Dragon Age 3: Inquisition announced

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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
The thing is, I have my doubts you really would dislike DA:I, if you give it a chance. A lot of people can get the mind set that if a game is bad, everything about it is bad. DA:I works, even if you thought those things sucked in DA2.

Sometimes it is simply a matter of expecting DA:Origins, and when things change, you are upset, but given time to adapt, you can appreciate the new ways of doing things.

My advice is simply to look at DA:I as a new game, and not a sequel. As a sequel, people have expectations, but as a stand alone game, you can accept it, and enjoy it.

They definitely put more effort into DA:I than DA2, so I don't think it could be any WORSE than DA2.

A demo of DA:I would certainly help me pick up the game. Most of the complaints I hear are with the controls, so I'd like to try them myself.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,682
31,004
146
If you didn't like DA2 combat, how do you like Inquisition? Inquisition is almost an exact copy of DA2, so I assume you also hate DA:I. And your dialog choices, must also be hated in Inquisition? There isn't hardly any difference between the two.

DA:I is more like DA2 than Origins, except in that it is more polished like Origins.

Having not played DA2 myself, and based on those who have played both and what they have told me....DA:I is nothing like DA2. It is supposedly the only real sequel to DA:O.

I think you are the first person I have seen to comment that it is similar to DA2--much less an exact copy.


Or do you just mean the combat? I would say that the tactics mode and combat flow in DA:I is noticeably different from DA:O--I feel that I don't need it all that often, aside from moving certain people into better parts of the field. I'm definitely not setting up a string of combos during a fight like I was with DA:O. SOme of told me that running around DA2, you just mash attack and win, without much thought after that. In some ways, I feel the same about DA:I, but you defiintely have to focus on which skills you are using.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Having not played DA2 myself, and based on those who have played both and what they have told me....DA:I is nothing like DA2. It is supposedly the only real sequel to DA:O.

I think you are the first person I have seen to comment that it is similar to DA2--much less an exact copy.


Or do you just mean the combat? I would say that the tactics mode and combat flow in DA:I is noticeably different from DA:O--I feel that I don't need it all that often, aside from moving certain people into better parts of the field. I'm definitely not setting up a string of combos during a fight like I was with DA:O. SOme of told me that running around DA2, you just mash attack and win, without much thought after that. In some ways, I feel the same about DA:I, but you defiintely have to focus on which skills you are using.

I specifically mentioned what was different in my first post about it, and what was the same, or very close. Combat is far closer to DA2 than DA:Origin. I also mentioned that the dialog wheel is the same as DA2. Dumak made a long post about how bad DA2 was, and started with combat, so I thought he should know, that is very much the same as DA2. He also mentioned the dialog wheel.

Now, the problems of DA2 have been addressed. Or at least the problems most complained about.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,682
31,004
146
They definitely put more effort into DA:I than DA2, so I don't think it could be any WORSE than DA2.

A demo of DA:I would certainly help me pick up the game. Most of the complaints I hear are with the controls, so I'd like to try them myself.

KB and Mouse is pretty bad, especially if you depend on tactical mode--though regarding my previous post, if you find yourself ignoring tactical a lot, you may not need it. Even so with the gamepad, there is an annoying issue where your cursor is forced to follow the same path that you would have to follow when moving the battlefield.

So, say you want to target something on a cliff with a ranged companion. You can't just point your cursor at the dude on the cliff, even if he is in range. You actually have to drag the cursor up the path to where your target is standing. If the path up is offscreen, or just beyond the range of the cursor (yes, there is also a limited distance to where you can move your cursor, from point of attack--annoying), then you are SoL.

Even so, the WASD controls on KB &M are flat awful. you can only move in 4 directions, so it feels very clunky. I mean, we're talking 1991 Sierra games type range of movement, lol.

