Disturbing information about new cars

[Linux23]

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small, what they have in your car now, then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

I think you misunderstood what the EDR actually does.

 

[scttgrd]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

So you won't mind if we place several camera's in your home just in case,im sure your not doing anything wrong right?

 

[SmoochyTX]

Originally posted by: Kevin1211
hmm.. if it supposedly only records 10 secs before and after a crash, how does it know when to start recording? In order for it to have it start recording before the crash, it has to be on all the time.. or am i missing something?

"At this juncture it's important to point out what an EDR records, and more importantly what it doesn't. It can't record conversations, for instance, but due to a digital setup that is more like a tape loop that constantly runs, it is able to record the last few seconds before a crash, capturing information regarding vehicle speed, braking severity, the direction of skid, etc, helping analysts reconstruct the crash. "

From here

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Ben

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

This is my worst fear. You nailed it exactly. Like it or not, this scenario is where the situation is heading.

And it's true, if you've done nothing wrong, then you have nothing to worry about. But you guys can't tell me that you don't break a single law, ever. Maybe you don't speed, but you've never run a red light, rolled a stop sign, made an illegal u-turn, or followed too close? Any of these could lead to an accident, or worst case scenario, a fatality.

I don't believe that is where this situation is heading, and I think the constitution would prevent that from ever occuring. There is a big difference between subpoenaing evidence when a crime is believe to have occurred and the arbitrary checks funboy42 is describing.

Oh really, what about my toll booth example. I know Chicago pushed that really hard to get that in place, and then the started forcing people to get them by punishing thoes who insisted on using cash by keep the tools lower if you had a box and increasing the tolls for thoes who used cash. If that wasnt enough they are passing out tickets to thoes they have prof on that went from one booth to another within a specified time limit proving you were speeding. If that is not enough for you how about the fact the City of Chicago is using the info they recieve from the boxes, like where you are going, what time you got off the high way, what time of the season, and selling that information off to companies that track your movements duing holiday times and can tell almost what stores you shoped at?

Am I the only one that looks at the bigger picture here on a lot of these things were told is for our own good that has a hidden agenda and the real truth???? They make more money off the people with the toll boxes selling off the info on where your going, they say its so they can track a thief, but the info sold makes the city millions knowing where your going at all times. And because you refuse to get a tracker box they make up for the funds lost but upping the cash you have to pay. Again saying its for this and that, no its to force the others into getting a box to send out more tickets, get more info, and thoes who dont get one pay more out of pocket till at one point it will be too much. Hell the toll way was in place to pay for the roads and then be gone, get this children just like our taxes, they were in place to pay for something then to be removed. But governemebt got thier grubby hands on too much cash, hand a great time free spending, and now are looking for a way they can keep the money train rolling in without giving up the free spending.

So now they got thier way and got the boxes in the cars and you getting all cozy with the idea and listening to the "reason" why it has to be in there im sure the over all bigger plan will start to come into play and see more changes take place with them, just liek the toll way boxes have been evolving into something they didnt start out to be.

But your all to fvcking brainwashed to see the over all big picture and how the real world actually works, so there is no point in me taking this further.

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: scttgrd

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

So you won't mind if we place several camera's in your home just in case,im sure your not doing anything wrong right?

I was trying to be sarcastic. failed
In addition Why weren't these made optional so I could chose to have one or not. I also don't remember State Farm giving me an EDR discount on my insurance.

 

[scttgrd]

I was trying to be sarcastic. failed
In addition Why weren't these made optional so I could chose to have one or not. I also don't remember State Farm giving me an EDR discount on my insurance.

[/quote]
My apologies, my sarcasm meter is in for service. I would also like to be able to choose this as an option. As well as the on-star service from GM. I dont like the idea of any person, company or government agency being able to track my movements or having any idea where i've been or what the he** im doing. Think im doing something illegal? Get a warrant from a judge. Not one of those Gitmo free pass lock you up and dissapear orders that are being used lately.

 

[OVerLoRDI]

If the accident isn't your fault then its good for you. If you are prone to accidents and screw up while driving sucks for you.

