Disturbing information about new cars

[cavemanmoron]

yet another reason to own older vehicles.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

I've know about these things since I saw them pull the info off a Yukon Denali on CSI. I think they're more useful than they are an "invasion of privacy", it's not like the cops have an uplink that lets them pull the info off of it whenever they please; it's for investigative purposes only.

 

[Insane3D]

Originally posted by: mugs

Whether or not it has been calibrated is an irrelevant question, and it really isn't an apples to orange comparison if you think about it. The Event Data Recorder just records data that comes to it from other sources, what calibration would be necessary to do that? Why would the EDR record anything OTHER than what the speedometer says? Would it make sense for manufacturers to install a SECOND method of determining the speed of the car?

I see you are clearly the expert on everything regarding these EDR's, so it appears you are correct, and I should stop asking questions deemed irrelevant by said expert.

I was going to pose some other, likely irrelevant, questions regarding who "owns" the data in these EDR's, and what legal rights you have with said data, but who am I to ask such questions. They are clearly always correct, and if you have anything against them, you just have something to hide.

Sorry about that...

 

[FlashG]

I think the guy that they interviewed said he was going 50-60 and the device reported 114 in the accident that killed 2 girls. Just a slight calibration error right? They still sent him away for 30 years.

I wonder how you can check the accuracy of these devices? Do you get them fixed under the manufacturers warranty or in congress?

 

[funboy6942]

Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small, what they have in your car now, then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Insane3D
I see you are clearly the expert on everything regarding these EDR's, so it appears you are correct, and I should stop asking questions deemed irrelevant by said expert.

I was going to pose some other, likely irrelevant, questions regarding who "owns" the data in these EDR's, and what legal rights you have with said data, but who am I to ask such questions. They are clearly always correct, and if you have anything against them, you just have something to hide.

Sorry about that...

Apology accepted. Questions about who "owns" the data and what legal rights you have are not irrelevant, I never said they were. Quit acting like a child. The question the CNN reporter raised about whether it was "calibrated" was just a reporter trying to spread FUD, and you ate it up. That doesn't mean that these things are infallible, and I never said they were. The lawyer who was defending them made a point of saying they were not.

 

[Pepsi90919]

my car has one and my last one did too.

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And this is the reason why our freedom is handed away.
Say you dont do anything wrong and they harass you any way? Its not the point. the point is I should be able to do what I want when I want how I want without feer of someone looking over my shoulder. Not saying I want to go kill someone, but if I want to speed, go have a drink but not get drunk, what have you I dont want some box in my car recording everything I say, go, or do, for the "good" of the people. Its not for the good of the people. Your told that, and you believe that, but it for the good for the government and higer ups to protect their asses and keep an eye on you at all times. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to the store and by more foil to make more hats.

 

[SmoochyTX]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

That's not how EDRs work. Please read some of the links provided (particularly the NHTSA link) and educate yourself.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And this is the reason why our freedom is handed away.
Say you dont do anything wrong and they harass you any way? Its not the point. the point is I should be able to do what I want when I want how I want without feer of someone looking over my shoulder. Not saying I want to go kill someone, but if I want to speed, go have a drink but not get drunk, what have you I dont want some box in my car recording everything I say, go, or do, for the "good" of the people. Its not for the good of the people. Your told that, and you believe that, but it for the good for the government and higer ups to protect their asses and keep an eye on you at all times. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to the store and by more foil to make more hats.

no one is recording what you say and do. the computer records sensor parameters for the last 10 seconds. so that when you DO speed and drink and drive on a public road, which according to you, you are entitled to do, you are accordingly convicted when you kill someone.

 

[kami]

Since every mph you go over the speed limit, you increase your chance of getting in an accident and killing someone by a significant margin, these are great.

If you want to speed, you pay the price. Good riddance. It's not like this thing is monitoring your phone calls. I am sure there are even cases where this device could have proved someone's innocence.

 

[SmoochyTX]

Here is an example of what the EDRs record:

1 Acceleration, Longitudinal
2 Acceleration, Lateral
3 Acceleration, Normal
4 Delta-V, Longitudinal
5 Delta-V, Lateral
6 Delta-V, Normal
7 Speed, Vehicle indicated
8 Engine Speed (RPM)
9 Engine Throttle (% full)
10 Service Brake (on/off)
11 Vehicle Roll Angle
12 Vehicle Roll Rate
13 Vehicle Pitch Rate
14 Vehicle Yaw Rate
15 ABS activity (engaged / non-engaged)
16 Stability control (on / off / engaged)
17 Steering Input (steering wheel angle)

 

[Ben]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

This is my worst fear. You nailed it exactly. Like it or not, this scenario is where the situation is heading.

And it's true, if you've done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. But you guys can't tell me that you don't break a single law, ever. Maybe you don't speed, but you've never run a red light, rolled a stop sign, made an illegal u-turn, or followed too close? Any of these could lead to an accident, or worst case scenario, a fatality.

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And this is the reason why our freedom is handed away.
Say you dont do anything wrong and they harass you any way? Its not the point. the point is I should be able to do what I want when I want how I want without feer of someone looking over my shoulder. Not saying I want to go kill someone, but if I want to speed, go have a drink but not get drunk, what have you I dont want some box in my car recording everything I say, go, or do, for the "good" of the people. Its not for the good of the people. Your told that, and you believe that, but it for the good for the government and higer ups to protect their asses and keep an eye on you at all times. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to the store and by more foil to make more hats.

no one is recording what you say and do. the computer records sensor parameters for the last 10 seconds. so that when you DO speed and drink and drive on a public road, which according to you, you are entitled to do, you are accordingly convicted when you kill someone.

