Duke lacrosse case

Heifetz

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
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It seems to me that some strippers were hired, and claimed that they were raped. DNA tests were taken and results showed that none of the lacrosse players were involved. All the evidence is circumstantial, and yet, the Lacrosse coach resigned, the president of Duke suspended the entire team and canceled the season, there is a lot of outrage over the handling of this case, and people claiming that this is a manifestation of existing racial tensions.

It seems the only thing that the players are guilty of at this point is making the bad judgement of hiring some strippers (which a lot of college frat boys do in other schools as well). But somehow this has turned into some sort of racial problem because the strippers are black and the players are white. Am I missing something here, because it seems to me that people are just being opportunistic and blowing up the situation for their own agendas.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: Heifetz
It seems to me that some strippers were hired, and claimed that they were raped. DNA tests were taken and results showed that none of the lacrosse players were involved. All the evidence is circumstantial, and yet, the Lacrosse coach resigned, the president of Duke suspended the entire team and canceled the season, there is a lot of outrage over the handling of this case, and people claiming that this is a manifestation of existing racial tensions.

It seems the only thing that the players are guilty of at this point is making the bad judgement of hiring some strippers (which a lot of college frat boys do in other schools as well). But somehow this has turned into some sort of racial problem because the strippers are black and the players are white. Am I missing something here, because it seems to me that people are just being opportunistic and blowing up the situation for their own agendas.

Three strippers were hired. One filed a rape complaint. She was black. She claimed she was raped/sodimized and beaten by three white men at the party.

There was no DNA recovered. (other than DNA recovered in the bathroom that belonged to the two men who live in the house)
There was no trace of latex or any other indication that a condom was used in the attack.
The defense claims it has photos of the stripper at the party before she started dancing that shows the bruises she claims were inflicted by the men.

It looks like a woman made an accusation and the entire community knee-jerk reacted before any type of investigation had even had a chance to begin. Duke is an "elite" institution in a relatively lower income area so there was probably some have/have not demagogery (sp) playing out.

I would imagine the coach was asked ot resign because, crime or no crime, the incident was a disgrace and an embarrassment to the school. It's his team and his players and their actions reflect poorly on him.

The team is suspended for the same reasons. Too bad they don't play basketball eh?

All that having been said... the case is still open. There was a time when prosecutors didn't have DNA to convict people of these crimes. Some sexual assaults do not result in ejaculation, thus, no DNA. So we'll just have to wait and see. No DNA does not mean that no crime was committed.
 

BrownTown

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2005
5,314
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the reason there is such an outcry is because it involves a black woman alegadly raped by white men. Everytime a white person is accused of a crime against a black person suddenly it becomes a racist thing and everyone goes completely bezserk and overreacts.
 

chuckywang

Lifer
Jan 12, 2004
20,133
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Originally posted by: BrownTown
the reason there is such an outcry is because it involves a black woman alegadly raped by white men. Everytime a white person is accused of a crime against a black person suddenly it becomes a racist thing and everyone goes completely bezserk and overreacts.

Also class relations. The white guys are privileged, the black girl was not. Also gown/town relations. Duke and Durham don't have the best relaionship.

So there you go, all the makings of a juicy story:
sex, gender, race, class.

Go here for a 1000+ response thread about this on a Duke message board. May need to register.
 

railer

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2000
1,552
69
91
Now, if a white woman had accused a black man of a crime, and ALL the black men on the team had been rounded up for DNA testing.......you would have had a riot on your hands that would have made the Rodney King riots look like a food fight at Burger King.
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Nation of Islam, the whole kit and kaboodle. 1000's dead. Mayhem for weeks. National Guard called in. But since it's just a bunch of white guys at Duke no one cares.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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It's not as cut and dry as the defense lawyers claim:

1) Even boorish behavior doesn't come close to explaining the email sent by one of the players after the show.

A lacrosse player's e-mail rant about killing strippers and cutting their skin off in his Duke University dorm room has started a chain reaction resulting in his coach's resignation, the season's cancellation and an internal probe into the university's response to alleged violence by athletes.
---
On Wednesday, authorities unsealed documents from a search warrant for McFadyen's residence, stating that less than two hours after the alleged rape, McFadyen sent an e-mail saying he was planning an encore to "tonights (sic) show." The message, addressed "To whom it may concern," said, "however there will be no nudity."

