DOES ATLANTIS EXIST?!

[kami]

<< was watching Discovery Channel yesterday. Yes, I was that bored. >>


What's wrong w/ watching Discovery? That's like my favorite channel!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Get over yourself Lirion!

Nobody said anything about aliens but you.

As for the Washington DC thing - really? I'd never heard that. You mean that with advanced computer modeling and research they match up EXACTLY (angle, magnitude, position) with a constellation? With less than a .01% variance (which is the variance on the egyption architecture)? And at what time, since celestial position changes over time?

I think what you're saying is that DC bears a resemblence to a stellar layout, although maybe I'm wrong, if you can point me to some research I'd love to read up on it.

What the Egyptologists have found is FAR more precise.

 

[Elledan]

<< Well, the Egyptian Pyramids are tombs. The American "pyramids" are temples. People are burried in the Egyptian Pyramids. People were killed on the American "pyramids". >>

So far there's no evidence that those Egyptian pyramids were actually used as tombs. No mummies were found in them, nor treasures, nor anything else. Just empty rooms.
Not all of those pyramids in America were used for sacrifices. Most were used for other, non-violent rituals.

Although I agree that those American pyramids very little resemble the Egyptian pyramids, I would like to point out that it's pretty amazing that those structures were all build around the same time, using similar knowledge.

On a sidenote, the old Egyptians have crossed the ocean between Africa and America. The evidence for this can be found in Egyptian mummies, on and in which the remains of plants were found which only existed in America.

 

[Wallydraigle]

About the swan, it's in a book by James Randi, I forget the title. And the subject of aliens building the pyramids was brought up earlier. In another thread which you are apparently ignorant of, Elledan said outright that he believed the Egyptians had extraterrestrial help in their building projects.

All I have done here is provide a little real info about the Pyramids. Are you disputing any of the info I posted? If so please refute it, but don't accuse me of being full of myself because it's not the case.

 

[Elledan]

<< In another thread which you are apparently ignorant of, Elledan said outright that he believed the Egyptians had extraterrestrial help in their building projects. >>

Your statement is incorrect. I only mentioned it as one of the possibilities through which the Egyptians could have gained such sophisticated technologies.

 

[Wallydraigle]

But there is evidence that the Pyramids were tombs. They contain burrial chambers just like other tombs that mummies where found in. In some cases inscriptions and wall paintings designate them as such. The fact that there are no bodies is not surprising and even expected. There was a huge problem with grave robbery in ancient Egypt and it continues up to today. It was common knowledge that there were treasures burried with the kings and robbers took it.

 

[Elledan]

<< But there is evidence that the Pyramids were tombs. They contain burrial chambers just like other tombs that mummies where found in. In some cases inscriptions and wall paintings designate them as such. The fact that there are no bodies is not surprising and even expected. There was a huge problem with grave robbery in ancient Egypt and it continues up to today. It was common knowledge that there were treasures burried with the kings and robbers took it. >>

But fact is that there are no signs that those pyramids were ever used as tombs.

Why so, you might ask: why were those pyramids build if they were not used as tombs?
Answer is that we don't know yet. Actually, we know nearly nothing about those pyramids and the sphinx.

Another interesting fact is that we still have no clue how those Egyptians managed to create vases from diorite, which is even harder than granite. They made those vases out of a single piece of diorite, something we can not accomplish. They [the old Egyptians] appeared not to care much about those vases and even smashed them during rituals into pieces. This all leads to the conclusion that it was relatively easy for them to create new diorite vases.

[edit]: regarding those tombs: if you've seen the tombs in the Valley of the Kings, you'll have noticed that they've colorful decorations on the walls, ceilings, everywhere. Then look at the pyramids, or rather said, inside the pyramids. The walls and ceilings are mostly barren. Very few decorations can be found on them.

As for the mummies, as can be seen in tombs in the Valley of the Kings, the mummies were left behind, only the valuable items (jewels) were removed from the mummies, but further left untouched. So where are those mummies?