I didnt say in any way that is what they do NOW, I just showed an example on how it starts and will led to down the road. I fully understand what they are doing right now, but I see the big picture and what they are getting away with now by having them in there doing the little task they perform now. Give it 10 more years, like the toll way boxes you once bought to save you time so you wouldnt have to wait in a line, they will find more uses and way around to abuse what power you have given them. And like the toll way passes they will record you time from booth to booth and send you tickets in the mail for speeding and who knows what else.
Educate yourselves and see further out then the end of your hand on where else this could lead

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And this is the reason why our freedom is handed away.
Say you dont do anything wrong and they harass you any way? Its not the point. the point is I should be able to do what I want when I want how I want without feer of someone looking over my shoulder. Not saying I want to go kill someone, but if I want to speed, go have a drink but not get drunk, what have you I dont want some box in my car recording everything I say, go, or do, for the "good" of the people. Its not for the good of the people. Your told that, and you believe that, but it for the good for the government and higer ups to protect their asses and keep an eye on you at all times. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to the store and by more foil to make more hats.

You're full of crap. You can't do whatever you want whenever you want if you don't want to own up to the consequences. There are laws, if you break them or push them to the limit then you're at fault.

Besides, you're also completely over-exaggerating. 10 seconds before and after crashes is clearly not enough time to record your every illegal driving habit.

 

[LordMorpheus]

Originally posted by: kami
Since every mph you go over the speed limit, you increase your chance of getting in an accident and killing someone by a significant margin, these are great.

If you want to speed, you pay the price. Good riddance. It's not like this thing is monitoring your phone calls. I am sure there are even cases where this device could have proved someone's innocence.

I bet I'm a safer driver than most people on the roads when I'm doing 80 on the freeway. I'll stick to my older cars. Besides, new vehicles have no style.

 

[BabaBooey]

Oh noes wheres my tinfoil hat ...

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Ben

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

This is my worst fear. You nailed it exactly. Like it or not, this scenario is where the situation is heading.

And it's true, if you've done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. But you guys can't tell me that you don't break a single law, ever. Maybe you don't speed, but you've never run a red light, rolled a stop sign, made an illegal u-turn, or followed too close? Any of these could lead to an accident, or worst case scenario, a fatality.

I don't believe that is where this situation is heading, and I think the constitution would prevent that from ever occuring. There is a big difference between subpoenaing evidence when a crime is believe to have occurred and the arbitrary checks funboy42 is describing.

 

[FoBoT]

i missed the part where the govt. is forcing people to buy new cars
and they must have missed me, nobody made me buy a new car with this thing in it, yet

 

[FlashG]

All I want to know is where do I go to get this thing tested. Do I just go in and say please change the oil filter and adjust the EDR? Is Consumer Reports going to rate these things if there is a design defect?

 

[Kevin1211]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: funboy42

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And this is the reason why our freedom is handed away.
Say you dont do anything wrong and they harass you any way? Its not the point. the point is I should be able to do what I want when I want how I want without feer of someone looking over my shoulder. Not saying I want to go kill someone, but if I want to speed, go have a drink but not get drunk, what have you I dont want some box in my car recording everything I say, go, or do, for the "good" of the people. Its not for the good of the people. Your told that, and you believe that, but it for the good for the government and higer ups to protect their asses and keep an eye on you at all times. Now if you will excuse me I have to go to the store and by more foil to make more hats.

You're full of crap. You can't do whatever you want whenever you want if you don't want to own up to the consequences. There are laws, if you break them or push them to the limit then you're at fault.

Besides, you're also completely over-exaggerating. 10 seconds before and after crashes is clearly not enough time to record your every illegal driving habit.

hmm.. if it supposedly only records 10 secs before and after a crash, how does it know when to start recording? In order for it to have it start recording before the crash, it has to be on all the time.. or am i missing something?

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Kevin1211
hmm.. if it supposedly only records 10 secs before and after a crash, how does it know when to start recording? In order for it to have it start recording before the crash, it has to be on all the time.. or am i missing something?

No, you're not missing something - it records on a loop essentially. At any given time it's overwriting old data.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe

Originally posted by: Insane3D

Originally posted by: Greenman
Well, it proved the guy was doing at least three times the speed limit, and he killed two people because of that. Are we to think it's a bad thing because of that?

Proved it eh? I guess those questions about are they ever tested or calibrated just flew right over your head right?

Wouldn't it record the same speed that the speedometer shows? The owner of the car would notice if the speedo showed 100mph when it was going 50.

I don't know here it records the speed from...

From the speed sensor, or in some cases a multitude of sensors, including a transmission output shaft speed sensor and the wheel speed sensors. Generally most cars nowadays will set a code if one of those are malfunctioning, and can compensate in a lot of cases. For example, on late model Chryslers the primary speedo signal is retrieved from a sensor on the differential, or transaxle output shaft. If for some reason that sensor malfunctions, the speedometer will stop working. However, the transmission will continue to shift normally because it's getting it's signal from another sensor, and store those miles in the Transmission Control Module. If you get the regular speed sensor repaired withing 2500 miles, the TCM will automatically update the module in the instrument cluster with the correct miles, as it's been recording them all along.

Most new cars have a multitude of modules that record speed, such as the ABS module, TCM, PCM, BODY and Cluster. Some have more.

There is no calibration needed, unless you change to a nonstandard tire size, in which case a dealer can change it.

They are much more accurate than the old speedometer cable equipped cars - rest assured.

IMO, when some clown is going a hundred and clobbers me with my kids in the car I'll be glad when he gets nailed because of it.

 

[SmoochyTX]

The Use of Event Data Recorders in the Analysis of Real-World Crashes. Interesting article....

Is your "black box" spying on you?. Another interesting read.

It's amazing how paranoid some of you are. Makes me wonder if I would be comfortable with you on the road around myself, my family, or friends. LOL