dx10

[akugami]

Originally posted by: Excal78
I'll just wait for the g80 cards to buy the "old" current generation of nvidia cards which are suposed to be cheaper by that time.

Sometimes that's not a good choice. You might be better off seeing the price, performance and features of the G80 (and R600) before making a decision. It might turn out that a mid range card from either the G80 or R600 might be the best way to go when you do decide to upgrade.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: apoppin
or perhaps you can link to when the first full dx10 game is going to be released . . .

Crysis, and for Christ's sake please learn how to construct a paragraph.

 

[PingSpike]

I agree with the OP. DX10 support is not a selling point at this time. By the time enough dx10 titles come out to actually make having directx10 support worthwhile, your card will need replacing anyway.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: apoppin
or perhaps you can link to when the first full dx10 game is going to be released . . .

Crysis, and for Christ's sake please learn how to construct a paragraph.

NO it is NOT!
it is a DX9 game . . . with a 'few' DX10 extensions . . .

:roll:

nice link
:thumbsdown:

 

[Hidden Hippo]

I won't be getting a DX10 card anytime soon. I've just ordered my x1900xt, but will probably end up getting a DX10 card at the end of next year, probably winter time, when the bugs of Vista have been mostly removed, the DX10 cards have had their problems ironed out and there are games that are unable to run with DX9 at all.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: apoppin
or perhaps you can link to when the first full dx10 game is going to be released . . .

Crysis, and for Christ's sake please learn how to construct a paragraph.

NO it is NOT!
it is a DX9 game . . . with a 'few' DX10 extensions . . .

:roll:

nice link
:thumbsdown:

I guess you think that Oblivion isn't a shader model 3.0 title then, considering it can run as shader model 2 simply by turning off HDR.

Crysis is a DirectX 10 title. I'm not saying DirectX 10 is important (yet) and I am not recommending that anyone upgrades for a long time yet, so face facts and get over it. :roll:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: apoppin
or perhaps you can link to when the first full dx10 game is going to be released . . .

Crysis, and for Christ's sake please learn how to construct a paragraph.

NO it is NOT!
it is a DX9 game . . . with a 'few' DX10 extensions . . .

:roll:

nice link
:thumbsdown:

I guess you think that Oblivion isn't a shader model 3.0 title then, considering it can run as shader model 2 simply by turning off HDR.

Crysis is a DirectX 10 title. I'm not saying DirectX 10 is important (yet) and I am not recommending that anyone upgrades for a long time yet, so face facts and get over it. :roll:

Crysis
enough BS . .. link please

Crysis is a full dx9 game - not DX10

Most gamers will play Crysis using DirectX 9 video cards, since DX 9 has been the standard for several years and there is a wide install base of DirectX 9-capable video cards. If you have an older video card that doesn't support DirectX 9, though, it looks like you are going to need to upgrade, as Yerli said that the game will require a DirectX 9 graphics card with support for shader model 2.0. (Shaders are basically programmable instructions in the graphics card that help determine the visual qualities of an image.)


You can expect to see expansive environments like the one depicted in this concept art image.

Since DirectX 10 cards didn't exist in May, the Crysis demo at the Electronic Entertainment Expo was actually running on DirectX 9 video cards, which is a good indication of what sorts of visuals you'll get with current hardware. "The E3 demo was all about DX 9 shader model 2.0--there was no more technology than this," Yerli said. He also addressed some of the controversy around the E3 demo. While visually amazing, the frame rate struggled quite a bit throughout the demo. However, he noted that Crysis was running on dual graphics-processor-unit systems, while most other PC games at the show were running on quad GPU systems. Still, we can expect performance on DirectX 9 cards to be smoother once the game is finished and optimized.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Read and learn, moron.

"Crysis will ship with features that are exclusive to DX10." - Cevat Yerli, Crytek President.

But, hey... I guess you know much better than the guy responsible for making it.

"A next-generation project by CryTek, makers of the dazzling FPS Far Cry. This game is running on the new CryENGINE 2 technology. The game is one of the the first announced to run on the advanced DirectX 10 architecture." - IGN.

But, hey... I guess you know much better than IGN too, eh?

:roll:

Dick.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
Read and learn, moron.