Overall, I find the gamepad a much better experience, you just sacrifice having to deal with one general menu to get to all of your various menus--the map, inventory, journal, character screen, etc--I hate that, but it's the only real problem with the gamepad controls, imo. (poor pathing in the tactical menu for the cursor is a design problem, I think) The Keyboard is also deactivated with gamepad, so you can't use both at the same time. I have no problem using the 8 skills on the gamepad--you use left trigger to swap skill set, which I have found useful for mapping primary attack skills, then various taunts, guard, teamwhatever skills in the secondary set.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,682
31,004
146
I specifically mentioned what was different in my first post about it, and what was the same, or very close. Combat is far closer to DA2 than DA:Origin. I also mentioned that the dialog wheel is the same as DA2. Dumak made a long post about how bad DA2 was, and started with combat, so I thought he should know, that is very much the same as DA2. He also mentioned the dialog wheel.

Now, the problems of DA2 have been addressed. Or at least the problems most complained about.

I recall the same dialogue wheel in DA:O. ...it's been a few years, but how is that different between O and I?
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
215
106
I recall the same dialogue wheel in DA:O. ...it's been a few years, but how is that different between O and I?

There's no dialog wheel in Origins.

It's text-based choices, yes, but the choices are numbered and listed from top to bottom.

For example:

1. [sentence]
2. [sentence]
3. [sentence]
4. *'special option'* (such as [attack] / [kiss] / [stay silent]) when available


And of course, it isn't voiced (I mean the Warden isn't).

As for DA2's and Inquisition's dialog wheel, they are quite similar, but not identical. There's more options in Inquisition, some which where simply none existent in DA2. Instead of being "limited to" the usual DA2's Diplomatic / Sarcastic / Harsh options (when presented with them anyway, which isn't all the time to start with), now in Inquisition you can go with "Confusion", "Denial / Disbelief", "History" (that's the book icon, it doesn't appear often at all), or "Deceptive" (that's the crow icon with the purple background, which also appears only a few times). But on top of the new options you still have the "Diplomatic / Sarcastic / Harsh" approach with their respective icons (which themselves show up regularly enough). There's also one that I'd probably call "Emotional", it's indicated by an icon that looks like an eye with a tear, in which case your character would respond more emotionally. By the way the words I'm using here to describe the dialog wheel choices aren't official in any way, it's just me trying to come up with something that can affiliate to them.

What I actually prefer in DA2 is how the voice tone of your Hawke changes accordingly if you keep using the same type of option often enough without suddenly veering off the personality track, and keeping the consistency intact. If from the beginning of DA2 you go with the middle "Sarcastic" one (the purple smiley face icon) and keep doing so for most of the game (don't have to do it for ALL the game's duration but you have to keep some consistency) then your Hawke will usually reply in a sarcastic fashion for the majority of the game even when the dialog wheel with those personality options don't show up. That "personality consistency" system in Inquisition is technically there to some degree, but I find that keeping the personality consistent in Inquisition is frustratingly difficult and doesn't seem to "stick" most of the time.

I'm not sure if that's because the voice actors themselves were not told that they were delivering 'x' and 'y' lines for 'a' and 'b' personality types... or simply because BioWare just plastered those options for mere role-play purposes on our part (without the help of the voice actors). But after one full playthrough (and starting a second one) I thought that personality-wise my Inquisitor seemed to be pretty much all over the place. Even though I did try to keep the same dialog option for most of the game's duration, the problem is that now there's many more new types of responses that your character can give, so you're more tempted than not to veer away from would-be consistencies and try out different responses.

But anyway, the dialog wheel in Inquisition is similar in mechanic to that of DA2's, but it's definitely more fleshed-out in Inquisition.
 
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bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
I recall the same dialogue wheel in DA:O. ...it's been a few years, but how is that different between O and I?

Yes, it's changed, though I only know of the PC version. In the PC version there was no wheel. You had a list of specific dialog choices, with the exact words you were going to say in each of them.

DA2 added the wheel, with general thoughts on what you are going to say, but not the actual dialog. Sometimes I think they mean one thing, and say something different than I expected.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
DA2 is far less buggy then DA:I as it stands right now,it's not a terrible game IHMO but not fantastic,I would give it 5.5/10 or 6/10 rating for DA2.

