Doom 3 Benchmarks at [H]

[Gamingphreek]

What are the 2 more important ones of this year... Doom and what. If you haven't noticed Wolfenstein ET is a very graphically intense game when run with all setting maxed at 16x12. My 5900XT struggles sometimes at 12x10.

Also those benches seems to me like they are onpar, what did you expect double the performance. Also keep in mind OpenGL or Direct X AF is Nvidias big weakness. Also you cant completely accurately compare Aa and AF or both between the 2 cards nowadays as both "cheat" per se.

-Kevin

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

Have you not heard of Quake 3 or any of the games based on its engine?

All the quake 3 games already get huge fps on a 9700/9800 though.

What about KOTOR? or NWN? Your statement is very weak.

How about 3D rendering apps? The last time I checked a GF4 based card will annihilate a 9700 based card in just about every 3D rendering benchmark, sometimes by a factor of 2 or 3.

I don't know much about that, suffice to say that this is a nonissue for most gamers.

Glad you cleared that up for yourself.

Negative. CoD runs better on Nvidia cards.

On the 6800s. The 9800 Pro beats the 5950.

Call of Duty may be the only argument you have. I suppose thats why you chose it for your example and nothing else.

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0604/itogi-video-cod-wxp-1600.html

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous
Hmmmm, who should I believe? Gamingphreek or Gabe Newell? You've seen several benches of HL2 and just toss them out the window. So far, you've accused Toms, Hardocp, digit-life, and firingsquad of being ATI biased. :roll:

Even if you don't believe what I say, you might want to actually do some research before making your own foolish conclusions. By the way, I have yet to see any set of benchmarks where the 5900XT beats the 9800 Pro in 30% of tests. Care to show us your source?

Gotta love Fanboys!

Indeed. Except I am just quoting almost exactly what anand said in his HL2 testing.

It's not even just me. With the release of the 6800 LE at $200, it looks like even Nvidia has effectively killed the 5xxx series. A good move IMO, the 6800 series are far superior products..

General, nobody's buying what your selling. If you hadn't noticed, most of us are on to you and those that are not soon will be. You have damaged whatever credibility you may have had in here a long time ago and you just keep running that mouth off. And, it actually occured to me today that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. All you do is "selectively" take other peoples quotes and most of the time not even acknowledge questions that you cant answer lest you look foolish.
Rage3D needs you full time. Run, don't walk. Don't let the transistor gate hit you in the a$$ on the way out. See ya, Buh bye.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Call of Duty may be the only argument you have. I suppose thats why you chose it for your example and nothing else.

I chose it because its the most popular opengl game today until Doom 3's release.

What about KOTOR? or NWN?

What about them? They run better on 5xxx cards. Consider it said.

Anyway, I never said that 9xxx cards were better at opengl games, but rather than they can compete well in a good portion of them.

And, it actually occured to me today that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. All you do is "selectively" take other peoples quotes and most of the time not even acknowledge questions that you cant answer lest you look foolish.

Forgive me for not placing much importance in your opinion. Good day to you, and I hope you enjoy gaming on your awesome 5900 card. I'm surprised you're not over at NVnews.

I really hope you don't mislead anyone into thinking a 5xxx card is a worthy piece of hardware.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: gururu
no, actually I was thinking specifically of UT2K4, which is supposed to be lacking when run under OpenGL.

Yes of course it's lacking in OpenGL, it's a DirectX game! The only way to enable OpenGL mode is to basically hack the UT2004.ini file. UT2004 wasn't meant to be run under OpenGL; I'm not sure why they included the ability to run under it even.

As far as questioning D3's visuals.... well, do we really think they are going to be revolutionary? I saw the leaked demo eons ago, and it didn't seem like all that. I think the game is riding moreso on the 'experience', but I guess we'll see what the final product looks like visually.

I dunno, there was a poll on this not long ago and DoomIII beat HL2 by a landslide in terms of graphics. Maybe you haven't seen the screenshots that I have.

I don't believe anything done in DirectX can be done in OpenGL. Why is that belief so widespread?

It's widespread because it's true. If you can find some evidence of something being possible graphically under DirectX that cannot be done under OpenGL I'll give you a :cookie;.

As a matter of fact, there are things that are possible under OpenGL that are not possible under DirectX. Ever heard of ATi's F-buffer for the 9800 cards?

As far as Microsoft and gaming, well I don't see how they've stifled or prevented game technologies. I'd argue that they've actually accelerated them. Silicon Graphics was in no position to carry the torch of the 3D API because they'd been struggliing financially for decades. They didn't have to sell their patents to microsoft.

Would you not admit that DirectX has helped to kill off the Mac as a gaming platform, along with Linux? Microsoft doesn't want anyone to use these platforms, and DirectX is a pretty good reason not to ATM.

