Driver Heaven Smackdown

[GonzoDaGr8]

It just pains me to see someone destroy what I can't even afford. Actually, What I can't justify buying. My house is more important.. Still though.

 

[RealityTime]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: gravioli
I don't think he is wasting his own money. It was most likely a card that was donated by a manufacturer (the Gainward name is blurred out) for testing. If he wants to waste his own money fine, but destroying an item that was most likely donated isn't IMO....Unless of course they don't give a rat's butt about receiving future test items from manufacturers.

hmm.. is that really a gainward card? if so, someone ought to forward it to the manufacturer so they don't get any more heh..

unfortunately it seems gainward is no longer manufacturing vid cards.....

http://www.ncix.com/forums/ind...verclockid=0#msg664273

check the comments at bottom from the store's staff.

 

[ronnn]

Same as kiddie porn? Wow, I value my kids much more than a vid card that somebody else owns. Now that was a real dumb ass statement. I guess I should take this as an indicator that any real discussion is over and will leave it up to dh to destroy a vid card that all of us would like for art.

 

[DrMrLordX]

He's not destroying it for art's sake. He's doing it because it's his lame attempt at sophomoric humor. He's doing it to play to the ATI crowd that likes Driver Heaven(happily, the ATI crowd here seems to have better taste in entertainment).

In all reality, the sight of a video card being destroyed is rather dull. Can't he do anything more original with it?

I'd like to see more work done towards altering the vid card BIOS so that you could, oh, I dunno, boot your own OS on it or something. I mean, hell, it's got a fully functional GPU on their that could probably be used as a general purpose CPU. It's got tons of fast RAM. It's got a soft-moddable BIOS that you can hack for your own purposes. All it lacks is some sort of solid-state storage device, but you could probably load the entire OS on the harddrive of the computer in which the card is installed(Knoppix maybe?), boot the card from that, and then set up a ramdisk within the card's own video memory for normal operation.

I think this sort of thing has been done before in a limited fashion(people have exploited GPUs for additional computational power rather than using them for 3d rendering), but can you imagine running a seperate OS just on the card itself? That would be quite a spectacle. I'm sure it would be rather useless for any real graphics applications if you did this, but hey, if they're gonna wreck the card anyway, you may as well do something interesting with it while you're ruining it.

As far as Rollo's remarks are concerned, he is not likening the destruction of a video card to child pornography. What he is doing is ridiculing the notion that, if good art generates controversy, that any controversial act must therefore be art. In other words, just because it's controversial does not mean that it's art.

 

[Killrose]

I bet he blew it-up by overclocking it and the warranty is voided because he AS5'd it, so he's "getting rid of it" with much fanfare for website hits.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: DrMrLordX
He's not destroying it for art's sake. He's doing it because it's his lame attempt at sophomoric humor. He's doing it to play to the ATI crowd that likes Driver Heaven(happily, the ATI crowd here seems to have better taste in entertainment).

In all reality, the sight of a video card being destroyed is rather dull. Can't he do anything more original with it?

I'd like to see more work done towards altering the vid card BIOS so that you could, oh, I dunno, boot your own OS on it or something. I mean, hell, it's got a fully functional GPU on their that could probably be used as a general purpose CPU. It's got tons of fast RAM. It's got a soft-moddable BIOS that you can hack for your own purposes. All it lacks is some sort of solid-state storage device, but you could probably load the entire OS on the harddrive of the computer in which the card is installed(Knoppix maybe?), boot the card from that, and then set up a ramdisk within the card's own video memory for normal operation.

I think this sort of thing has been done before in a limited fashion(people have exploited GPUs for additional computational power rather than using them for 3d rendering), but can you imagine running a seperate OS just on the card itself? That would be quite a spectacle. I'm sure it would be rather useless for any real graphics applications if you did this, but hey, if they're gonna wreck the card anyway, you may as well do something interesting with it while you're ruining it.