"Crysis will ship with features that are exclusive to DX10." - Cevat Yerli, Crytek President.

But, hey... I guess you know much better than the guy responsible for making it.

"A next-generation project by CryTek, makers of the dazzling FPS Far Cry. This game is running on the new CryENGINE 2 technology. The game is one of the the first announced to run on the advanced DirectX 10 architecture." - IGN.

But, hey... I guess you know much better than IGN too, eh?

:roll:

Dick.

What is it that you do not comprehend about Crysis NOT being a FULL DX10 game?

it is a "Full DX9 game" - with DX10 extensions . . i.e. "with features that are exclusive to DX10."

since you have no clue, no reading or comprehension skills, perhaps someone else can explain it to you in simpler terms.
:disgust:

i have a hard time explaining to obtuse imbeciles that DX10 hasn't been finalized long enough for a FULL dx10 game.

aloha

 

[Ulfhednar]

So, as I said before; On your planet, because you can turn the HDR off in Oblivion and run it on X800 series hardware, it's true that it is not a shader model 3.0 game?

You frigging reek of hypocrisy, stop making yourself look like an idiot. If you had sense you would've just conceeded the point a page ago rather than continue to humiliate yourself. It's sad to see a six-year member make such stupid comments.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar
So, as I said before; On your planet, because you can turn the HDR off in Oblivion, it's not a shader model 3.0 game?

You frigging reek of hypocrisy, stop making yourself look like an idiot. If you had sense you would've just conceeded the point a page ago rather than continue to humiliate yourself. It's sad to see a six-year member make such stupid comments.

you can't even coherently hold a single thought, can you . . . WTF brought up SM3.0 and Oblivion?

i am sorry that you are completely incapable of understanding the simplest things about game engines . . . and DX10.

that is not my fault.

The 'lack of sense' is yours but you are too dull to even get it.
:thumbsdown:

fortunately the rest of the membership - understands - and will tend to ignore the rest of the crap you post.

you are on my Ignore list and i will never read anything you post again. . . . . ever . .. including the nonsense youpost without understanding in this thread - no loss for me.
:disgust:

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: apoppin
you can't even coherently hold a single thought, can you . . . WTF brought up SM3.0 and Oblivion?

You claim that because Crysis runs on DirectX 9 hardware, then it's not a DirectX 10 game, but instead "just a DirectX 9 game with DirectX 10 extensions."

So, because Oblivion runs on shader model 2.x hardware just fine and has features for shader model 3.0 (HDR and improved bump mapping) then I guess you also think that Oblivion is not a shader model 3.0 title, but instead "just a shader model 2.x game with shader model 3.0 extensions."

So, do you think that or not? Show us how idiotic you can really be.

i am sorry that you are completely incapable of understanding the simplest things about game engines . . . and DX10.

that is not my fault.

tha 'lack of sense' is yours but you are too dull to even get it.
:thumbsdown:

fortunately the rest of the membership - understands - and will tend to ignore the rest of the crap you post.

I see that you still make absolutely no attempt to come up with a counter-point, and instead pretend that you speak for the whole community (or, in your words, "the rest of the membership") rather than admit that you've been caught making a fallacious argument.

you are on my Ignore list and i will never read anything you post again. .. . . no loss for me.

Since you have nothing else to offer to the debate, and your only remaining action is to retreat, then I think that at this point I can safely say: Concession accepted, thanks for playing.

 

[beggerking]

Crysis is a game that supports both DX10 and DX9 API.

Apoppin, "DX9 game w . DX10 extension"..= DX10 . get your fact straight. You got lucky here that the game will support DX9 as well so you are both correct.

 

[Creig]

Ulfhednar, I'm going to have to agree with apoppin on his interpretation. Although Crysis may have a few DX10 features, it's primarily a DX9 game. The actual DX10 features (or DX Next or WGF2.0 or whatever-the-hell Microsoft is calling it these days) will most likely be very limited and are there to increase the game's hype (OMG!! DX10!!) and to simplify some coding.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1989816,00.asp

ExtremeTech: It seems like nobody has actual DX10 hardware yet. Are you doing most of your work in the DX10 reference rasterizer? Simply making more complex shaders along a DX9 code path? "Render to spec" work in a program like 3ds Max or Maya? Exactly what methods are you using to do DX10 development at this point?