"I plan on killing the bitches as soon as the(y) walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off," wrote McFadyen, a 6-foot-6, 225-pound Atlantic Coast Conference honor roll player who was one of five Duke players from the exclusive Delbarton School in Morristown, N.J., adding in vulgar terms that he would find the act sexually satisfying. The e-mail was signed with McFadyen's jersey number, 41.

2) Duke received so many complaints from neighbors about activities at that residence, the university bought the house and was going to make the players move next semester.

3) The woman actually ID'd the three players that allegedly attacked her so there's something interesting in the fact that Nifong didn't pick these guys up but has not dropped the investigation.

4) A lot of details are missing from the "official" account. My guess is that Nifong (DA) is waiting for these guys to slip up or for one of them to break ranks and give their version of what happened. At the moment, they aren't talking details just denial of HER account. It's the right thing to do from a legal standpoint but clearly there's more to this story than they want to tell.

I'm on the fence for this one. I'm not surprised by the negative DNA b/c what kind of idiot would have unprotected sex with a stripper? But allegedly she clawed at one (or more) of the guys and in the process dislodged a couple of her fake nails; which were subsequently recovered by the police. If there's no DNA there as well . . . sketchy . . . very sketchy.
 

tommywishbone

Platinum Member
May 11, 2005
2,149
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Originally posted by: railer
Now, if a white woman had accused a black man of a crime, and ALL the black men on the team had been rounded up for DNA testing.......you would have had a riot on your hands that would have made the Rodney King riots look like a food fight at Burger King.
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Nation of Islam, the whole kit and kaboodle. 1000's dead. Mayhem for weeks. National Guard called in. But since it's just a bunch of white guys at Duke no one cares.

Correctomundo

 

kylef

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: Heifetz
...But somehow this has turned into some sort of racial problem because the strippers are black and the players are white. Am I missing something here, because it seems to me that people are just being opportunistic and blowing up the situation for their own agendas.

In the interest of full disclosure: I went to Duke, graduated in 2000. I did not play lacrosse, however.

The basic problem here is that Durham is a poor, southern, majority-black city. Duke, on the other hand, is mostly white, wealthy, and about 50% of the students are from the Northeast. The two entities just don't see eye to eye on most issues.

Even while I was at the school, there was a huge amount of tension between the school and the city. Basically, the city was always complaining about something. "Duke should pay more taxes to the city" (it's a long story, but Duke doesn't pay property taxes to Durham). "Entry-level union wages for school workers weren't good enough." "Duke students don't ever leave the campus and interact with the community." (This last complaint always made me angry, since Duke University at the time had some of the best community volunteer student participation around.)

On campus, the perception of Durham wasn't much better. Periodically there would be reports on campus of students being mugged or robbed at gunpoint (specifically on East campus, where this lacrosse incident occurred), and typically the perpetrator would be a young black man from Durham. On several occasions, I remember school newspaper editorials about how students were "angry that they couldn't feel safe walking around parts of campus at night." In my opinion, these types of statements were always unfounded because I could count on one hand the number of incidents that occurred during my undergrad years. But this perception of the city as "unsafe" was fairly commonplace.

The community's perception of Duke students really comes from a few things, in my opinion. First, there is the admissions difficulty of the school, which effectively places it out of reach as a college choice to the vast majority of Durham residents. So few locals feel connected to the school because they didn't attend, and neither do their friends or family. In fact, the most likely relationship they have to the school is that of EMPLOYEE, because Duke University was by far the largest employer in Durham. Part of the low opinion of Duke students was probably started from the hundreds of groundskeepers, food service workers, janitors, and other service workers who interact with the students every day and resent their seemingly happy-go-lucky lifestyle. (Honestly, who amongst us with a daily job isn't envious of college student freedoms?) After all, most Duke students are not part of work-study programs, so they go to class, study, and pursue extracurricular activities.

In any event, relations have never been good. And when this incident hit the press, the community probably saw it as an affirmation of their underlying perception of Duke students as "white, arrogant, racist, and irresponsible." And couple this with black communities' tendency to react strongly to perceived injustice, and you have a recipe for trouble.

The DA in this case has done absolutely NOTHING to calm the community's fears and stem the racial tension. Whether 3 of the players are actually guilty or not (which at this point it's pretty clear the DA doesn't actually know), district attorney Nifong has publicly stated his belief that the lacrosse players are guilty on several occasions. He could have urged caution with a "wait until the investigation is complete" approach, but he has chosen not to.

