dx10

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor
Apoppin, you cannot create a DX10 game by just "adding some extensions". The entire API works differently. There are no capbits for extensions to support. You either support ALL of Dx10 or NONE of it.

Now, while I wouln't claim to know precisely what is going to happen, my guess is there will be two crysis exe's, or 2 rendering paths, one for DX9 and one for DX10, of course the DX9 path will have further subpaths inside it... Which is precisely why M$ chose to make the API work differently for Dx10.

"precisely"? . . . you don't know even generally

look at the article linked above again

Yerli: If there is no [DX10] hardware, you have to use the software emulation, and because of its performance, it's no pleasure to work with. On the other hand, buggy alpha hardware can be really painful. We cannot develop techniques solely for DX9 or DX10, sowe implement, create, and tweak the level with DX9 and adjust the code afterwards for DX10 .

and

Yerli: Crysis will ship with features that are exclusive to DX10, however, ultimately we will develop more elegant solutions with time coming forward, since we have implementation ideas that at this stage would fight our DX9 implementation. Hence we will improve DX10 even more after Crysis ships through patches, but only if the DX10 hardware base is big enough to reduce focus on DX9. Probably a year will have to pass by.

Crysis is no "full Dx10 game"

:roll:

 

[akugami]

Gstanfor...for Crysis to even use run on any DX10 instructions it'd sorta have to be on Vista wouldn't it? MS saying DX10 is Vista only and all. I'm not a programmer but from everything I've read so far and aside from geometry shaders, DX10 is mostly about efficiency and putting more of what you can already do onscreen at once. Not necessarily new effects, just more effects and more different effects that you can already do, as well as more objects all onscreen at once. From what I've read about Crysis so far, the DX10 instructions they plan to put in are mostly for aiding efficiency so you can probably play the game at higher quality settings and get playable framerates.

 

[apoppin]

akugami, You don't need to be a programmer or dev to understand that Crysis is a pure DX9 game - built up from the ground with DX9 .. . . with "code adjustments" for DX10/Vista.


how people read "full DX10 game" outta this is waay beyond me.

or expect that there will be Gstanfor's "two crysis exe's, or 2 rendering paths"

we know that is impossible - at this early date - nothing is finalized .. . . as the devs say 'probablly a year' to patch it into a "DX10 game" - IF the DX10 base is large enough.

if vista doesn't sell well, DX10 is a LOT further off.

if M$ can fool enough of you it will be successful.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
if vista doesn't sell well, DX10 is a LOT further off.

if M$ can fool enough of you it will be successful.

Upgrading existing computers (XP) isnt that importent from the "if Vista will sell good enough" POV, it will sell good enough with new systems.

Microsoft will push,with Dell and all the other big vendors, Vista as soon as it's out, and from that moment on 80-90% of all new computers will be sold with Vista bundled.

What, imho, will make a much bigger difference for game developer is the next generation hardware as in:

1. G80 and R600 launch dates.
2. Parts availability (paper launch or real launch).
3. DirectX 10 capability of the new chips (which features are in the hardware and which features are emuleted through the driver).
4. DirectX 10 raw performances of the new chips (how well the features in the hardware are implemented).
5. And to a lesser extent market penatration (price).

/edit (twice errrr)

 

[apoppin]

that last bit about Vista's selling and DX10 . . . was sarcasm i.e.[]
[and most of your Dell systems with Vista will have integrated graphics]

edited^

but the POINT is that anything resembling a "DX10 Game" in Crysis will come in patches and is a year off.
-according to the devs.

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
that last bit about Vista's selling and DX10 . . . was sarcasm i.e.[]

With the emotionicon flooding in you'r posts is hard to discriminant sarcasm.

but the POINT is that anything resembling a "DX10 Game" in Crysis will come in patches and is a year off.
-according to the devs.

Truth be told I'm not into FPS's so here is another .

/edit

[and most of your Dell systems with Vista will have integrated graphics]

integrated graphics is (g3000 or whatever) directX 10 compliant so that deserved a third .

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: apoppin
that last bit about Vista's selling and DX10 . . . was sarcasm i.e.[]

With the emotionicon flooding in you'r posts is hard to discriminant sarcasm.

but the POINT is that anything resembling a "DX10 Game" in Crysis will come in patches and is a year off.
-according to the devs.

Truth be told I'm not into FPS's so here is another .

/edit

[and most of your Dell systems with Vista will have integrated graphics]

integrated graphics is (g3000 or whatever) directX 10 compliant so that deserved a third .

EDIT: those integraphic systems won't be able to even play Crysis . . . so there

the 'sarcasm rule' - emoticon or not - is to notice to whom the post is directed.



So . . . what kind of video games do you play?

dx10 is being planned for everything . . .
:roll:

i used to be "fps only" but have expanded to the hybreds [DE:IW/Oblivion/B&W2]

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
the 'sarcasm rule' - emoticon or not - is to notice to whom the post is directed.