You're right, SGI didn't have to sell off their patents, but Microsoft didn't have to buy them with the sole intent of killing off OpenGL.

As far as Opengl being used in workstations, well it serves the purpose, but that doesn't really seem to bear on the gaming industry.

Maybe not, but it shows that it's a standard and it's here to stay. It also shows that very advanced things are possible under OpenGL.

here's a general question, is OpenGl used to make the graphics in movies like Finding Nemo?

I'm not 100% certain, but I would say yes. I have yet to hear of an SGI workstation that operates under DirectX. Just about everything in the world of professional graphics operates under OpenGL.

I apologize for tearing up your post; I don't usually do this.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

Call of Duty may be the only argument you have. I suppose thats why you chose it for your example and nothing else.

I chose it because its the most popular opengl game today until Doom 3's release.

What about KOTOR? or NWN?

What about them? They run better on 5xxx cards. Consider it said.

Anyway, I never said that 9xxx cards were better at opengl games, but rather than they can compete well in a good portion of them.

And, it actually occured to me today that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. All you do is "selectively" take other peoples quotes and most of the time not even acknowledge questions that you cant answer lest you look foolish.

Forgive me for not placing much importance in your opinion. Good day to you, and I hope you enjoy gaming on your awesome 5900 card. I'm surprised you're not over at NVnews.

I really hope you don't mislead anyone into thinking a 5xxx card is a worthy piece of hardware.

I wouldn't dream of recommending a 5xxx card to anyone that could afford a 6800.

 

[gururu]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

I don't believe anything done in DirectX can be done in OpenGL. Why is that belief so widespread?

It's widespread because it's true. If you can find some evidence of something being possible graphically under DirectX that cannot be done under OpenGL I'll give you a :cookie;.

As far as Microsoft and gaming, well I don't see how they've stifled or prevented game technologies. I'd argue that they've actually accelerated them. Silicon Graphics was in no position to carry the torch of the 3D API because they'd been struggliing financially for decades. They didn't have to sell their patents to microsoft.

Would you not admit that DirectX has helped to kill off the Mac as a gaming platform, along with Linux? Microsoft doesn't want anyone to use these platforms, and DirectX is a pretty good reason not to ATM.

You're right, SGI didn't have to sell off their patents, but Microsoft didn't have to buy them with the sole intent of killing off OpenGL.

I apologize for tearing up your post; I don't usually do this.

It's not that I believed directx to be more advanced, but I figured that it would only be logical to assume that each API had advantages over the other, feature-wise. Given the constant flow of DirectX revisions, I also figured that there was a lot more going into it.

I don't agree that directx had much to do with the difficulties Apple has had in establishing a gaming platform. I attribute that to Apple's historic inability to let the end-user fiddle with upgrades. I think nowadays, most real gamers since 3dfx have bought their video cards separately or have based their computer purchases on graphics hardware. Macs, until recently haven't had decent graphics hardware or the drivers to run it period.
I don't think MS had any intent to 'off' opengl. I think they were thinking bigger than that.
No apology necessary Sickbeast, it was helpful.

 

[BFG10K]

Well, they seem to have improved Wolf:ET performance markedly in the past few months.

Maybe it's just that game as I benchmark and monitor more than a dozen OpenGL games and I haven't seen any significant gains since Cat 2.3 or so. I have however seen compatibility and driver issues escalate since 3.10.

ATI is currently completely rewriting their OpenGL drivers from the ground up.

I realize that. My question is why they waited until Doom III arrived before they did it.

DoomIII was basically tailor-made for nVidia hardware.

The ARB2 path is quite standard and there's also a specific path for the R200.

 

[Pete]

Apparently the word is now that this fabled "ground-up" OGL rewrite will arrive with the Xbox2-level GPU (R500?), meaning Spring at the earliest. I wonder if it'll even be usable by current ATi cards?

 

[nemesismk2]

<double post>

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: GeneralGrievous

I wanted frame rates you muppet, saying "very low framerates" means nothing to me. How low 30fps 10fps 5fps 1fps??? You don't know do you because you are once again talking complete and utter crap!

Ok, fine.
Framerates

Does anyone know how old the build of half life 2 is in that article? I emailed digit life but so far they have not replied, surely they wouldn't be using the build from last year to show half life 2 performance?

Anyway what the hell are we doing talking about half life 2 when Doom III will be released in about two weeks!!!

 

[nemesismk2]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

I wouldn't dream of recommending a 5xxx card to anyone that could afford a 6800.

I agree with you 100%, the 6800 is vastly superior to the 5xxx range, the problem is that until the 6800 LE is released even the 6800 is too expensive for alot of users.

 

[PhoenixOrion]

Bottomline:

All 256MB cards, either from nvidia and ati, will all play at the hard capped 60 fps from the commercial version of the game.