Part of this is undoubtedly caused by the fact that the district attorney is up for re-election next month (in May). So he really wants to make sure that the Durham community thinks he is on their side, and doesn't take up the side of some rich white boys from the Northeast. In fact, this is the first case that he has taken personally as a prosecutor in 5 years. (And trust me, rapes in Durham are not uncommon, so this is special treatment.)

Anyway, those are my current thoughts. It may turn out that there is evidence which proves these 3 players are guilty, but nothing I have seen yet indicates that they are. The fact that the DNA evidence came back negative (after Nifong originally told the press that it would "implicate several team members") is certainly starting to point the finger at an irresponsible rape allegation made by an intoxicated and untrustworthy female.

Edit: added quotation marks I forgot.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Originally posted by: tommywishbone
Originally posted by: railer
Now, if a white woman had accused a black man of a crime, and ALL the black men on the team had been rounded up for DNA testing.......you would have had a riot on your hands that would have made the Rodney King riots look like a food fight at Burger King.
Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Nation of Islam, the whole kit and kaboodle. 1000's dead. Mayhem for weeks. National Guard called in. But since it's just a bunch of white guys at Duke no one cares.

Correctomundo

No one would have rioted for a group of accused black males where 1/3 had arrests/citations in the past year, the residence was notorious, most were underaged drinkers, one distributed an email describing behavior that makes Saddam look like Gandhi, and NONE have come forward to say what really happened . . . but they ALL hired lawyers.

Kylef didn't intend to but actually highlights the myopia of the typical dook student. Durham is NOT majority black. By the last census it was 45% white 43% black. The city is southern but is by no means poor. While many of the blacks in Durham are indeed quite low income to describe it was a poor, majority-black city of the South is pure ignorance . . . but that's not uncommon amongst dook students.

Dook is the county's largest employer but arguably only WalMart pays a lower median wage. It's pretty tough on a community/county when the largest land owner doesn't pay property taxes but has an endowment of several billion.

A select group of Duke students do tremendous community work. I mean outstanding programs that are student-initiated, student-run, and often enduring well after they graduate. The rest are busy getting drunk, camping out for tickets to the next BCE, boinking themselves in Perkins, or in their dorms producing quality video.

One of the most intriguing elements is that IF the lacrosse players are innocent of rape . . . this episode and the information that's come out subsequently indeed paints a portrait of arrogance, irresponsibility, and at least a hint of racism.

As for Nifong, he's not going to make anybody happy . . . in much the same manner that Duke cannot possibly make anybody happy. Nifong has suspicion based on a witness and at least some additional physical evidence. But he's at least a half-decent prosecutor b/c he's not bringing charges with what he has in hand. Naturally, he's looking for more but probably used the early blitzkrieg to get one of the accused (or witness) to turn on the others. Contrary, to kylef's claim Nifong spent most of today trying to calm the community and stem racial tension. Regardless, he thinks these guys did "something" and that's why he's on the prowl.

The election angle matters but not as much as kylef implies. Nifong didn't have a strong challenger. Further, he would look much worse with a weak case falling apart than rushing to issue charges. The only way his current approach would have hurt him would be if he didn't take on this case personally.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

but they ALL hired lawyers.

Yeah, people should not have any sort of legal counsel when being accused of a heinous crime.

Curious, I guess language on your planet is composed entirely of dependent clauses?
 

kylef

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
No one would have rioted for a group of accused black males where 1/3 had arrests/citations in the past year, the residence was notorious, most were underaged drinkers, one distributed an email describing behavior that makes Saddam look like Gandhi, and NONE have come forward to say what really happened . . . but they ALL hired lawyers.
Your facts are deliberately skewed, but I will dissect them anyway.

1. "1/3 had arrests/citations in the past year"

*Some* of the lacrosse team players have been cited for "public intoxication", "public urination", and "providing alcohol to minors." All of these are (unfortunately?) pretty standard frat-house stuff. The point is, NONE of these activites were in the least bit violent.

2. "the residence was notorious"

What exactly do you mean by "notorious"? Several houses around the East campus have been used for parties for years. If that makes them "notorious" to neighbors, so what? Is that some kind of a crime? "Oh no, they're NOTORIOUS partiers!" :roll:

3. "most were underaged drinkers"

Geez. If you were not an underaged drinker, you represent one of about 10% of our entire society.