 

[Freejack2]

What if an EDR is misreporting? Say the seat belt sensor is broken. Your seat belt works fine so you plan to get it fixed next time you're in the shop but get in an accident in the interim. A few months later, your insurance company puts you in the risk pool because your EDR says you weren't wearing your seatbelt. Any lacerations from the seatbelt have healed so you have no proof you were wearing your seatbelt.

Say they extend the EDR to record a few days data... people break the law all the time. Have you ever driven even .01 over the speed limit? Of course you have and you've broken the law doing so. A cop can give you a ticket for doing 30.01 in a 30. However cops have some tolerance, around here you have an incredibly small chance of getting ticketed for doing 74 in a 65. Still, do you want the cops to know every time you sped just by looking at your EDR? I doubt it.


Technology that invades our privacy is not always a good thing.

 

[ranmaniac]

It's definitely a tool for the insurance industry, along with your credit score, where you live, your education, and other demographics, to determine your insurance premium.

I have lojack on my car and feel a lot better about it, although I wonder if they can track me even if it's not "activated" through 911/police etc.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I wouldnt buy any of those makes of cars anyway. To plebian.

"Other automakers, mostly German and Korean but some Japanese manufacturers, don't bother with EDRs. Passenger vehicles from BMW, Daewoo, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, Nissan, Porsche, and Volkswagen don't have what NHTSA defines as EDRs, according to the agency's estimates of 2004 and 2005 models."

http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/edr.html

 

[Ben]

That's a pretty substantial list. The lady in the interview acted like most of the new cars have them, but from reading some of the useful links you guys have posted, I think it's somewhere around only 65%.

 

[MercenaryYoureFired]

Originally posted by: Stunt
I'm a huge supporter of privacy rights, but this is for investigative purposes only.

Car accidents are the number one form of death in between the ages of 1 and 45; accountability must be there.

Fixed for clarity?

-MYF

 

[OS]

What I would do is figure out a way to wire in an ECU hard kill switch or something. Wire up a switch that fries the box with high current after you crash. Oops officer, I guess the box was fried during the crash.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Ugh. Go DIAF.

:|

...Unless that was sarcasm, lol.

 

[KMurphy]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I've know about these things since I saw them pull the info off a Yukon Denali on CSI. I think they're more useful than they are an "invasion of privacy", it's not like the cops have an uplink that lets them pull the info off of it whenever they please; it's for investigative purposes only.

Onstar equipped GM's can uplink that information. My Tahoe lets me know when scheduled maintenance is due based on the mileage and usage information uploaded via Onstar through email. They can also remotely shutdown the ignition if the vehicle has been reported stolen. It's just a matter of time before law enforcement has access to that information in real time.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: KMurphy

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
I've know about these things since I saw them pull the info off a Yukon Denali on CSI. I think they're more useful than they are an "invasion of privacy", it's not like the cops have an uplink that lets them pull the info off of it whenever they please; it's for investigative purposes only.

Onstar equipped GM's can uplink that information. My Tahoe lets me know when scheduled maintenance is due based on the mileage and usage information uploaded via Onstar through email. They can also remotely shutdown the ignition if the vehicle has been reported stolen. It's just a matter of time before law enforcement has access to that information in real time.

No, it is not.

 

[KrillBee]

Originally posted by: mercanucaribe
Not sure what the problem is. Why don't you want them to know what you did during the last 10 seconds before the accident? Trying to scam the insurance company? Right to privacy doesn't apply if you just killed some mother of three. Do you oppose cops obtaining search warrants too?

its one thing if this machine is accurate, but if the black box isnt accurate, then it could cause a lot of problems.

 

[TheLonelyPhoenix]

IIRC, this has been around in American cars for awhile and has been used to both clear and convict people. As long as this information is only used for scene reconstruction after accidents and not real-time warrantless tracking of individuals, I'm all for it.

 

[FlashG]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: FlashG

Originally posted by: funboy42
Cop pulls you over.
Officer: "Did you know you were speeding?"
You: "No officer I was not, can I see the radar please that shows I was and how fast?"
Officer: "Sure" Pulls out black box hooks it to your car and show you were speeding, and then shows the other times you were speeding he didnt catch you on radar the box recorded. Not only recorded your speed but your location, time, how many people where in your car, what color the people where, and if you had been to any bar locations durring that night as well.
Officer: "Well it looks as though you done more then sped today. I will have to place you under arrest, impound your car, issue you several tickets including one for DUI on probable cause, and take your drivers license away."
You: "But I will loses my job, my house, my life!"
Officer: "To bad, Thank the Patriot act and for giving up a lot of your personal rights when you bought your new car. Lets go."