As far as Rollo's remarks are concerned, he is not likening the destruction of a video card to child pornography. What he is doing is ridiculing the notion that, if good art generates controversy, that any controversial act must therefore be art. In other words, just because it's controversial does not mean that it's art.

I said one of the indicators, not the only indicator. As for likening the "controversy" caused by kiddie porn with this situation is specious at best. Why I needed to read the other kinky example is also beyond me. As I said previously not my idea of great art, but most artists don't cater to my taste. The guy is creating a video with his own card, like he must be inhuman or something. I tend to agree with killrose, would be a lot easier to burn a card that had no value.

 

[BenSkywalker]

As for likening the "controversy" caused by kiddie porn with this situation is specious at best.

As was your calling the destruction of a video card art.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Same as kiddie porn? Wow, I value my kids much more than a vid card that somebody else owns. Now that was a real dumb ass statement. I guess I should take this as an indicator that any real discussion is over and will leave it up to dh to destroy a vid card that all of us would like for art.

It's too bad your kid's dad can't understand what an analogy is. I was illustrating that although the "art" forms listed share the common element of being "controversial", they are not considered "good art", to refute your claim that "one of indicators of good art is creating controversy".

BTW- whose theory is it that good art is controversial? Ronnn's?

It stretches the term "art" pretty far to call filming the pointless destruction of property "art". By your definition, the video the kids took of themselves vandalizing a house that made national news is both "art", and perhaps "good art" because it was controversial. :roll:

I hope you're not passing this stuff on to your kids.

 

[HappyNic]

so is the video out yet? I really want to see it for some reason,, I mean I feel that if I don't watch it,, the 6800ultra would have die for nothing.

 

[Fern]

I know you have good intentions, but why provide a link to this silliness and draw attention to them?

They're obviously stupid attention whores. Don't link 'em. Don't encourage 'em.

Damn, I'd love to have a 6800U!

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Fern
I know you have good intentions, but why provide a link to this silliness and draw attention to them?

They're obviously stupid attention whores. Don't link 'em. Don't encourage 'em.

Damn, I'd love to have a 6800U!

They are great artists Fern, misunderstood because they have chosen to burn valuable video cards to convey their deep message!

As to why I posted this here, that is problematic:

On one hand, there are people here who post DH benchmarks to illsutrate their points, and I wanted to show the people here the mentality and bias of the people behind the benchmarks.

Your point about giving them the publicity they desired is valid, I suppose this is sort of like nazi rallies: If you decry them occurring, you're still informing people they are and perhaps giving them a larger audience.

Obviously I don't equate DH with the neo-nazis, or consider what they did 1/10000 as big of a deal as what the nazis used to do. (noted for Ronnn he so doesn't think I do as I used a comparison again)

 

[housecat]

thats how childish ati 'fanatics' are.. why cant ppl just admit that nvidia has the better cards out hands down?

ati was better in the 9700/9800 days... and pretty much was their first time ever to take the crown. i congratulate them. but my 9800 still had slowdowns in call of duty and other games that was MOST disappointing.. so i sold that sucker and actually went back to a GF4 for the driver quality.
i know the issue was fixed later, but my GF4 was actually faster than my 9800 pro in COD.. and i didnt care if it was a driver issue, i found it absolutely unacceptable for a Q3A based game..

why ppl cant just use whats best at the moment i dont know. that little baby needs to realize NV spanks his system all over with SLI support and the awesome NV40 chipset.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
Because it's only DH that ever wastes money :roll:
Look in your own back yards.

I don't have a backyard. If I did, I can assure you it would not be filled with 6800ultras.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: housecat
thats how childish ati 'fanatics' are.. why cant ppl just admit that nvidia has the better cards out hands down?

ati was better in the 9700/9800 days... and pretty much was their first time ever to take the crown. i congratulate them. but my 9800 still had slowdowns in call of duty and other games that was MOST disappointing.. so i sold that sucker and actually went back to a GF4 for the driver quality.
i know the issue was fixed later, but my GF4 was actually faster than my 9800 pro in COD.. and i didnt care if it was a driver issue, i found it absolutely unacceptable for a Q3A based game..

why ppl cant just use whats best at the moment i dont know. that little baby needs to realize NV spanks his system all over with SLI support and the awesome NV40 chipset.