 

[Wallydraigle]

There sure are a surprising amount of books full of info about the Pyramids if we really know nothing about them. I guess they lied when the Egyptians wrote who was burried in there eh? Pyramids evolved from mastabas. This is not disputed in least. The architect Imhotep put several mastabas on top each other to make the first Pyramid. You can look at them and see the evolution. Mastabas are known to have been used as tombs because there are bodies in them. The Pyramids, which are just really big mastabas, have tunnels and chambers just like mastabas in them. Hmm... what were they used for? The link outlines it for you. It's from the Smithsonian.Link

 

[ShotgunSteven]

<< So far there's no evidence that those Egyptian pyramids were actually used as tombs. No mummies were found in them, nor treasures, nor anything else. Just empty rooms. >>



Correct, the Pharaoh's were buried in the Valley Of The Kings.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

BTW, Atlanta DOES exist. They held the Olympics there once.

 

[Wallydraigle]

The mummies were not always left in place. And later they were even injested as part of a potion called mumia. That;s why we call them mummies you know. That would involve the removal of the remains.

 

[Wallydraigle]

Not all the pharohs were burried in the mass grave called the Valley of the Kings. Many wanted their name as well as their body to last for eternity, and that's why they made the huge tombs for themselves. The Valley of the Kings was subject to landslides and grave robbers ran rampant there. In fact a landslide saved King "Tuts" tomb from grave robbers. But anyway it was a decaying memorial and that's not how some of Pharohs wanted to be remembered... or not remembered.

 

[Elledan]

<< The Pyramids, which are just really big mastabas, have tunnels and chambers just like mastabas in them. Hmm... what were they used for? >>



From the link you provided:



<< As it became clear that the pyramids did not provide protection for the mummified bodies of the kings but were obvious targets for grave robbers, later kings were buried in hidden tombs cut into rock cliffs.. >>



Makes sense.

 

[Elledan]

<< The mummies were not always left in place. And later they were even injested as part of a potion called mumia. That;s why we call them mummies you know. That would involve the removal of the remains. >>

The mummies were only used for such potions (and fuel, BTW) after Europe gained attention for the ancient Egyptian culture. Countless tombs have been found which were robbed empty, but with the mummie still in its (stripped) coffin.

 

[Presence]

Good stuff guys...interesting read. Definetly making my shift at work going by faster.

 

[Warblad13]

sure


from, ME

 

[NeoV]

I don't want to get into the whole discussion about Egypt vs American pyramids, but it does seem likely that there was some sort of "Atlantis", a very advanced city/civilization that is either undiscovered or has been mis-identified...there are too many references about it that are very similar for it to be just a myth...as far as it having anything to do with the bermuda triangle or UFO's...ummm no...but it is very likely there is a city that was destroyed by a volcano/earthquake that we have yet to discover.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Elleden, I have seen you get into these arguments in favor of crock-science explanations before, but this is pretty ridiculous. There is no conspiracy theory behind the Pyramids, the information being provided by Lirion is exactly correct.

There are even several Pyramids which collapsed and had to be abandoned because they were not built with the correct slope.... this would show that Egyptian architecture evolved and developed and was not some secret formula handed down to them by a superior civilization.. several men from England even did a recent demo where they moved a pyramid sized stone with nothing but a few sticks, demonstrating that it wouldn't take levitation or other ridiculous explanations to make the construction possible.

As to the comments about the steller positions of the pyramids, although it's not impossible (The Egyptions did have knowledge of astronomy) it is far more likely that it is coincidence... there are lots of coincidences like that in a galaxy this large.

The thing that is funny to me about those Discovery and TLC shows is that they always manage to round up the same group of crackpots to talk about all the things that don't add up... you will see the same "Expert" talking about atlantis, egyptology and the mysteries of alien abduction... it's pretty pathetic...

 

[Cyberian]

Didn't the whole Atlantis story begin with some writings by Plato in Greece around 400-300BC?

 

[Wallydraigle]

As we know it today, yes, but he got the myth from travelers from Egypt. It is a very old and archtypical story. Back to the original topic, yes i do believe there was a culture that the Atlantis myth comes from. Personally I believe that Atlantis was on Thera, an island in the Mediterranean that was destroyed by a volcano. It was a Minoan culture and was quite advanced for its time. There is a kernel of truth in most all legends. But the story that grows form that kernel can become quite a tall tale.

