Dog Dilemma

[SP33Demon]

LOL, you are obviously a pretty bad pet owner, or have only known bad pet owners. If properly taken care of there shouldn't be much in the way of excessive stink, a well trained dog is perfectly capable of keeping their mess outside, and as long as you bathe them regularly and are willing to put in the work they wont really smell.

Sounds like you just dont have the time to dedicate to proper animal care, which is fine, but don't act like that's how it is for everyone, if you're a decent pet parent you can have plenty of animals safely, cleanly, and without any real problems.

Now there are plenty of crazy cat or dog people who have 10-20+ animals and aren't taking care of them the way they should be, they will stink, be dirty and generally have poorer health, these are the people however, not the animals fault. These people will generally have the same issues with a single dog or cat as well, so it isn't usually the number of animals that's the problem, these people just shouldnt have pets in general.

I don't think you've ever lived with an excessive amount of pets before. 8 cats and 4 dogs is an absurd amount of brushing, bathing, and steam cleaning the house which still won't get rid of the dander stink. My parents own 5 dogs (breed and sell champions, one is a dog show judge); my SO and I always dread going over there for the holidays. It smells horrible and to their credit they do steam clean a lot but they're only 2 people. I don't think you know how much work it is for even people who actually know a lot and judge them at shows.

I guarantee if you have a crazy number of pets like 5 dogs or 8 cats and 4 dogs, people aren't going to want to come over unless they are also pet owners and love them. To non-pet owners, those houses stink and there's always pet hair somewhere. Not worth it, just get one pet FFS. No, it's not going to get "lonely" if it doesn't have 10 friends to keep it company.

 

[HydroSqueegee]

This is his wife: yes I want a dog, I'll admit I have puppy-itis. My husband finally mentioned the fact that I have worked at a vet clinic for 12+ and yes we have 4 cats and 3 kids, but we have plenty of space. We basically have a 5 bedroom home, and a fully finished basement with a large family rokm. The cats have plenty of space and have the whole dow downstairs to themselves accessible through a cat door.
The dog he mentioned dying years ago was only 3 and died of acute lymphoblastic leukemia and ot was heart breaking. We had adopted him as a puppy 3 weeks before we had our first son and the 2 were inseparable. Its was devestating to our boys who 3 and 18 months when he passed. After he passed my husband took my older dog from my mom and we had him until he passed a few months ago ag 13+ years.
My husbands complaint of cleaning up dog crap could be partly contained bc we have the ability to put up a dog run as we have a back door out of our kitchen in addition to french doors onto the patio. Next year our plan is to build a small mud room in our garage and I want to give the dog some space in there. He wanted to wait until after the mudroom is finished but has admitted he isn't sure he wants a dog then. So I asked when and he is unsure. I'm frustrated that I'm beholden to some arbitrary time in the future when he will say we can have a dog. When we meant I had 2 rescued dogs and 2 rescued cats, its not like after 10 years of marriage I'm suddenly not going to be an animal person.
I work at a vet, when ohr dog was alive he had a standing monthly groom appt (he was a chow mix, lots of fur), our animals are all fed Royal Canin veterinary diets, vaccinated, current lab work etc. I took our previous dog to obedence classes and our dogs are always well socialized.

 

[mnewsham]

I don't think you've ever lived with an excessive amount of pets before. 8 cats and 4 dogs is an absurd amount of brushing, bathing, and steam cleaning the house which still won't get rid of the dander stink. My parents own 5 dogs (breed and sell champions, one is a dog show judge); my SO and I always dread going over there for the holidays. It smells horrible and to their credit they do steam clean a lot but they're only 2 people. I don't think you know how much work it is for even people who actually know a lot and judge them at shows.

I guarantee if you have a crazy number of pets like 5 dogs or 8 cats and 4 dogs, people aren't going to want to come over unless they are also pet owners and love them. To non-pet owners, those houses stink and there's always pet hair somewhere. Not worth it, just get one pet FFS. No, it's not going to get "lonely" if it doesn't have 10 friends to keep it company.

I work with dogs every day I go to work, so trust me I know it's a lot of work, and I have lived with many many animals before, I currently have 3 cats a bird and a 55g freshwater (though possibly soon converting to salt) aquarium. If you are willing to put in the effort required than there is not really going to be a huge issue. If you refuse to train them properly, refuse to see for their hygienic needs, and feed a poor diet then you will get what you are describing much easier.