Btw interesting thread over at Bioware on "Should I skip DA2 and go straight into Inquistion?" http://forum.bioware.com/topic/531211-should-i-skip-da-ii-and-go-straight-into-inquisition/


It's in no spoilers forum so safe to read.
I forgot another reason to get DA2 before DA:I ,The dragon Keep,since all those important decisions from DAO and DA2 can be imported into the dragon Keep for DA:I.

FAQs on The Dragon Keep here,
http://forum.bioware.com/topic/510457-dragon-age-keep-faqs/

The Dragon keep link below.
https://dragonagekeep.com/en_US/
 
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Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
Inquisition's combat is not like DA2's combat. To my experience, you don't get multiple waves of spontaneously appearing enemies in DAI like you did in DA2. It's more like Origins in that, when an encounter starts, the enemies on the field are going to be the enemies you encounter (barring something defined, like the several waves of enemies that come from rifts).
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Inquisition's combat is not like DA2's combat. To my experience, you don't get multiple waves of spontaneously appearing enemies in DAI like you did in DA2. It's more like Origins in that, when an encounter starts, the enemies on the field are going to be the enemies you encounter (barring something defined, like the several waves of enemies that come from rifts).

In that way, yes DA:I is more like Origins, but DA:I does have the rifts, and occasionally waves. I'm talking about your skill trees, and how you actually fight.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
215
106
In that way, yes DA:I is more like Origins, but DA:I does have the rifts, and occasionally waves. I'm talking about your skill trees, and how you actually fight.

I agree on the similarity.

But Inquisition's fighting animations are generally more directed and slower than the more frantic / 'arcade'ish speed they have in DA2. It is especially noticeable when you compare the fighting animations (in style, and speed) of the melee classes between both games. The one class that I think doesn't differ that much in comparison is the Mage. As far as I could see from looking at Solas, Dorian and Vivienne during combat their actual animations and their attack speed is pretty much the same as in DA2, perhaps with just a few changes from some skills that themselves changed a bit from DA2 (or were replaced).

The 2-hander and Sword & Shield animations in Inquisition feel more "accurate" I guess and less speedy-for-the-heck-of-the-visual-show than they are in DA2 (especially 2-hander skill and regular attack swing speeds). In DA2 it doesn't "feel" like you're using a heavy steel 2-handed sword. In Inquisition it's more on the "this is is heavy but I'm still giving you a decent spectacle because this isn't a simulation" side of things.

Generally-speaking I think that Inquisition's combat is more satisfying. I really enjoyed DA2's character stories, but never was a fan of its combat system (but I never thought that it was "bad" anyway, the combat itself in DA2 is decent, what's horrible is just the enemy waves spawning out of thin air).
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
You might not have tried a dual wield rogue in DA:I. They are extremely fast paced. Perhaps the 2h warrior is different. I'm not sure 1h/shield was any different though.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,202
215
106
You might not have tried a dual wield rogue in DA:I. They are extremely fast paced. Perhaps the 2h warrior is different. I'm not sure 1h/shield was any different though.

Nope, haven't tried dual wield rogue, although I did of course see Sera and Cole doing it (I specced them both for dual wield but with different builds). I agree they seemed to be rather fast, but to be honest as far as rogues are concerned I would expect them to be agile, fast and dextrous. My own Inquisitor was an archer in my first playthrough (2-hander in my second). The archer's animations and attack speeds were good in my opinion, nothing exaggerated in terms of "arrows per second", it's a decent, even plausible pace of attack.

What I seek though ultimately is merely fun. I do have fun with Inquisition's combat, overall (except when the occasional bugs screw things up a bit, such as with Leaping Shot for the archer sending me back through hill sides, trees, half-way through the ground only to be catapulted back 5 meters in the air and taking damage falling back, etc).
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,682
31,004
146
Yes, it's changed, though I only know of the PC version. In the PC version there was no wheel. You had a list of specific dialog choices, with the exact words you were going to say in each of them.

DA2 added the wheel, with general thoughts on what you are going to say, but not the actual dialog. Sometimes I think they mean one thing, and say something different than I expected.

oh yeah, now I remember. pretty much the same complaint with ME2...
 