It all starts small then will turn into the above. Wont be needing radars anymore. They will just have check point where they just pull you over and hook up to your car or access it over the internet and mail you your tickets. Yea governemnt in brain washing us and making us think a lot of our freedoms are taken away for the good of us all. GO FREEDOM!

But if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Ugh. Go DIAF.

:|
...Unless that was sarcasm, lol.

It was. Feel better now?

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: kami
Since every mph you go over the speed limit, you increase your chance of getting in an accident and killing someone by a significant margin, these are great.

That's bullshit.

What if the speed limit used to be a "safe" 45 mph, but then they rezoned the area to be 25 mph? Does that mean if you went the original speed limit that you're greatly increasing your chance of killing someone?

Also, for a while back in the 90's, Montana had no daytime speed limit. The safety-nazis complained that the sky was falling, and that accident rates would go through the roof since people would be driving the speed at which they felt safe, instead of the government telling them how fast to go. The accident rates did not go up at all.

 

[91TTZ]

I think the current trend is scary. People are no longer concerned about their freedom in the country. They'll see the government taking away someone else's rights, but since it's not something that personally affects them, they don't resist. That is selfish behavior. I'm opposed to the government taking away anyone's rights, even if it doesn't affect me personally. I'm against the very principle of it. This goes far beyond this particular situation.

I know that this is about cars, but the principle is what matters. When I see the government trying to ban guns, I see people saying that it's ok since they don't own guns. When the government tries to crack down on the free press, people are ok with it since they're not a member of the press and they didn't agree with that the press was saying at the time. When the government brands someone a "terrorist" and strips away their right to a trial, people are ok with it since they're not being branded a terrorist, yet.

There's a little story that this reminds me of.

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. . . . Then they came for me, and by that time, nobody was left to speak up"

 

[Fritzo]

Not sure what the problem is either. If there's a lack of physical evidence, and the car recorded things that can be used as proof, great! Not like it's recording where you're going or what you're doing. It's probably recording things like speed and status of the cars systems.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
Here is an example of what the EDRs record:

1 Acceleration, Longitudinal
2 Acceleration, Lateral
3 Acceleration, Normal
4 Delta-V, Longitudinal
5 Delta-V, Lateral
6 Delta-V, Normal
7 Speed, Vehicle indicated
8 Engine Speed (RPM)
9 Engine Throttle (% full)
10 Service Brake (on/off)
11 Vehicle Roll Angle
12 Vehicle Roll Rate
13 Vehicle Pitch Rate
14 Vehicle Yaw Rate
15 ABS activity (engaged / non-engaged)
16 Stability control (on / off / engaged)
17 Steering Input (steering wheel angle)

yea, its not like there is a cockpit voice recorder, and a camera recording your last moments...

all it is doing, is recording for X seconds, and then rewriting that data. thus, if you were to get pulled over by a cop, just drive at the speed limit for an additional minute, and you will be fine... and plus, cops will NOT have this data available to them. the data is owned by the owner of the vehicle, and thus can only be accessed for insurance purposes, and to fix the vehicle.

some of you people really need tinfoil hats.

 

[91TTZ]

I think some valid questions to ask are:

1. If your data is taken by the police, will you be given the data from your own car?

2. If someone hits you and you'd like to see their data, will you be able to?

3. If a police officer is involved in a crash, they'll obviously take the other person's data. Will that person be able to collect the police officer's data?

4. If the police charge you with a crime, can you present that data to use in your defense?

I'm willing to bet that this information will only be used when it suits the police. If they hit you, I bet that they'll claim that the recorder wasn't working, just like they do with the in-car video tapes when they make a mistake. It always is mysteriously "out of order", or "lost".

 

[Furyline]

zomg, my car has electronic components in it? and they communicate with each other? and these communications can easily be saved? oh noes big brother!!!!!!!!!111