It all depends on how much work you want to do and how much you're willing to put up with. If you can't put up with any smell at all, pets aren't for you in general, if you can put up with minimal amounts than bathing regularly and grooming regularly are going to be very important.

 

[HydroSqueegee]

I don't think you've ever lived with an excessive amount of pets before. 8 cats and 4 dogs is an absurd amount of brushing, bathing, and steam cleaning the house which still won't get rid of the dander stink. My parents own 5 dogs (breed and sell champions, one is a dog show judge); my SO and I always dread going over there for the holidays. It smells horrible and to their credit they do steam clean a lot but they're only 2 people. I don't think you know how much work it is for even people who actually know a lot and judge them at shows.

I guarantee if you have a crazy number of pets like 5 dogs or 8 cats and 4 dogs, people aren't going to want to come over unless they are also pet owners and love them. To non-pet owners, those houses stink and there's always pet hair somewhere. Not worth it, just get one pet FFS. No, it's not going to get "lonely" if it doesn't have 10 friends to keep it company.

This is the wife again: working at a vet I know quite a few breeders and I can tell you normal pet owners vs breeders typically have less smelly houses/ animals. Breeding dogs are kept intact, the females go in heat, the males tend to mark. Spayed and neutered pets don't have the same smells and same secretions as breeding animals.
Oh and on the note of animal hair, it isn't a big deal- don't wear navy or black and get a roller brush, problem solved.

 

[mnewsham]

I work at a vet, when ohr dog was alive he had a standing monthly groom appt (he was a chow mix, lots of fur), our animals are all fed Royal Canin veterinary diets, vaccinated, current lab work etc. I took our previous dog to obedence classes and our dogs are always well socialized.

As someone who deals with people who are thinking of getting a dog or have just recently got a dog on a daily basis you sound like you know what you're doing and should you and your husband decide to get a dog it will be going to a good home.

 

[norseamd]

I don't think you've ever lived with an excessive amount of pets before. 8 cats and 4 dogs is an absurd amount of brushing, bathing, and steam cleaning the house which still won't get rid of the dander stink. My parents own 5 dogs (breed and sell champions, one is a dog show judge); my SO and I always dread going over there for the holidays. It smells horrible and to their credit they do steam clean a lot but they're only 2 people. I don't think you know how much work it is for even people who actually know a lot and judge them at shows. I guarantee if you have a crazy number of pets like 5 dogs or 8 cats and 4 dogs, people aren't going to want to come over unless they are also pet owners and love them. To non-pet owners, those houses stink and there's always pet hair somewhere. Not worth it, just get one pet FFS. No, it's not going to get "lonely" if it doesn't have 10 friends to keep it company.

the problem

you relize that americans and vietnamese sould smell each other in the vietnam war right?

 

[HydroSqueegee]

I would definitely trade four cats for one good dog, but that's just me. Oh, also, I have two large ones and I don't clean up the dog crap in the yard. It's not like it's dayglo orange or something. Back to the soil, I say.

Wife: He informed me today we would be dow one cat soon anyways since my 18 year old cat would be dead soon anyways

 

[norseamd]

Royal Canin

is this all natural?

55g freshwater (though possibly soon converting to salt) aquarium

are these easy to take care of?

 

[gorcorps]

your house sounds nuts

I'd leave and find a new family

 

[mnewsham]

is this all natural?

Royal canin is not, but they are the most science backed brand currently on the market, they do a LOT of research before making their formula. This makes sure it has everything your dog needs (even if it's not all natural). It's about the same price as other high end natural or holistic brands though.

are these easy to take care of?

Yep, the hard part is getting it all set up and running, once that's taken care of regular maintenance is all that's really needed. Saltwater on the other hand is a bit more tricky.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

This is his wife: yes I want a dog, I'll admit I have puppy-itis. My husband finally mentioned the fact that I have worked at a vet clinic for 12+ and yes we have 4 cats and 3 kids, but we have plenty of space.

Even if space is not an issue the extra work would be.

My question is that with a job, a husband, 4 cats and 3 kids why do you feel a void in your life that could only be filled by a dog? Aren't your life and your house full/busy enough without making this such a contentious issue? Make a deal, keep the peace. Agree to get a dog after the first kid goes off to college or 2 of the cats die of natural causes.