Sheesh. Both brands have their pros/cons, it's shortsighted to say nVidia has better cards "hands down" implying some sort of total dominance.

They have a strong line with a more advanced feature set that is currently considered by many to be a bit better at the $2/3/400 price points, and about on par at $500.. SLI will be the only game in town for power users, but you can't deny the strong 24 bit DX9 performance of X800s at games like Far Cry and HL2. ATIs refresh parts will bolster their lineup to give users a lot of attractive choices in months to come.

I guess we all know I like the feature set of the nV40s better this time around, but this isn't the nVidia vs. XGI situation you imply.

 

[carldon]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: Pete

Originally posted by: wingm8
Rollo, who and where exactly are you quoting that he wants to destry the card because "its an nvidia card." He doesn't say that in his first post, maybe he does later on. Maybe you were kidding about that part of your post, I'm a little slow. Anyways, it would be a tremendous waste to destroy that card.

He does in the first few pages of that thread, unless he's since edited it out.

Actually he said the opposite, unless my reading skills are gone. I read that thread when it first opened and he said the card was extra as it was agp and testing was going to pcie. Specifically stated it was not picked because it was nvidia. I also had a post deleted, but never got banned. The banning happens when personal insults are involved (which should be no surprise). Driverheaven unlike Anantech does not tolerate any personal insults, except in political and flamezone.

Anyways as many mentioned it seems like a waste, but is his card and his choice. Not much different than the goofs here that left a 9700 sitting on the shelf, because they preferred nvidia drivers. I always will say, "give it to someone who will use it." But not like he is bombing some country and crippling children. Save the moral outrage for something worthwhile.

Nobody expects people to do charity beyond themselves, but the least one could do is give away what one dosent use anymore.

Good find, Rollo.

CD.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: carldon
Nobody expects people to do charity beyond themselves, but the least one could do is give away what one dosent use anymore.

Good find, Rollo.

CD.

The fact that given the option of:

1) Sell it and give the proceeds to charity
2) Raffle it off and give the proceeds to charity
3) Either of the above and keep it like the greedy bastard he is
4) Burn it

he chose #4 ... well, perhaps he should be holding the card on his head when he sets it ablaze.

To whom it may concern,

It has come to my attention that the website "Driver Heaven", a location for the reviewing and contrasting of various hardware products, has seen fit to destroy violently - and without reason - a very valuable piece of hardware.

http://www.driverheaven.net/sh...6&page=1&pp=15

As shown in the link above, the administrator and contributor to Driver Heaven "Veridian3" plans to destroy this card by the means listed in the poll, evidently because "its a geforce (sic)"

I have brought this to your attention because even when given the option of selling the card for charitable gain, or even personal profit, the Driver Heaven management has seen fit to instead destroy a sample card provided free of charge by a vendor for evaluation.

I strongly urge you to consider this fact in the future if and when sample hardware is requested by this website.

Thank you,

OEMs like emails. Especially when their free product gets set ablaze for no good reason.

- M4H

 

[housecat]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: housecat
thats how childish ati 'fanatics' are.. why cant ppl just admit that nvidia has the better cards out hands down?

ati was better in the 9700/9800 days... and pretty much was their first time ever to take the crown. i congratulate them. but my 9800 still had slowdowns in call of duty and other games that was MOST disappointing.. so i sold that sucker and actually went back to a GF4 for the driver quality.
i know the issue was fixed later, but my GF4 was actually faster than my 9800 pro in COD.. and i didnt care if it was a driver issue, i found it absolutely unacceptable for a Q3A based game..

why ppl cant just use whats best at the moment i dont know. that little baby needs to realize NV spanks his system all over with SLI support and the awesome NV40 chipset.

