digital camcorder. I'm hoping other companies follow suite with better stuff. I mean if an iPod can have a 40 gig hard drive, why are camcorders still recording on tapes and disks? Even just a 10 gig drive would give the camcorder what like 6 hours of dvd quality footage?

10GB would be about 50 minutes of DV or 25 minutes of HDPro. HDV as Sony and JVC do would be about 50 minutes (MPEG HD).

 

[vtohthree]

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback. I've been looking at some Panasonics more closely, I have a question though. Why is it that less expensive models have higher zoom power then then more expensive models?

For instance, the panasonic mini DVD VDR-M53 VS. VDR-M75. $200 difference, only the cheaper one has a 24X optical zoom rather than a 10X.

This is also applies for the PV-GS35 vs. PV-GS65. Although I'm assuming the 3ccd sensors compensate for the extra pricing with less zoom.

This camera will basically be used for a number of things, from vacationing to family gatherings, and heck I may borrow it to practise video editing and what not.

So maybe I don't need at least a 20X optical, but from experience with my 7.5X zoom on my digital camera, I would believe I would need a little more than 10X. Just nice to have, it may not be capturing wild life from a distance(say a family of bears in the mountains, lol) but for those grand canon view shots, that and it seems like the rest of the competition for a decent camera in the 5-$600 price range have around there to offer as well.

 

[gsellis]

Lens quality will have a lot of say. With a smaller chip, less depth of field AND the lens has to have better optics. A cheap lens will be soft with chromatic abberations (usually a purple fringe on horizontal and vertical lines). An example is that the HDV Zeiss lens on the Sony FX1/Z1U are getting beat up right now for such an issue.

A great feature of the 150/65/250 Panasonics is the weight. Less than 1 lb! Great for travel and fit in the palm. The Canon Optura 60? is about the same.

 

[kini62]

The Panasonic MiniDVs GS65, 150, 250 and 400 are all best in their price range for overall performance- color, sharpness, focus and low light.

No consumer camcorder is great in lowlight, but some are better than others and in general the 3CCD camcorders as listed above outperform similar priced single CCD machines.

I researched the same thing for about a month and ended up going for the GS65. The price was really good and I don't need widescreen. So for aobut the same price as the Sony I was looking at (the HC90) I got my camcorder and a new Fuji Z1 5MP credit card sized pocket cam.

I couldn't see spending a lot on a camcorder that I use to take video of my 2 young children in the house and other family stuff. I'm not going to be making films.

Also, I feel that camcorders are designed to be disposable, good for about 2 years worth od moderate use, then they quit and you throw them away and get a new one. They're never worth fixing.

Anyway, the GS65 <$500 or the GS150 about $700 are both good deals.

 

[m21s]

Wait until Sony releases there High Definition Camcorders in a couple months...thats the way to go!
Around 1500.00 if you can spend it, but well worth it!

 

[vtohthree]

Thanks everyone, the decision is getting more precise now. I will look at panasonics.
However, I do have a quick question to gsellis(you have been very informative, thank you btw) out of curiosity, but do you personally own any of the panasonic models?
If so, how's the battery life?

And, I do have a question about the GS65 for kini62, is the zoom sufficient enough?

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: vtohthree
Thanks everyone, the decision is getting more precise now. I will look at panasonics.
However, I do have a quick question to gsellis(you have been very informative, thank you btw) out of curiosity, but do you personally own any of the panasonic models?
If so, how's the battery life?

And, I do have a question about the GS65 for kini62, is the zoom sufficient enough?

No, I do not own one. I am trying to figure out if I should buy a 250/400 or wait for grander things. My priorities currently are 1) drives and batteries for my Direct to Disc unit, 2) a laptop for my wife AND for editing, 3) A steady rig for my Glidecam, 4) a waterhousing, 5) a new camera. The battery life should be similar to kini62's, so kini62, your experience? Also note that almost every camera does have the option for bigger batteries, but they do add weight.

I have a need for a second camera, but I can rent for a weekend for $250 (wish I lived in LAX/NYC as it is about half that). When it comes time to buy a camera, it may be a GS400, a Sony FX1, Z1U, or A1U, a Canon XL2, or ? Still not sure where we are going as a business. BUT, the advantage of a second cam being a 400 or 250 is going somewhere where I do not have to shoot like I need to earn my keep from the final product. The 250 is about twice as big as my camera's battery and I think weights the same. I could actually care stuff in my backpack!

 

[vtohthree]

Yeah I decided to get the GS-150, about $100 more but it comes with leica lens and a few extra features, including software and what not. Don't know if it will be worth it, but I've heard a lot about leica from old schoolers. I guess the 10X zoom with the 700X digital will have to do. I have never witnessed such high digital zoom on a camcorder before (only a digital camera with 3-4x zoom) so I don't know how much it will distort the quality but I would assume it's acceptable.