4. "one distributed an email describing behavior that makes Saddam look like Gandhi"

Now we're basing people's guilt on admittedly tasteless e-mail for which we don't even understand the context? Newsflash: people say mean/stupid/ignorant things every day, but it doesn't make them guilty of a violent felony.

5. "NONE have come forward to say what really happened"

Entirely false. According to Newsweek and several other news sources, several members of the lacrosse team present at the party cooperated with police the very next day and even volunteered to take lie detector tests, but the offer was rebuffed by the Durham police department for reasons unknown. The DA has not released any of the statements which these players provided before they hired lawyers.

6. "but they ALL hired lawyers"

If you were accused of participating in a conspiracy to commit rape, served with a subpoena to hand over your DNA, and you did not retain an attorney, you need to have your head examined...

 

kylef

Golden Member
Jan 25, 2000
1,430
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Kylef didn't intend to but actually highlights the myopia of the typical dook student.
Your puerile spelling of Duke is a telling indicator of your maturity. Let me guess, you went to another ACC school? :roll:

Durham is NOT majority black. By the last census it was 45% white 43% black.

Squabbling over a 1.7% difference is pretty darn silly, especially when the 1990 census data was different (although I can't find a link to it anywhere).

In any case, if you knew anything about Durham, you would know that if you drew a circle around city hall with a radius of about 3 miles (which includes both the Duke and NCCU campuses) you would find that the racial makeup is overwhelmingly black (probably closer to 70% than 50%). *These* are the people who are up in arms about this case, not the people who live in the country-club suburbs.

Dook is the county's largest employer but arguably only WalMart pays a lower median wage.
This statement is demonstrably false. You just need to look at the jobs posted prominently around campus, including wage info. When I was a freshman in 1996, the *starting* salary for a janitor at Duke with no experience was something like $9 an hour. With more years of experience, the pay scale for janitors went all the way up to $25 an hour. And I'm willing to bet wages have gone up significantly since then. Many of the workers are also unionized, and Duke is bound by labor contracts to employ certain numbers of union workers.

I'll relate a story about Duke union labor protectionism. In 1998, the students were polled regarding what fast food establishment they wanted to replace Burger King, whose contract had expired. Overwhelmingly they chose Wendy's. But after extensive negotiations, the Wendy's deal fell through because the union would not agree to the Wendy's contract, and the union threatened to strike if the University let Wendy's hire non-union workers. This was the first wake-up call many students had to union politics. Instead, a no-name burger chain was installed in its place which subsequently lost so much money that it had to be closed down. This left the restaurant space in the student union, one of the more popular eating areas on campus, empty for more than a year. Nice job, union! No, the students obviously didn't starve, but it was a tangible example of union waste that we had to walk past every day.

It's pretty tough on a community/county when the largest land owner doesn't pay property taxes but has an endowment of several billion.
Trust me, you don't know what you're talking about regarding the property tax situation, and I'm not going to debate it here. No matter what I say, you will continue to believe whatever lies you've been told anyway.

Contrary, to kylef's claim Nifong spent most of today trying to calm the community and stem racial tension. Regardless, he thinks these guys did "something" and that's why he's on the prowl.
Give me a break! What Nifong did today at NCCU was more akin to a pep rally than any attempt at calm! Haven't you seen the video footage? "This case is not going away!" (Roaring cheers and applause)
 

hehatedme

Member
Jul 10, 2005
72
0
0
50 years ago, if I a black male was within 10 miles of a rape of a white woman, he would have been lynched. I don't think its so bad that some college kids can't throw a ball around for the rest of the season.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Heifetz
It seems to me that some strippers were hired, and claimed that they were raped. DNA tests were taken and results showed that none of the lacrosse players were involved. All the evidence is circumstantial, and yet, the Lacrosse coach resigned, the president of Duke suspended the entire team and canceled the season, there is a lot of outrage over the handling of this case, and people claiming that this is a manifestation of existing racial tensions.

It seems the only thing that the players are guilty of at this point is making the bad judgement of hiring some strippers (which a lot of college frat boys do in other schools as well). But somehow this has turned into some sort of racial problem because the strippers are black and the players are white. Am I missing something here, because it seems to me that people are just being opportunistic and blowing up the situation for their own agendas.

Sex is bad.

You haven't gotten that message yet???
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
One thing people are forgetting is that DNA evidence doesn't just come from unprotected sex. It also comes from hair samples, which are common when you are having sex. Furthermore, they apparently found no evidence of lubricant, or latex.