Red Hawk

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2011
3,266
169
106
What spoilers? It something to do with Solas, that isn't spoiling anything. I preferred DA 2 to Origins myself.

It spoiled that there's a connection between Solas and
Flemeth
. That is spoiling something. You didn't give away exact details, but just mentioning that there is a plot twist involving them is frustrating enough. Please keep stuff like that in spoiler tags.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
Does anyone know how to get to the Red Lyrium map pins in the Storm Coast? Looks like it'd be through a cave, but the door along the coast is non-interactable.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
Does anyone know how to get to the Red Lyrium map pins in the Storm Coast? Looks like it'd be through a cave, but the door along the coast is non-interactable.
It opens up when you do a war table event for the red templars on the storm coast. From there you can go to dragon island as well if you want to fight the dragon in the area.
 

facetman

Senior member
Aug 30, 2014
201
4
81
YES!! Bagged my first dragon last night- wow- tough fight- used up all the 12 heal potions I can carry and 2 Warriors were unguarded and nearly dead, my mage was 1/2 gone and I ( Bow Rogue) was also 1/2 dead. EPIC fun...
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
It opens up when you do a war table event for the red templars on the storm coast. From there you can go to dragon island as well if you want to fight the dragon in the area.

Ah, so thats it. Guess I need to knock out some story missions then. :/


YES!! Bagged my first dragon last night- wow- tough fight- used up all the 12 heal potions I can carry and 2 Warriors were unguarded and nearly dead, my mage was 1/2 gone and I ( Bow Rogue) was also 1/2 dead. EPIC fun...

Out of curiosity, what level were you? I ran into the lightning dragon, Northern Hunter, in Crestwood around level 12, and got my ass royally spanked.
 

bystander36

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2013
5,154
132
106
Out of curiosity, what level were you? I ran into the lightning dragon, Northern Hunter, in Crestwood around level 12, and got my ass royally spanked.

I did that one at level 13/14. I think my party was 13, and my hero was 14. He requires more thought to beat than most.
Pay attention to the lightning rings he puts around your characters.
It took me a few tries to beat. I believe the Hinterlands one was the next most difficult I faced.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,682
31,004
146
I did that one at level 13/14. I think my party was 13, and my hero was 14. He requires more thought to beat than most.
Pay attention to the lightning rings he puts around your characters.
It took me a few tries to beat. I believe the Hinterlands one was the next most difficult I faced.

I thought it was the Storm Coast Dragon that did that--I do recall pulsating rings around my party members when he breathed on me.

that one was annoying; I retreated and haven't gone back yet.
 

NoSoup4You

Golden Member
Feb 12, 2007
1,253
6
81
I have 35 hours in Inquisition and I'm almost done with the Hinterlands. Hurrah! I chose to side with the Templars but still haven't "closed the Rift once and for all", whatever that means. My characters are level 9-10, so I'm pretty sure I have a long way to go still.

Inquisition is a huge step in the right direction, although so far playing on "Hard" difficulty has been a total cake walk. I never even lose health in battles anymore on my sword/shield main character at level 10. The "guard" I generate is more than enough to keep any hp from ticking away... hopefully the game gets harder real soon. Maybe the fact I still haven't progressed the main story very far is to blame for how easy everything is, here's hoping at least!
 
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Udgnim

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2008
3,679
122
106
I have 35 hours in Inquisition and I'm almost done with the Hinterlands. Hurrah! I chose to side with the Templars but still haven't "closed the Rift once and for all", whatever that means. My characters are level 9-10, so I'm pretty sure I have a long way to go still.

Inquisition is a huge step in the right direction, although so far playing on "Hard" difficulty has been a total cake walk. I never even lose health in battles anymore on my sword/shield main character at level 10. The "guard" I generate is more than enough to keep any hp from ticking away... hopefully the game gets harder real soon. Maybe the fact I still haven't progressed the main story very far is to blame for how easy everything is, here's hoping at least!

do that mission soon

at level 12/13, I've upped difficulty to nightmare
 
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