Cevat Yerli: If there is no hardware, you have to use the software emulation, and because of its performance, it's no pleasure to work with. On the other hand, buggy alpha hardware can be really painful. We cannot develop techniques solely for DX9 or DX10, so we implement, create, and tweak the level with DX9 and adjust the code afterwards for DX10. We cannot comment though under which DX10 development conditions we are working, since it would infringe NDAs.


ExtremeTech: By the time DX10 hardware is available to develop on in earnest, your game will be nearly done. Obviously, the degree to which you can exploit it is limited. Do you hope to do more with DX10 in maybe a Crysisexpansion pack, or will we have to wait for the next Crytek game to see more elaborate DX10 utilization?

Cevat Yerli: Crysis will ship with features that are exclusive to DX10, however, ultimately we will develop more elegant solutions with time coming forward, since we have implementation ideas that at this stage would fight our DX9 implementation. Hence we will improve DX10 even more after Crysis ships through patches, but only if the DX10 hardware base is big enough to reduce focus on DX9. Probably a year will have to pass by.


ExtremeTech: DX10 adds quite a few significant new features and changes to the API (and hardware requirements)?stuff that may potentially change the way games are made. Which new feature matters most to you?

Cevat Yerli: The geometry shader, together with texture arrays, can greatly simplify some render-to-texture operations. This can speed up things like shadow computations, reflections and refractions.

So in other words, the Crysis developers are mostly using DX10 to simplify/speed up graphics that can be performed by today's DX9 hardware. To me, this does not make Crysis a DX10 game, but a DX9 game with DX10 extensions.

Saying Crysis is a DX10 game is technically correct, but to me that statement refers to a game specifically written for DX10 hardware with DX9 compatibility thrown in, not the other way around.

 

[Dribble]

The reason to goto vista and use DX10 (or DX9L - the special version for vista to allow backward compatibility with existing games) is not for extra features but extra performance. DX9 on XP is very inefficient - when you ask it to draw something like 40% of the time is spend with the cpu plowing through layers of direct X code (i.e. gpu isn't doing anything). Alegedly vista versions of DX (in particular games with DX10 paths) are twice as efficient needing half the cpu time to send the calls on to the gpu.

i.e. games coming out soon with a DX10 path may not look different but they will run faster.

Well that's what microsoft are saying, whether you believe them or not is up to you

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: Creig
So in other words, the Crysis developers are mostly using DX10 to simplify/speed up graphics that can be performed by today's DX9 hardware. To me, this does not make Crysis a DX10 game, but a DX9 game with DX10 extensions.

Saying Crysis is DX10 game is technically correct, but to me that statement refers to a game specifically written for DX10 hardware with DX9 compatibility thrown in, not the other way around.

DirectX 10 isn't only being used in Crysis to render DirectX 9 features faster. On DirectX 10 hardware a player will be able to take full advantage of true volumetric clouds, shadows, and motion blurring with new geometry shaders and other shader model 4 featuresthat simply isn't possible with DirectX 9 as it is now. People with DirectX 9 hardware will be missing out on quite a lot of eye-candy.

I never said that Crysis wasn't primarily a DirectX 9 game, just that it is indeed a DirectX 10 title as it has features only supported with the new API, and I am not saying that Crysis is a reason to upgrade to DirectX 10 (as I don't think the cost of the hardware and new OS can be justified by one game.)

 

[akugami]

Well...I hope someone realizes that pretty much all of the features found in the new Crytek engine have been available, perhaps not as well done, in different games including real time shadows and other advanced shadowing techniques, volumetric clouds, motion blurring, and destructible terrain/objects. All of these features in the Crytek engine will amazingly be available in the DX9 version of the game. In fact, due to the lack of DX10 hardware, all of those features which are shown are actually running on DX9 hardware and under DX9 API's.

Will there be a fancy doodad feature or two in the DX10 version of Crysis (or other early DX10 games) that aren't available in DX9 games, or not done as well under DX9? Of course. No one is going to disagree. Most intelligent users will realize however that much like when DX5, 6, 7, 8, 9 hit, the early versions of games using the new API's will not look much better than games under the older versions of the DX API's. Sure, we've had some slight improvements in games from DX8 to DX9 in the first couple of years but everyone realizes that it wasn't until Farcry (released two years after DX9 was released) and HL2 that games that truly took advantage of DX9 started to come out and the final (for now) result is in the simply gorgeous Oblivion game. Even comparing a relatively early DX9 game like Farcry to Oblivion we see huge increases in graphical quality.

