Duke lacrosse case

[ExpertNovice]

BaliBabyDoc,

If the email is true, as opposed to "fake-but-true", then the individual needs to be <self censored>.

It would be amazing that four polished fingernails yielded no DNA, if lost during a struggle.

In case you are wondering why violent crimes such as rape (a sexual preference) are out of hand reread your own statement.

Underaged drinking isn't that big of a deal.

When society condones and excuses immmoral behavior then immoral behavior increases.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
BaliBabyDoc,

If the email is true, as opposed to "fake-but-true", then the individual needs to be <self censored>.

It would be amazing that four polished fingernails yielded no DNA, if lost during a struggle.

In case you are wondering why violent crimes such as rape (a sexual preference) are out of hand reread your own statement.

Underaged drinking isn't that big of a deal.

When society condones and excuses immmoral behavior then immoral behavior increases.

LOL, I started drinking at 12 or 13 and haven't raped anybody yet. You can't use alcohol as an excuse for raping someone.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
BaliBabyDoc,

If the email is true, as opposed to "fake-but-true", then the individual needs to be <self censored>.

It would be amazing that four polished fingernails yielded no DNA, if lost during a struggle.

In case you are wondering why violent crimes such as rape (a sexual preference) are out of hand reread your own statement.

Underaged drinking isn't that big of a deal.

When society condones and excuses immmoral behavior then immoral behavior increases.

LOL, I started drinking at 12 or 13 and haven't raped anybody yet. You can't use alcohol as an excuse for raping someone.

Well that explains a lot

I kid I kid

 

[kylef]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You are a tool kylef.

People who feel threatened by ideas always resort to ad-hominem attacks. It's pretty obvious that no one here takes you seriously.

Let me give you some advice: if you ever expect others to listen to your opinions, you need to learn to control the bitterness and resentment you feel towards specific groups of people. Your loathing for Duke makes your entire argument petty and shrill.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: kylef

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
You are a tool kylef.

People who feel threatened by ideas always resort to ad-hominem attacks. It's pretty obvious that no one here takes you seriously.

Let me give you some advice: if you ever expect others to listen to your opinions, you need to learn to control the bitterness and resentment you feel towards specific groups of people. Your loathing for Duke makes your entire argument petty and shrill.

I like it when the students dismiss themselves. Good job. For homework, brush up on Durham demographics and town-gown relations (particular emphasis on tax policy and impact fees). Google is your friend that way you can avoid relying on truthiness.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
BaliBabyDoc,

If the email is true, as opposed to "fake-but-true", then the individual needs to be <self censored>.

It would be amazing that four polished fingernails yielded no DNA, if lost during a struggle.

In case you are wondering why violent crimes such as rape (a sexual preference) are out of hand reread your own statement.

Underaged drinking isn't that big of a deal.

When society condones and excuses immmoral behavior then immoral behavior increases.

LOL, I started drinking at 12 or 13 and haven't raped anybody yet. You can't use alcohol as an excuse for raping someone.

I assume you accidentally quoted me. If it wasn't an accident tell me where:
1. I condoned rape
2. Said drinking caused people to commit rape
3. Said drinking excused rape or any other crime.

 

[conehead433]

The accused woman has apparently identified one of her attackers who was a member of the team. And he wasn't even at the party. Hopefully the DA will actually figure something out before he indicts.

 

[Thump553]

I briefly watched a panel of talking heads on Faux News about this. What came out of interest was that this prosecutor is engaged in a tough re-election campaign.

They also played a tape of a telephone conversation between one of the first responding officers and his dispatcher. The officer reported that she was so drunk she was having dificulty standing.

Cases like this should be tried in a court of law, not in the media, but I, for one, am growing deeply suspicious of the prosecution's case and their motives for continuing to press ahead on it.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: conehead433
The accused woman has apparently identified one of her attackers who was a member of the team. And he wasn't even at the party. Hopefully the DA will actually figure something out before he indicts.

That's certainly interesting . . . got a source?

 

[AZReDWiNG]

I don't think it really matters to people here, but I play lacrosse and this scandal has rocked the community. Duke was supposed to be in the top 4, but their program has been ruined. It sucks because even if the investigation ceases with nothing found (which it will -- the DNA tests proved negative), the season already has been canceled, Pressler (an amazing coach) has already resigned, and the bad PR for lacrosse already given.

A team around here tried to fundraise recently. Many were basically told, "I don't support rapists, sorry."

Why can baseball players take steroids but that not reflect on high school programs? Same with basketball (Bryant's sexual harassment case) and football (Vikings "Love Boat"). Bunch o' fkn hypocrites.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

^^As a former lax player (high school) and fan, I understand where you are coming from.

This source isn't exactly impartial but the DNA findings they relay are curious . . .dook bball site.