To round this out, they suspect the other stripper of making the phone call that started the whole racial slur issue, instead of the passer-by scenario that was first thought to have happened. Not to mention the pictures with timestamps that show she was already bruised when she got there.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,833
2,620
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What we are seeing is a very public meltdown of a criminal case that the prosecutor was boxed into grandstanding a bit too early because of intense public pressure. Admittedly, the lacrosse players' behavior was on the very outer margins of acceptable, even for jock/frat rat types, but much has been blown way out of proportion. The infamous email, for example, is pretty much cribbed from the movie American Psycho, which is apparently a great favorite of that team. A stupid but harmless email was recast showing this was a team of Hannibal Lectors. ALL 46 white members of the lacrosse team submitted to the court ordered DNA tests and ALL have been excluded.

Whoseyerdaddy, is there a factual basis for your statement that no semen was recovered? What I heard on the news was that semen was recovered, but that it was excluded. There are supposedly also pictures taken by the partiers that establish the girl was bruised when she came.

Admittedly this is a real bad situation, but not what it was originally protrayed as. It's an excellent example of why we have trials in a court of law, rather than by lynch mobs or public opinion.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Heifetz
It seems to me that some strippers were hired, and claimed that they were raped. DNA tests were taken and results showed that none of the lacrosse players were involved. All the evidence is circumstantial, and yet, the Lacrosse coach resigned, the president of Duke suspended the entire team and canceled the season, there is a lot of outrage over the handling of this case, and people claiming that this is a manifestation of existing racial tensions.

It seems the only thing that the players are guilty of at this point is making the bad judgement of hiring some strippers (which a lot of college frat boys do in other schools as well). But somehow this has turned into some sort of racial problem because the strippers are black and the players are white. Am I missing something here, because it seems to me that people are just being opportunistic and blowing up the situation for their own agendas.

Three strippers were hired. One filed a rape complaint. She was black. She claimed she was raped/sodimized and beaten by three white men at the party.

There was no DNA recovered. (other than DNA recovered in the bathroom that belonged to the two men who live in the house)
There was no trace of latex or any other indication that a condom was used in the attack.
The defense claims it has photos of the stripper at the party before she started dancing that shows the bruises she claims were inflicted by the men.

It looks like a woman made an accusation and the entire community knee-jerk reacted before any type of investigation had even had a chance to begin. Duke is an "elite" institution in a relatively lower income area so there was probably some have/have not demagogery (sp) playing out.

I would imagine the coach was asked ot resign because, crime or no crime, the incident was a disgrace and an embarrassment to the school. It's his team and his players and their actions reflect poorly on him.

The team is suspended for the same reasons. Too bad they don't play basketball eh?

All that having been said... the case is still open. There was a time when prosecutors didn't have DNA to convict people of these crimes. Some sexual assaults do not result in ejaculation, thus, no DNA. So we'll just have to wait and see. No DNA does not mean that no crime was committed.


Some additional information. She was unable to identify her alleged attackers so DNA was taken from 46 of the team members. Once no DNA was found she changed her statement and said she can identify her attackers.

In recent years she has stolen the keys from a client and used the keyse to enter his home. Thus, making her an undocumented border rather than someone who illegally entered his home. The police caught her after the car chase entered with her crashing into a police car.

According to Jesse Jackson the lack of DNA evidence is immaterial. I assume he is taking a stance that DNA evidence should no longer be used to free anyone who was convicted of a crime and incorrectly found guilty. Quite a turnaround for Jackson. Jackson claims this is a case of racism and I'm not sure anyone disputes his admission.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
The DA was shown this morning stating she did not ID 3 people, that was a rumor that wasnt true.

Without the DNA evidence how do they convict anybody? Unless you are going to put all 46 players on trial? I have a feeling the longer this plays out the more bogus this is going to end up being.

 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
0
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On Wednesday, authorities unsealed documents from a search warrant for McFadyen's residence, stating that less than two hours after the alleged rape, McFadyen sent an e-mail saying he was planning an encore to "tonights (sic) show." The message, addressed "To whom it may concern," said, "however there will be no nudity."