Sheesh. Both brands have their pros/cons, it's shortsighted to say nVidia has better cards "hands down" implying some sort of total dominance.

They have a strong line with a more advanced feature set that is currently considered by many to be a bit better at the $2/3/400 price points, and about on par at $500.. SLI will be the only game in town for power users, but you can't deny the strong 24 bit DX9 performance of X800s at games like Far Cry and HL2. ATIs refresh parts will bolster their lineup to give users a lot of attractive choices in months to come.

I guess we all know I like the feature set of the nV40s better this time around, but this isn't the nVidia vs. XGI situation you imply.

You wouldnt say that ATI pretty much had total dominance in the 9700/9800 days? I would.
I say this becuase if you used a FX product instead of one of those, you were definitely in the minority.
This is now very clear that from recent valve system querys that ATI last-gen high end have now toppled the GF4

I'd say the same for NV today. Theres ALWAYS a better choice.. always a loser and always a winner.
I think if you took a poll, NVs cards would gain the majority's vote over ATIs offerings today.

Just as (IMO) only a fool bought a FX over a 9700/9800.

Most of us have read that its possible that ATI's "lead" (if you can call it that, the only truley dominant ATI card is the X800XT) in HL2 might very likely be due to the fact that NV cards render it in full 32precision and ATI does it in its native 24..

its not really a "cheat" but definitely part of the package deal that ATI paid millions to Valve to get in on.

Not whining or flaming.. just stating the truth as I've read it.

Final note, of course "total domination" is a subjective term and lots wont admit to one product being superior, and its impossible to have utter 100% superiority (esp with all the bias and spinsters).. but we all know.. and generally agree on what is the superior buy or product in this marketplace.

You honestly wouldnt agree?

 

[BlackPear1]

Why is it so important that others agree with your analysis and choices? I'm generally happy w/my video card decisions (I have 2 each NV/ATI) and hope that others are satisfied with their choices too, whatever they are. It seems strange to see the discussion of consumer electronics elevated to near religious significance with argument about winners/losers, domination, conspracies, etc. Especially when good performance is available from both major companies - I agree completely with your statement that "its impossible to have utter 100% superiority". It seems that true domination can only be proven in the business of graphics, and the winner there is neither NV nor ATI.

 

[housecat]

its no different than ford vs chevy.. in America's capitalist society, companies compete.. people love following it.

if it didnt matter to people we wouldnt be obsessed with benchmarks. we wouldnt be reading AT.

if you arent at least interested in finding out who has the best product, you arent an "enthusiast" but a mere computer user.

i didnt know this was a new thing for so many.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by: housecat
You wouldnt say that ATI pretty much had total dominance in the 9700/9800 days? I would.
I say this becuase if you used a FX product instead of one of those, you were definitely in the minority.
This is now very clear that from recent valve system querys that ATI last-gen high end have now toppled the GF4

I'd say the same for NV today. Theres ALWAYS a better choice.. always a loser and always a winner.
I think if you took a poll, NVs cards would gain the majority's vote over ATIs offerings today.

Just as (IMO) only a fool bought a FX over a 9700/9800.

Most of us have read that its possible that ATI's "lead" (if you can call it that, the only truley dominant ATI card is the X800XT) in HL2 might very likely be due to the fact that NV cards render it in full 32precision and ATI does it in its native 24..

its not really a "cheat" but definitely part of the package deal that ATI paid millions to Valve to get in on.

Not whining or flaming.. just stating the truth as I've read it.

Final note, of course "total domination" is a subjective term and lots wont admit to one product being superior, and its impossible to have utter 100% superiority (esp with all the bias and spinsters).. but we all know.. and generally agree on what is the superior buy or product in this marketplace.

You honestly wouldnt agree?