 

[Marsumane]

This thread has turned into a tangent that is unrelated to the thread's intent

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: PhoenixOrion
Bottomline:

All 256MB cards, either from nvidia and ati, will all play at the hard capped 60 fps from the commercial version of the game.

No. They made FX5600 256MB cars IIRC, and some 9600 256MB cards.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: nemesismk2
Does anyone know how old the build of half life 2 is in that article? I emailed digit life but so far they have not replied, surely they wouldn't be using the build from last year to show half life 2 performance?

They are. You're looking at benchmarks of last year's leaked alpha/beta.

 

[dfloyd]

To the person above stating that DirectX has alot to do with my Apple and Linux are not doing better as a gaming system. I would 100% agree. I would say this is the main reason Linux and Apple are not doing as well. I centrally based API that covers sound, input, graphics, and more is extremely important for hardware compatibility and making it easier to create games for a system. I have said for many years Linux will not take off until it has a DirectX type of API as a gaming system. You can claim it has to do with lack of decent hardware but this would be incorrect as Linux does have decent hardware but still suffers from the same problem that the Apple does.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: ZimZum
ATI is currently completely rewriting their OpenGL drivers from the ground up.

I don't think that will help very much; DoomIII was basically tailor-made for nVidia hardware. It will give ATi some gains but I can't see them ever surpassing nVidia in DoomIII, aside from next-gen hardware like the R500.

More like NVidia taylor-made the GPU for Id.
Carmack has talked over and over about lighting and shadow in games since back in Quake. ATI not being up to par for this stuff in OpenGL (and having slower OGL anyway) is their problem.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: ZimZum
ATI is currently completely rewriting their OpenGL drivers from the ground up.

I don't think that will help very much; DoomIII was basically tailor-made for nVidia hardware. It will give ATi some gains but I can't see them ever surpassing nVidia in DoomIII, aside from next-gen hardware like the R500.

More like NVidia taylor-made the GPU for Id.
Carmack has talked over and over about lighting and shadow in games since back in Quake. ATI not being up to par for this stuff in OpenGL (and having slower OGL anyway) is their problem.

It's not just the GL drivers; NV40 can run in a 32x0 pipeline configuration in DoomIII whereas R420 can only do 16x1. Carmack was using a GF1 as his reference card when he started making DoomIII, and I'm guessing he kept adding features for newer nVidia cards as the years went by. He has always favoured nVidia's hardware and drivers AFAIK.

R420 is not capable of the same shader programmablilty that the NV40 has, plus there's the 32x0 pipeline thing. NV40 will always be faster than R420 in DoomIII, even if ATi has Carmack himself program their OpenGL drivers IMO.

 

[reallyscrued]

can someone explain to me this wierd 32x0 config? wtf is that? and what about the 6800NU with the 12 pipes, is it also 32x0?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: reallyscrued
can someone explain to me this wierd 32x0 config? wtf is that? and what about the 6800NU with the 12 pipes, is it also 32x0?

I think that would be 24x0 no?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: reallyscrued
can someone explain to me this wierd 32x0 config? wtf is that? and what about the 6800NU with the 12 pipes, is it also 32x0?

Each pixel pipeline has a pair of dedicated FP32 units. For this reason, nVidia describes the architecture as either 16x1 or 32x0, depending on whether a texturing operation is being executed. The 6800 Ultra is effectively a 16x1 architecture when texture operations are occuring. When texturing operations are not being carried out, the 6800 can act as a 32x0 architecture.

As for the 6800NU, yes, it would run in a 24x0 configuration in those situations, as keys pointed out.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Originally posted by: Excelsior

Originally posted by: PhoenixOrion
Bottomline:
All 256MB cards, either from nvidia and ati, will all play at the hard capped 60 fps from the commercial version of the game.

No. They made FX5600 256MB cars IIRC, and some 9600 256MB cards.

Heck, they made FX5200 and R9200 cards with 256MB too. For what purpose, I have no idea. Maybe an additional built-in disk cache feature to go with your underperforming graphics card? Use the GPU for RAID 5 parity calculations?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: reallyscrued
can someone explain to me this wierd 32x0 config? wtf is that? and what about the 6800NU with the 12 pipes, is it also 32x0?

Actually, the 6800 may also be 32x0. A thread at B3D posited that the 6800 retains all of its ROPs, even with a disabled quad, because the ROPs (which are responsible for the zixel calcalations that yield a "32x0" config) appear to be separated from the pixel pipes by a crossbar switch.

I can't get to B3D right now to provide the link, though. Otherwise, I'd also have thought a 6800 would be 12x1/24x0.

 

[user1234]

Anyway what the hell are we doing talking about half life 2 when Doom III will be released in about two weeks!!!

What the hell are you talking about, doom 3 will be release in less than a week (next tuesday)