So . . . what kind of video games do you play?

dx10 is being planned for everything . . .
:roll:

i used to be "fps only" but have expanded to the hybreds [DE:IW/Oblivion/B&W2]

RPG's and strategy, both realtime and turn base.

This might interest you
http://pc.ign.com/articles/722/722987p1.html
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/gothic-iii/722603p1.html

Its a RPG (a lot more R then oblivion) but with realtime combat.

/edit
I used to play FPS's but now they bore me after 10 minuts ...unless that is they have amazing immersion(gfx) and an extreme atmosphere(sfx) in that case they bore me after an additional 10 minuts.

/edit 2
Neverwinter Nights 2 is the second runner in my list, shows a lot of promise.
pc.gamespy.com/pc/neverwinter-nights-ii/666610p1.html
pc.ign.com/articles/536/536518p1.html

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: kobymu

Originally posted by: apoppin
the 'sarcasm rule' - emoticon or not - is to notice to whom the post is directed.



So . . . what kind of video games do you play?

dx10 is being planned for everything . . .
:roll:

i used to be "fps only" but have expanded to the hybreds [DE:IW/Oblivion/B&W2]

RPG's and strategy, both realtime and turn base.

This might interest you
http://pc.ign.com/articles/722/722987p1.html
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/gothic-iii/722603p1.html

Its a RPG (a lot more R then oblivion) but with realtime combat.

/edit
I used to play FPS's but now they bore me after 10 minuts ...unless that is they have amazing immersion(gfx) and an extreme atmosphere(sfx) in that case they bore me after an additional 10 minuts.

/edit 2
Neverwinter Nights 2 is the second runner in my list, shows a lot of promise.
pc.gamespy.com/pc/neverwinter-nights-ii/666610p1.html
pc.ign.com/articles/536/536518p1.html

thanks . . . looks very interesting . . . i can hand some 'R'oleplaying . . . i even like KotOR series - except for the D&D style combat.
:thumbsup:

[takes me a long time to get any link on dialup]

i knew about NWN2 . . .

anyway . . . for a "pure" FPS, Chronicles of Riddick:EfBB would be my No.1 . . .

i really liked Thief Series . . . and also DE series . . . SS2 also and looking forward to Bioshock.

 

[Lord Banshee]

Originally posted by: Nightmare225

Originally posted by: Lord Banshee
Well i believe ATI and Nvidia when they say DX9 will be faster, it has to be or nobody will buy the card. Personally i think it will be 80-90% as fast as SLI 7800GTX... but that is my guess with no other reasoning other than Next Gen cards are usually as fast as SLI last Gen.

If it is 80%-90% as powerful as SLI 7800GTXs, people will be disappointed, because there's already a faster card than that, the 7950GX2. :roll:

I consider the 7950 as a SLI as it is and it uses the SLI Drivers... I am an anti dual card person ... But i do see what your saying and you are right, Nvidia markets the card as a single card so the G80 and the R600 has to be faster than the 7950GX2... which is great!

 

[kobymu]

Originally posted by: apoppin
thanks . . . looks very interesting . . . i can hand some 'R'oleplaying . . . i even like KotOR series - except for the D&D style combat.
:thumbsup:

[takes me a long time to get any link on dialup]

i knew about NWN2 . . .

anyway . . . for a "pure" FPS, Chronicles of Riddick:EfBB would be my No.1 . . .

i really liked Thief Series . . . and also DE series . . . SS2 also and looking forward to Bioshock.

I liked Thief too, good game. Most RPGs, even 'hardcore' ones, are shifting toward realtime combat (even though it makes all the old school RPGers disgruntled ), bad for me good for you, since FPSs 'spoiled' you , ho well...

Without getting to deep into it (and btw i saw that little discussion you had with Bateluer in software&games), after a while point&click (FPS) is getting kind of... well repetitive, even with magnificent surrounding like in oblivion, i gauss i just like detailed charactes rather then detailed landscape, i like engaging conversation over mere dialogues, i prefer "i have this problem and i don't know what to do..." over "deliver this item to.." or "slay the beast", i like choices that matters, hell even thief (1) had better story then oblivion, even considering its limited scope. To sum it up, Oblivion is best suited for poeple that want to play the the role of an archaeologist indiana jones style where the action is more importend then the plot, me i like drama, for me its all about the story. Sorry for the rant.

 

[kobymu]

Back on topic

Originally posted by: apoppin
EDIT: those integraphic systems won't be able to even play Crysis . . . so there

Andyou think the 150$ cards can?

dx10 is being planned for everything . . .
:roll:

You know how it is, all the systems that are sold right now will be sold with Vista with the logo "built for Vista" on it, and some game will probably come with "ready for vista" on it although they are completely DX9. Its just the way thing work.