In the latest bit of news about the Duke lacrosse mess, after the 911 call from Krogers, the police who showed up reported that the woman who was allegedly raped was "passed-out drunk."

However, they did not smell alcohol on her and had to force her out of the car and were planning to put her in a 24 hour holding cell.

There are two accounts which are sharply different.

That's sort of interesting but not as much as this one.

One thing which we had missed earlier was that while none of the attackers DNA was found on or in the alleged victim, none of her DNA was found in the bathroom either. Given the violence of the alleged attack, it's remarkable that nothing - no semen, no pubic hairs, no saliva, no blood, no skin under the nails - was found.

My understanding is that HER nails were found in the bathroom but yet there was no DNA on them . . . not even hers. Granted, I haven't seen the source being cited by DBR so maybe its just another aspect of a PR campaign.

 

[ExpertNovice]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
^^As a former lax player (high school) and fan, I understand where you are coming from.

This source isn't exactly impartial but the DNA findings they relay are curious . . .dook bball site.

In the latest bit of news about the Duke lacrosse mess, after the 911 call from Krogers, the police who showed up reported that the woman who was allegedly raped was "passed-out drunk."

However, they did not smell alcohol on her and had to force her out of the car and were planning to put her in a 24 hour holding cell.

There are two accounts which are sharply different.

That's sort of interesting but not as much as this one.

One thing which we had missed earlier was that while none of the attackers DNA was found on or in the alleged victim, none of her DNA was found in the bathroom either. Given the violence of the alleged attack, it's remarkable that nothing - no semen, no pubic hairs, no saliva, no blood, no skin under the nails - was found.

My understanding is that HER nails were found in the bathroom but yet there was no DNA on them . . . not even hers. Granted, I haven't seen the source being cited by DBR so maybe its just another aspect of a PR campaign.

You have introduced new info that I have not read before. You also very nicely point out that there are seemingly too many inconsistencies.

One additional report that I heard tonight was that pictures were taken that showed she came to the ?party? having already been beaten. The time stamped pictures could have had the time stamp faked but if she was beaten so badly and too drunk to stand after the ?party? then the pictures must have been taken before the ?party.?

Another point is that no semen was found but also no latex was found.

With those two points plus her inability to identify the alleged attackers so 46 of 47 players had their DNA tested. It looks real suspicious. Of course after the DNA tests and Jesse Jackson showed up THEN she could suddenly identify her attackers.

At this point I?m inclined to believe the team over her. Of course, there are other possibilities so we need to wait to see what new facts come to light. Too bad Jackson needs more money and is out to get another shakedown under his belt.

 

[classy]

This womans color has nothing to do with it. This is Duke we are talking about. One of the most prestigous colleges in the nation. Any woman who claimed to be raped by a bunch of men is going to garner huge attention. At this point I don't know what to think, but this not the first time these young men have had problems. Folks apparently have been complaining about their behavior for awhile.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: classy
This womans color has nothing to do with it. This is Duke we are talking about. One of the most prestigous colleges in the nation. Any woman who claimed to be raped by a bunch of men is going to garner huge attention. At this point I don't know what to think, but this not the first time these young men have had problems. Folks apparently have been complaining about their behavior for awhile.

Everything you've said is true but the internal and external agitators have created a frenzy that is feeding upon itself. A lot of people are at fault but IMO the best intermediate outcome is for this thing to go to trial . . . quickly.
1) The unindicted players will gain a degree of "relief by unassociation" if not clear exoneration.
2) Despite the expense and personal disruption of a felony trial, the 1-3 guys charged will get a very public exoneration . . . if innocent.
3) Given #2 DukeU's actions will be viewed in a different light by reasonable people. In essence, the University may have ignored "troublesome" behavior in the past but dropped the hammer when it looked like a team culture was not meeting Duke standards. Partisan agenda hacks on the left and right will never be satisfied so there's no point in worrying about what they think.
4) If something inappropriate happened to this woman at that house, she will have her day in court.
5) Hopefully Durham/Duke will do a better job at actually addressing "issues" than the post-Katrina crowd.

 

[Fern]

Three issues:

1) Newspaper nad TV news has been rather vague as to whether the "victim" purports to able to identify the alleged "3" perps.

In the DA's various public "meetings" many people (who mostly strike me as black activists types) have demanded that Nifong arrest the three accused. But this has struck me as odd in that 46 players DNA samples were taken. My question: if the womene claims to be able to identify the 3 attackers, WHY was DNA sought from 46 players instead of only the 3 players?

2) No DNA vs no matching DNA. The way it was reported it seemed to me there was no matching DNA. I.e., there was DNA, but it did not match any of the players. Some posts above, whether by accident or intention, seem top say that there was no DNA whatsoever. I find these two positions to be significantly/substantially different.