Anyone who wants to splurge their money and pimp DX10 is welcome to. Just don't expect everyone else to jump on the DX10 bandwagon just yet. Following past trends we're of the opinion that a game being worthy of the DX10 claims will take at least 2-3 years to develope. Not only that, but developers in both the console and pc development world have said in the past that it takes roughly 3 years to develope a game. Seeing as how it's kind of hard to develope a game when you have no hardware that supports the new API's as well as the API's in question are not even completed yet, I won't hold my breath for DX10 games just quite yet.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
Well i believe ATI and Nvidia when they say DX9 will be faster, it has to be or nobody will buy the card. Personally i think it will be 80-90% as fast as SLI 7800GTX... but that is my guess with no other reasoning other than Next Gen cards are usually as fast as SLI last Gen.

If it is 80%-90% as powerful as SLI 7800GTXs, people will be disappointed, because there's already a faster card than that, the 7950GX2. :roll:

 

[CrystalBay]

Read :All DX 10 really brings is visually more objects and complexity(detail) to the screen due to the geometry shaders. Water will look the very similar to DX9 but at more optimised overhead.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: beggerking
Crysis is a game that supports both DX10 and DX9 API.

Apoppin, "DX9 game w . DX10 extension"..= DX10 . get your fact straight. You got lucky here that the game will support DX9 as well so you are both correct.

my facts are completely straight . . . unlike yours

Crysis is a DX9 game . .. with a few DX10 extensions

what do you guys not understand about "extensions"?

i have said over-and-over - absolutely correctly - that a "FULL Dx10" game - is at least a couple of years away.

it might be hard for some of you to underestand, but to do "a full DX 10 game" requires: 1) the Dev kit that supports it, 2) the FINAL dx10 spec, AND 3) DX10 cards. . . . do we even have the final spec from M$ yet?

any "full DX10 games" - built from the ground up with DX10 or WGF2.0 - is being worked on NOW . . . and the devs will absolutely NEED dx10 cards to fully implement *everything*

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: beggerking
"DX9 game w . DX10 extension"..= DX10

Sigh, you are beyond help.

edit

Originally posted by: CrystalBay
Read :All DX 10 really brings is visually more objects and complexity(detail) to the screen due to the geometry shaders. Water will look the very similar to DX9 but at more optimised overhead.

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/programming/features/d3d10overview/

edit2
here is another link

Let?s take a quick look at some of the differences between DirectX 9 and DirectX 10 ?

 

[Gstanfor]

Apoppin, you cannot create a DX10 game by just "adding some extensions". The entire API works differently. There are no capbits for extensions to support. You either support ALL of Dx10 or NONE of it.

Now, while I wouln't claim to know precisely what is going to happen, my guess is there will be two crysis exe's, or 2 rendering paths, one for DX9 and one for DX10, of course the DX9 path will have further subpaths inside it... Which is precisely why M$ chose to make the API work differently for Dx10.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Apoppin, you cannot create a DX10 game by just "adding some extensions". The entire API works differently. There are no capbits for extensions to support. You either support ALL of Dx10 or NONE of it.

Now, while I wouln't claim to know precisely what is going to happen, my guess is there will be two crysis exe's, or 2 rendering paths, one for DX9 and one for DX10, of course the DX9 path will have further subpaths inside it... Which is precisely why M$ chose to make the API work differently for Dx10.

for crying out loud :roll:

from DirectX Frequently Asked Questions
Can I mix the use of Direct3D 9 and Direct3D 10 within the same application?

Yes, you may use these versions of Direct3D together in the same application.

 

[Gstanfor]

That will only work on Vista though. You will still need a pure DX9 path for XP/2000.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
That will only work on Vista though. You will still need a pure DX9 path for XP/2000.

well.. yeah but wasent that the point in the context of Crysis?

Crysis running ON Vista will be part DX9 (my gauss is mostly DX9 with some DX10).