"I plan on killing the bitches as soon as the(y) walk in and proceeding to cut their skin off," wrote McFadyen, a 6-foot-6, 225-pound Atlantic Coast Conference honor roll player who was one of five Duke players from the exclusive Delbarton School in Morristown, N.J., adding in vulgar terms that he would find the act sexually satisfying. The e-mail was signed with McFadyen's jersey number, 41.
Proof of guilt . . . nope. Proof of mindset . . . definitely.

15 of 47 players had been arrested or issued citations but I guess if you prefer some instead of 1/3 I won't quibble.

After the attack, police found four red polished fingernails in the house in addition to her makeup bag, cell phone and identification, the newly released document says.
Mark Fuhrman is in Montana and Johnny Cochran is dead so unless Durham PD took lessons . . . that's some interesting physical evidence.

Underaged drinking isn't that big of a deal. Unfortunately, you do some things while intoxicated that you wouldn't otherwise. Some people are also inclined to behave in an aberrant manner when they are in a group as opposed to alone. Just more circumstantial evidence that this may not have been just a rowdy party.

It's not the Durham PD or DA's responsibility to give the accused's account. I've seen the lawyers for the accused in multiple settings. They have NEVER given a moment by moment account of what happened. They just claim that no sexual assault took place. That's probably good CYA but clearly they are hiding from a case where they allege: 1) nothing illegal happened, 2) definitely no rape, 3) definitely no assault, 4) DNA evidence does not implicate, 5) accuser's account is internally inconsistent. The legal representation for the accused has definitely gone on the PR offensive, yet no details??

You are a tool kylef. Durham is NOT less black in 2000 than in 1990 except to the extent the Hispanic population in the city and county has grown substantially over that decade. Around Duke (but not necessarily NCCU) there's plenty of middle and upper middle neighborhoods around East Campus. The closest really bad neighborhood is Walltown and its nothing like Few Gardens close to Central. The Hillside neighborhood is certainly different from Jordan but that's an issue for NCCU not Duke which isn't close to either one.

I will definitely shed a tear for your union story. That hardship year for the Bryan Center is clearly proof that unions are evil. I mean you guys actually had one less establishment to eat at . . . OMG!

Did you say something about dook's property tax? Expansion . . . yes . . . oh you want us to pay taxes?!
Retail use supporting the academic mission of the university, such as student restaurants or a campus bookstore, is appropriate. But the partnership neighborhoods voted to oppose retail on Central Campus that goes beyond academic retail, such as general clothing or jewelry stores. This sort of retail would have an unfair advantage over nearby businesses because they wouldn't have to pay property taxes and would undermine the surrounding community.
I guess you don't read the Indy now that you're back in Jersey.

With Duke, don't listen to what they say, look at what they do. Throughout the retail discussions, Duke repeatedly claimed they care deeply about the Durham community. Yet, Duke got out of $596,000 in impact fees for their new construction and paid $847,000 less than requested to help Durham cover local costs (figures represent what the city said Duke should pay minus what Duke eventually paid). At the same time, Duke had no problem finding $500,000 to buy iPods for all incoming students.

Duke contributes far less than Princeton, Harvard and Brown universities pay to their host cities. This money could have funded important projects in our community.
Like a good neighbor . . .

 
Feb 10, 2000
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Originally posted by: Genx87

Without the DNA evidence how do they convict anybody? Unless you are going to put all 46 players on trial? I have a feeling the longer this plays out the more bogus this is going to end up being.

DNA is not a factor in most convictions for rape or murder. The players' defense attorneys have been remarkably successful in convincing the public that DNA is a hard-and-fast requirement in rape cases, when that simply isn't true. The larger issue you point to, though, is a valid one: if she can't identify her specific rapists, then by definition it will be all but impossible to prove any one of the players guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I don't think it's at all clear at this point what happened. I imagine if the accuser fabricated her allegations, that will become clear sooner rather than later - otherwise, one or more of the players will likely end up in a courtroom. That does not necessarily imply they'll be convicted of anything, however.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: kylef

Give me a break! What Nifong did today at NCCU was more akin to a pep rally than any attempt at calm! Haven't you seen the video footage? "This case is not going away!" (Roaring cheers and applause)

I also heard him being aggressively drilled on why no arrests had yet been made.
 

Chiller2

Senior member
Aug 19, 2005
286
0
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I find it hard to believe that if she struggled as hard as she clamed (broke four fingernails) that there was NO DNA from her attackers and if there was DNA it did not mach any of the players. Does that mean she was not raped at the party? No, it just means it wasn't Duke lacrosse players that did it.
 
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