 

[athfbum]

Note that the GeForce 8 series will be compatible with DX9 and DX10

 

[imported_Truenofan]

Note that the GeForce 8 series will be compatible with DX9 and DX10

thats not the point of the post athfbum, the point of it is, is that if your not going to vista, and dont plan on it, why get a dx10 card, why spend who knows how much, on a new psu(for those of us who have to) and new video card just to play games for a little bit, before cards get even faster compaired to the initial g80 and r600 series.

thats why i started this post, people are recommending others to buy a dx10 card right off the bat when they first get released, why are they doing that? are they going to buy one right away or wait, are they going to go to windows vista or wait. unless your going to go to vista upon inital launch, and buy a dx10 upon launch, dont recommend others to do so.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Some dude makes a thread, "Is it sensible for me to splurge $400 on a high-end GPU with DX10 cards not too far away on the horizon?"....

'Assume' is a dangerous word to throw around in a forum, but I assume the poster:
1) Is aware that DirectX 10 is Vista-only.
2) Plans on upgrading to Vista as soon as it's released.

Even if the above isn't true, I think DX10-card is the new way of saying next-gen card. I think it is fair to (ahem) assume that G80/R600 will come close to doubling the performance of the G71/R580 in High-Resolution/High Image-Quality testing. We saw it going from 9800XT->X800XT and 5950U->6800U. We saw it going from 6800U->7800GTX & X850XT->X1800XT. I'm sure the X2800XT/8800GTX will be (roughly) twice the performers that the X1900XT/7900GTX are.

So when someone says, "Should I wait for the DX10 cards?", I think they are saying, "Should I wait for the next performance-doubling cards?"

My $0.02 on the Crysis DX9/DX10 fiasco. If a game runs a little differently in DX10 mode (better performance/better visuals), it can be called a DX10 game in my book. If a game refuses to run/install on anything less than a DX10 GPU, it is a DX10-exclusive game. But this is rare as almost all games support the previous generation of the API.

For eg. I can install Half-Life 2 on DirectX 8/9 hardware - it is still a DX9 game, although it can't be called a DX9-exclusive. I can run FEAR with DX8 shaders. I can run Call of Duty 2 with DX7 Shaders. Battlefield 2 plays on a DX8 Radeon 8500 (minimum spec). Aren't these all still...DirectX 9 games? Crysis is similar to this - DX9/10 modes.

My vote: Crysis is a DX9 title with (proposed) added functionality for DX10. DX10 might improve depth-of-field and motion blur effects with less overhead....what else, only time will tell.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

yeah, performance may be ehanced, but who knows if its actually going to double, im kinda doubting that they're gonna double the performance of current video cards, that kinda stuff really doesnt happen all that much anymore. and if it does, is it going to be vista or is it going to be in xp. if its only vista, is it worth paying that much more to get the enhancements in vista. and then pay for vista too. then again(just kinda had a brain fart) if someone pays who knows how much for the next gen video card, they're probly saving up for vistas 400 dollar bloated ass too.

 

[athfbum]

Windows Vista: $200
8800GTX: $400
700 watt PSU: $150
Realising you just spent your paycheck for an ego boost: Priceless

 

[imported_Truenofan]

i think the next gen, is probly gonna cost the same, as when the 7900's and x1900's were released, 500+, vista, probly over 300, and a good psu with at least 20A on the 12v rails, additional 200-300.(and those who want overkill....the 1KW psu's are like...400+ )

 

[RelaxTheMind]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
and unless they're ready to fork out 200-300 bucks for windows vista, they wont even have dx10 games at all.(or pirate it)

you mentioned the forbidden "P" word.

 

[Nightmare225]

Originally posted by: Truenofan
yeah, performance may be ehanced, but who knows if its actually going to double, im kinda doubting that they're gonna double the performance of current video cards, that kinda stuff really doesnt happen all that much anymore. and if it does, is it going to be vista or is it going to be in xp. if its only vista, is it worth paying that much more to get the enhancements in vista. and then pay for vista too. then again(just kinda had a brain fart) if someone pays who knows how much for the next gen video card, they're probly saving up for vistas 400 dollar bloated ass too.

I think they will double performance. This is NVIDIAs first new architecture in who knows how many years?!?!?!

 

[imported_Truenofan]

you mentioned the forbidden "P" word.

gotta face reality. it exists and there's not much you can do about it.

nightmare225, even if they do make a new architecture in a unknown number of years....its still hard to imagine that they're going to double performance...they might tack on like 1/4 to whats current but double....thats a big order to fill.

 

[StevenNevets]

All I want to know is the price...
Windows Vista?
G80?

No point of getting into this arguement if I can't afoard them and if they are over $300 combind (which they probobly are) then I won't bother anyways for some time

 

[zephyrprime]

I read an interview of some guys at MS and it sounds like the biggest new feature of DX10 is the ability to support higher poly counts and more models. This isn't even exactly a feature it's more like an optimization. So I think games will actually get faster by supporting dx10 rather than get slower.

 

[imported_Truenofan]

did they state if thats only dx10 cards or dx9 only cards, is that dx10 games or dx10/9 games, and thats only for vista, if you pay whatever for vista to have that feature. if the games take advantage of that of course.