I think you're making some pretty big statements, some of which you wouldn't be so confident about without hindsight (5700U, 5900XT offered fuller AF and better OGL performance), and some of which appear to be mistaken (B3D forums have HL2 5900 FP16 numbers, and while they're 30-50% faster than before, they're still 1/2 of a 9800P).

 

[housecat]

no one is mistaken, I was referring to the 6800/x800 series HL2 performance difference. i try to forget about the fx series personally.

do you really think its a big statement to say that the 6-series are the better choice now? i dont think that is only hindsight.. i'm talking about right here and now.

i think your peeing in the wind trying to say the x800s are the better overall choice.. i know no one is directly saying that.. because its not true!
if a poll was taken you'd see that the population is educated on this now as well.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: housecat
no one is mistaken, I was referring to the 6800/x800 series HL2 performance difference. i try to forget about the fx series personally.

do you really think its a big statement to say that the 6-series are the better choice now? i dont think that is only hindsight.. i'm talking about right here and now.

i think your peeing in the wind trying to say the x800s are the better overall choice.. i know no one is directly saying that.. because its not true!
if a poll was taken you'd see that the population is educated on this now as well.

I don't agree with your analysis.

The nV3X series wasn't as far behind as you make it out to be, and the nV4x at the high end isn't that far ahead.

I like nVidia as much as the next guy, but the people are not "fools" for choosing one card over another.
The closest you can come to this is the 6600GT/6800NU levels, and they're going to be facing more competition from ATIs new line.

9700/9800Pros had no "dominance" over the 5800U, let alone the 5900U. The nV3Xs were faster at some games, the R300s at others, same as it is now.

The only clear dominance is SLI.

<steps off soap box>

 

[housecat]

9700/9800Pros had no "dominance" over the 5800U, let alone the 5900U.

I will have to respectfully disagree with that. Frankly, I was a bit blown off my feet at that statement..

5800Ultra?? My good God man, that thing was HORRIBLE!
I have a friend who actually purchased a 5800 Ultra and he was really in the dumps about it for a long time (until he replaced it).

Dont take my word for it.. AT even remarks, ", and some individual elements of their pipelines in order to try and understand just what went wrong to spark NVIDIA's darkest 12 months. "

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: housecat

9700/9800Pros had no "dominance" over the 5800U, let alone the 5900U.

I will have to respectfully disagree with that. Frankly, I was a bit blown off my feet at that statement..

5800Ultra?? My good God man, that thing was HORRIBLE!
I have a friend who actually purchased a 5800 Ultra and he was really in the dumps about it for a long time (until he replaced it).

Dont take my word for it.. AT even remarks, ", and some individual elements of their pipelines in order to try and understand just what went wrong to spark NVIDIA's darkest 12 months. "

I had three 5800s, and a 9700P and 9800P. I know how they work, and don't want to spend the time linking you to old benchmarks.

The fact of the matter is that at any playable setting, the 5800U was pretty close to the 9700P. Not quite as good, but the only difference you'd notice in use was the noise. Does your friend still have the Ultra?

 

[Pete]

Ah, the GF6 in HL2. Well, I'm waiting on benchmarks, but I was under the impression that the GF6 won't gain as much speed switching to FP16. Apparently RightMark benches at Digit-Life have proven my memory incorrect, though.

I agree that nV has most major retail price points buttoned up this gen ($200, $300, and $400, but the X800XT looks slightly better at $500, IMO).

I think myself and others are reacting to the term dominance, which is obviously a matter of interpretation. Clearly ATi outperformed nV in terms of DX9 (excluding the 5200) sales the last gen, mainly on the basis of anticipated (and realized) greater DX9 performance. This gen seems to show nV with a slight edge in overall benchmarks and sales so far. The true next gen should be interesting, especially if ATi moves to unified shaders with only FP32 precision, whereas nV stays with separate pixel and vertex shaders with FP16/32 precisions.