 

[SP33Demon]

Wife: He informed me today we would be dow one cat soon anyways since my 18 year old cat would be dead soon anyways

If you lose a cat then I suppose you could swing a dog. I'd still rather have 4 cats than 3 cats and a dog. I'd actually only have ONE cat and have kept it to that over the years. But that's just me. I don't see the need for more than one freaking pet, you've been watching too many Sarah McLachlan infomercials to save a pet's life. Well guess what, thousands of pets are put down every day, you can't save them all. By rescuing one you've done your part.

OP (i.e. husband), I would make sure that I never have to take care of the dog if at all possible. Make the wife and kids sign something that says they're going to bear the lion's share of work for it. Of course you will inevitably get suckered in taking care of it every now and then, but so be it. Judging from your wife's post, she's pretty much got her mind set on another dog so looks like you're going to have to compromise.

 

[norseamd]

Yep, the hard part is getting it all set up and running, once that's taken care of regular maintenance is all that's really needed. Saltwater on the other hand is a bit more tricky.

the constant attention is what i care about

what would you recommend for a beginner

a desk size fish tank and at lleast 5 if not 10 or 15 fish (depends on size i guess) along with some snails. need some objects also

fresh plants if near a window.

would plants be able to work with 8 hours or so of light during mid day?

 

[mnewsham]

the constant attention is what i care about

what would you recommend for a beginner

a desk size fish tank and at lleast 5 if not 10 or 15 fish (depends on size i guess) along with some snails. need some objects also

fresh plants if near a window.

would plants be able to work with 8 hours or so of light during mid day?

With freshwater it's not TOO constant, you should be testing 2-3 times a week, water changes monthly, and depending on your filter some filter maintenance whenever it's needed. Besides that as long as your levels stay in a decent range you shouldn't have to do anything.

For an absolute beginner I would recommend a Betta, they don't need a heater, dont need a filter, and they can be in very small tanks easily. The only real issue is you could only have 1 (unless you have a divider to separate them) because they will kill each other, they are very aggressive fish. However the males are very colourful and come in several different types (veil tails, double tails, elephant ear, etc etc) and can be decently sized (2+")

Plants would work, but you want to avoid natural light if at all possible because you will get MAJOR algae growth even if you could get an algae eater in the tank it would likely be too much for a tank that small, would make your water quality harder to keep in check. You can always give it a shot, but I just don't know enough about your specifics to really say for sure.

I usually recommend a bulb specifically meant for plant growth if you want to do live plants. If you wanted to go with something fancy you could get a Nano tank with a full spectrum LED block (or one designed specifically for plant growth).


If you wanted to do schooling fish you would need a larger tank, in the 10-20g range for how many fish you are talking about, that's not too practical for desks in my experience, but you will need to be the judge here. I would go with a cichlid tank or just an array of guppies and maybe some tetras and a plecko or two. Basic power filter and in tank heater plus some decorations and live plants if you so desire. On a tank this size you will need to get a hood which will fit either t5 or t8 bulbs (or you can get an LED system for a lot of $). If you go for live plants look for a bulb with the correct spectrum for live plants (ZooMed calls this line their "Flora sun" bulb).


That's the basics, but it can vary depending on any number of things so you should really go to an aquarist in your area if you need some help as a lot of this is easier to understand when you can see the products im talking about

 

[thedarkwolf]

Congrats your getting a dog.

Every time one of my parent's animals die off my Dad is adamant that there will not be a replacement. They have been down as low as 1 dog and 3 cats but currently have 3 dogs and 5 cats LOL. Plus they foster for a dog rescue so at times they have had 4 or 5 puppies running around too. Their newest dog was one of their foster dogs and my Dad of all people is the one that decided to keep it. Dogs do have an odor but it is nothing compared to the cats. Cat piss is horrible so with 4 cats already you won't even smell the dog. One of the reasons why I personally have 2 dogs and 0 cats.