3) The "joke" email. How is it that this private email was publicly released? Who did it & for what purpose? Isn't this a violations of the authors "Right to Privacy"? I don't feel the email is significant to the case at hand, its release makes me suspicious of the DA's actions, intentions and motivation (i.e., Duke bashing for personal political gain). It seems the release of this email led directly to the resignation of the coach
-----------------------------------------------------

Although I will withhold forming a firm opinion until further facts are released, and the ones we have heard about are clarified, I am beginning to suspect that the women are fabricating a case in hopes of monetary gain and Nifong is willing to go along (even agitate matters) in hopes of victory in the upcoming election. If so, I hope Nifong particularly gets some form of punishment for this.

IMHO, I don't believe we should have heard much, if anything, about this until someone was charged. I'd like to have inside access to the police dept to know what they think.

BTW: Duke's exemption from property taxes is irrelevent to this issue. Non-profits & government entities, including universities, don't pay property taxes or income taxes.

2cd BTW: Anybody know what universities Nifong attended?

Fern

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

1) Details are sketchy b/c almost every source has an agenda. The woman made picture IDs but didn't do it for two weeks. IIRC, No one from Durham PD or DA has confirmed that she's made IDs or explained the delay.

But it does partially explain why DNA was sought from all 46 players. The authorities were fishing but it still doesn't make sense b/c it seems that evidence wouldn't be allowed at trial.

2) I have seen sources report there was no DNA match (I assume between the rape kit and players) AND that there was no DNA found in the bathroom . . . not the victim NOR any of the players. The latter is just plain weird considering they found HER fake nails in the bathroom.

3) Dude, email ain't private! Hell, snail mail isn't even private. Try sending a letter to Pakistan or Saudi Arabia . . . not to mention some place like Cuba.

The coach resigned due to an accumulation of factors but it's hard to argue that email has NO bearing on this case. The alleged assault is a crime of violence. You can dismiss it as a joke but it certainly reveals "character" traits that are not befitting of responsible members of society. Considering the defense attorneys are not challenging its authenticity and it was sent within 90 minutes of this woman leaving that house . . . it clearly is pertinent. It's not incriminating per se but it's not insignificant.

 

[tommywishbone]

Tawana Brawley anyone?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

latest news

DURHAM, N.C. -- An unnamed source close to the investigation of a reported rape near the Duke University campus has told NBC 17 News that someone might have drugged the accuser the night she claims three lacrosse members raped her.
---
"Her condition is said to have changed dramatically in a short period of time, from being completely sober on arrival to passing out on the floor in a short period of time."

Obviously just a theory . . .

The attorneys said the investigators acted friendly toward the players and inquired who was at the party. The defense contends that police are trying to nail down a suspect after District Attorney Mike Nifong said this week that the woman positively identified one of her attackers from a photo lineup last week.

But attorneys also noted that three people at the party aren't on the lacrosse team, and none of them have submitted DNA samples to authorities for testing.

 

[CessnaFlyer]

The stripper, and the DA should go too prison

 

[Genx87]

Sounds like the prosecution is getting desperate. Cant they test for the date rape drug within 24 hours of its use?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

two players indicted . . . under seal

(04/17/06 - DURHAM) - A grand jury issued sealed indictments Monday against two members of the Duke University lacrosse team in connection with allegations that a stripper was raped last month at a team party, a defense attorney said.
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"Today, two young men have been charged with crimes they did not commit," attorney Robert Ekstrand said in a statement. "This is a tragedy. For the two young men, an ordeal lies ahead. ... They are both innocent."

Ekstrand, who represents dozens of players, did not say which players were indicted or what charges they faced.

 

[Genx87]

One of the players is claiming he wasnt even at the house and supposedly will have proof to back this up. This is going to be a circus of a trial.

 

[Zebo]

DNA evidence? whats that going to prove she likes you to keep it in? If I were on a jury no way would I believe some felonous whore over a bunch of college kids DNA evidence or not. That's what this case will come down to. He said she said credibility and numbers!

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: CessnaFlyer
The stripper, and the DA should go too prison

People who falsely accuse rape should definitely endure some punishment.

 

[BrownTown]

the problem is that you cant really prove it either way. Even if someone is making a false accusation its hard to prove it. Especially when it comes down to whether or not it was consentional or not. Having said that, false accusations should deffinitely be prosecuted if they can be proven, at least the person should be sued for damages. IF someone really is making a false accusation it certainly hurts the life of the person they are accusing. You can look at the Kobe Bryant case and see how it costs him tens of millions of dollars and lots of popularity.

EDIT: on a different note, i saw that the accused posted a 400,000$ bail, that will probably just make this whole rich white man verse poor black woman even worse seeing as they got that kind of money...