 

[Wallydraigle]

Oh, and this site tells exactly how to make a vase like the ones you described. Turns out the Chinese were making similar vases out of jade which is both harder and more difficult to work because of fracture points than diorite, and we know exactly how they did it and still do it today. It only takes time.Stone Vases

 

[Elledan]

<< There are even several Pyramids which collapsed and had to be abandoned because they were not built with the correct slope.... this would show that Egyptian architecture evolved and developed and was not some secret formula handed down to them by a superior civilization.. several men from England even did a recent demo where they moved a pyramid sized stone with nothing but a few sticks, demonstrating that it wouldn't take levitation or other ridiculous explanations to make the construction possible. >>

First of all, I never said anything about the way those pyramids were constructed. We simply don't know yet how they were build.

As for that demo you mentioned, everyone knows that that is possible, but can you tell me how you would build the pyramid with such large stones? Lift them with your bare hands? Push them upwards, using the already finished part to rest them on temporary? A slope is out of the question, if you're wondering. Such a slope for the pyramid of Cheops would have had to be a few kilometers long, or it would have become too steep.



<< As to the comments about the steller positions of the pyramids, although it's not impossible (The Egyptions did have knowledge of astronomy) it is far more likely that it is coincidence... there are lots of coincidences like that in a galaxy this large. >>

Congratulations, you've just made yourself look stupid.

Simply calling those positions 'coincidence' is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. If you're right, then we should have seen some really amazing things in the last 12,500 years. Sorry, but your 'theory' is not holding.



<< The thing that is funny to me about those Discovery and TLC shows is that they always manage to round up the same group of crackpots to talk about all the things that don't add up... you will see the same "Expert" talking about atlantis, egyptology and the mysteries of alien abduction... it's pretty pathetic... >>

Uh uh, and it's pretty stupid that CNN asks only experts on certain topics to give their opinion. Get real.

I agree that some of those 'experts''' opinions and facts are at best 'worthy to be considered', but there are some real experts whose opinions are more worth than your opinion will ever be worth. Just something to think about.

 

[Elledan]

<< Oh, and this site tells exactly how to make a vase like the ones you described. Turns out the Chinese were making similar vases out of jade which is both harder and more difficult to work because of fracture points than diorite, and we know exactly how they did it and still do it today. It only takes time.Stone Vases >>

You forgot one minor detail: the Egyptians managed to do it in a fraction of the time it would take us to do it.

They could shape granite in at about half the time it would cost us to do it. And to come back at diorite, jade vases are easier to make than diorite ones. Proof? In how many countries are still diorite vases being made?

 

[gunf1ghter]

<< Congratulations, you've just made yourself look stupid.

Simply calling those positions 'coincidence' is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. If you're right, then we should have seen some really amazing things in the last 12,500 years. Sorry, but your 'theory' is not holding. >>



Actually I think that you might suffer from a disorder involving a heightened sense of your own intelligence. In fact it's something that you have demonstrated in thread after thread where you are condescending in your dismissal of other people's opinions.

Maybe the reason that you haven't heard of similar relationships is that very few places on earth invite as much investigation, speculation, and free thought as the pyramids... now that the WTC towers have collapsed I'm sure that there will be all kinds of "mythic" relationships discovered that connect these buildings to atlantis, aliens, whatever.

In any event, similar relationships have been found between other man made structures and the natural world. As someone reported, the Washington monuments correspond to a stellar constellation... if you ran the computer simulation you might be able to find a specific time-frame when the monuments were almost exactly corresponding to their stellar counterparts. It doesn't mean that the monuments were built to some secret blueprint.

I'm not saying that it's impossible but I think it's rather unlikely.

 

[Amused]

<<

<< << There are three locations (in Africa, Mexico and Central-America) on this planet with structures which are much too advanced to be build by a primitive civilization, or one with our current knowledge. These structures were all build around 11,500 BC. >>



Huh??? What structures have been dated to 11,500 BC??? >>

The pyramids, the 'pyramids' created by the Maya and more pyramid-like structures made by a civilization whose name I can't remember right now.

Note: I'm not saying that this theory I just described is true, just that it's one of the best theories we have so far to explain all of those magnificient structures even we can't build with so much precision plus the fact that those similar structures are found in three places on this planet which were supposed to have had no regular contact (especially Africa -> America), and that those structures have been found to date back to around 11,500 BC (give or take a couple of thousand years).

Saying that it's just coincidence is the least convincing theory of all IMHO. >>



Um, none of those date anywhere NEAR as old as 11,500 BC