 

[norseamd]

For an absolute beginner I would recommend a Betta, they don't need a heater, dont need a filter, and they can be in very small tanks easily. The only real issue is you could only have 1 (unless you have a divider to separate them) because they will kill each other, they are very aggressive fish. However the males are very colourful and come in several different types (veil tails, double tails, elephant ear, etc etc) and can be decently sized (2+")

had betas before (well not actually mine)

you can sometimes keep females together i think

If you wanted to do schooling fish you would need a larger tank, in the 10-20g range for how many fish you are talking about, that's not too practical for desks in my experience, but you will need to be the judge here. I would go with a cichlid tank or just an array of guppies and maybe some tetras and a plecko or two. Basic power filter and in tank heater plus some decorations and live plants if you so desire. On a tank this size you will need to get a hood which will fit either t5 or t8 bulbs (or you can get an LED system for a lot of $). If you go for live plants look for a bulb with the correct spectrum for live plants (ZooMed calls this line their "Flora sun" bulb).

when i said desk i meant something thought could take up a whole desk or small table. was thinking like 20 gallons but am not sure how big the sizes actually are. when you said 45 i was wondering if it was like 5 feet by 8 feet by 4 feet. so it has to fit a a desk or something

 

[BladeVenom]

Why not a snake?

 

[mikeford]

Why not rescue a dog without long to live to see how you like it?

One of my friends does greyhound rescue and claims its much cheaper than many exotic foreign cars.

 

[mnewsham]

had betas before (well not actually mine)

you can sometimes keep females together i think



when i said desk i meant something thought could take up a whole desk or small table. was thinking like 20 gallons but am not sure how big the sizes actually are. when you said 45 i was wondering if it was like 5 feet by 8 feet by 4 feet. so it has to fit a a desk or something

A standard 55g tank is 48 1/4 x 12 3/4 x 21. It will weigh ~625Lbs when full of water and gravel. The weight is the main reason why we recommend people invest in actual aquarium stands as they are built for it.

A 20g tank will weigh about 225Lbs and the common dimensions are:
20 Long: 30 1/4 x 12 1/2 x 12 3/4
20 High: 24 1/4 x 12 1/2 x 16 3/4


So for you a 20g might fit your bill, high or long depending on what you want.



Oh and as for the Bettas you can keep males in the same tank if you have enough space, but you need a large tank I have a friend who has 6 Bettas in a 150g tank. They all have their own established territory and will usually stay in their own area, however this isn't particularly recommended and occasionally they may fight each other and kill one another anyway.

I didn't particularly mention the females because they aren't very good looking and are very small, mostly only breeders buy them or people who just look for the cheapest type in the store.

 

[norseamd]

what type of fish do you recommend? also thinking about some snails. heard they can keep the tank clean

 

[mnewsham]

what type of fish do you recommend? also thinking about some snails. heard they can keep the tank clean

snails are cool, they do their jobs, the snails and a plecostomus will keep the tank in pretty decent condition. However plecostomus are somewhat known for digging up aquatic plants so you may need to replant regularly.

If you just have snails and forgo a plecostomus you may need to scrub the tank a bit more regularly, but not a huge deal and the snails should be able to control MOST of the growth unless it gets a lot of natural light.

In a 20g you could get several types of tetras, possibly two or three groups of five and then a few assorted guppies.


However you need to establish the nitrogen cycle in your tank before you start adding all the fish you want for good. Read up on that (link) it's a somewhat involved process that you will need to go through to set the tank up correctly and ensure any fish you put in your tank wont just die.

 

[norseamd]

seems sucker fish grow too big for a tank

 

[mnewsham]

seems sucker fish grow too big for a tank

some breeds will, most you find in fish stores wont grow too big. If you are getting a more expensive one then yes, they can get fairly large and eventually would need a 30-40g tank.

 

[norseamd]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plecostomus

says they grow up to 2 feet

that would be impratical for anything smaller than a room unless it has no room to swim and that would not be good for the fish. were you thinking about a different species?

 

[mnewsham]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plecostomus

says they grow up to 2 feet

that would be impratical for anything smaller than a room unless it has no room to swim and that would not be good for the fish. were you thinking about a different species?

They will not grow that large because they are captive breed and are in a tank their whole lives, it stunts their growth unless you have a 150g+ tank. They will NEVER get that large unless they have enough room to get that large, anything over 20g will be enough for them to get decent sized (5-6+") but not HUGE unless you really give them a huge amount of space. The largest we have right now is about 5" and had him for 2 years.