E4500

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: Gophermofur
Another quick question...

Which Vcore reading should be regarded as the most accureate? The one you step in Bios, or the ones reported by CPU-Z and other similar programs? I would assume CPU-Z, hence why there are so many vdroop mods out there, but I just wanted to double check.

Thanks.

I use BIOS, so 1.46 would be the 10% mark.

 

[Gophermofur]

Originally posted by: kmmatney
That is a really low bus speed to have problems, you should really be able to run at 266 Mhz without any issues, that's what the pin mod will do. You can defaintely give the cpu a 0.05 V bump in voltage.

I've never gone as far as to perform soldering/mods on my board, so I'm not really sure what you are referring to. Are you talking about the BSEL, Vdroop mod, other? Perhaps you can give me a shove in the right direction

Thanks!

 

[lopri]

I am definitely interested in those with x11 (and up) multi CPUs. I have an E2140 which does up to 333FSB (8x333=2.67GHz) at stock vCore on DFI P965-S. For whatever reason it won't go higher than 340FSB. BSEL mod is in order, I guess. (although I really don't understand because it does that under 800 strap, not to mention under 1066) There is something keeping the CPU from clocking higher. If nothing works, I will probably get an E4500 when price drops. 3.66GHz (11x333) under 800 strap(!). With decent memory bandwidth (DDR2-800/CL4 and higher), I bet the performance will be better than E6850 @3.66GHz under 1333 strap.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Issue is probably MB. Most quality P35 boards should be able to get this chip north of 3.0GHz. There is absolutely no need to go with a 10x, 11x, or 12x multi CPU unless you have junk RAM and MB. Most E4x00 chips will top out at 3.5GHz unless you have a fantastic CPU cooler and are willing to pump north of 1.55Vcore.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
Issue is probably MB. Most quality P35 boards should be able to get this chip north of 3.0GHz.

Agree. Unfortunately it doesn't look like DFI will release a BIOS that'll solve the issue.

Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal
There is absolutely no need to go with a 10x, 11x, or 12x multi CPU unless you have junk RAM and MB. Most E4x00 chips will top out at 3.5GHz unless you have a fantastic CPU cooler and are willing to pump north of 1.55Vcore.

False. From my observation, the effect of straps on performance is HUGE on Intel platform. By going down one lower chipset strap and tightening memory a little bit, you can easily get the performance of next grade CPU. (200~300MHz in CPU frequency)

So now we have a E6850 that has x9 multi under 1333 strap (3.0GHz=9x333). Even with half the L2 cache, E4300 @3.0GHz (9x333, 800 strap) will be faster. Of course you will need a board that can do 333FSB under 800 strap. Many 975X boards will do ~330FSB under 800 strap and my DFI P965-S does that, too. So if you have a CPU with a high multiplier, you can go with lower strap settings and maximize the FSB as high as the strap setting allows. That'll give the best performance as well as be least stressful to the components.

Edit: This could be different with a quad-core CPU.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Not sure if your logic holds water. I'm currently on the 1066 strap (1:1.25 memory divider with 5-4-4-9-2T). If I drop to 1333 strap (1:1.20 memory divider with 4-4-4-9-2T), then my benchies will be slower due to the slower RAM speed. The difference amounts to about 120MHz core speed in the absolute best case scenario. Any advantage of the strap is wiped-out by the faster memory speed.

I don't have an E6850 for evaluation but my experience tells me that the E4300 will need to hit at least 3.15GHz to match the performance of the E6850, regardless of strap setting.

 

[dreddfunk]

Serpent - apart from the technical discussion of how much effect the strap has on performance (which I can't even begin to comment on), the reason I found the 4500 interesting was precisely because it could be used with 'junk' RAM and motherboards.

RAM prices for decent DDR2-800 have fallen really, really far, and reasonable (~$100) P35 motherboards are out there that can hit high FSB speeds, so I don't think the 4500 is nearly as interesting right now as it could have been a while back.

Not long ago, however, good OC RAM was very expensive and so were motherboards that could hit high FSB speeds. Under those conditions, the e4500 would have been a OC'ing dream, methinks.

Lopri - I've considered the 2140 very strongly; I'd be more than happy with 2.6GHz for $75. If it didn't involve a motherboard and memory switch, I'd have already ordered it.

Cheers.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

HP RAM is $20/GB. Easy 400MHz with 2.0Vdimm. Abit IP35-E is only $70 AR. That's a huge improvement in speed with future support of Peryn.

 

[dreddfunk]

Serpent - only a minor quibble: it's really $22.50/GB and $74.99 for the IP35-E. The real problem I have with them is that the rebates are very large, ~$40 each.

$123 for the e2140 & ASRock 4CoreDX90, no rebates (I've already got 1GB of good DDR400)
$253 for the e2140, IP35-E & 1GB HP RAM, or $173 after the $80 in rebates come in. That's $130 more before rebates and $50 more after rebates.

In the end, if the rebates come through, it's a fantastic deal. If they don't, it's a really bad deal. I'm not saying that they wouldn't, but $80 in rebates is starting to exceed my comfort level.

Cheers.

 

[dreddfunk]

Oh, and I forgot to mention, that with Penryn looking to improve over Conroe by only 5-10% as per the AT preview, supporting a future move to Penryn fell further down my list of things I need.

I'm much more likely to pick up a Q6600 in a few months and wait for Nehalem for a complete MB/RAM/CPU upgrade.

Cheers.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Peryn's strength is lower heat output. This should yield better overclocking speed with Quads. 45nm technology is necessary if you intend to push Quads beyond 3.5GHz.

My strategy is to stay with C2D @ 3.4GHz. Wait another year for Peryn. If I cannot engage a 45nm Quad for less than $150, then I will replace the MB and CPU in about 3 years. It's silly to go from DC Conroe/Allendale to DC Peryn. That's not a sufficient boost in speed to warrant a new CPU.

Current Quads run too hot and cost too much $.

 

[SerpentRoyal]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
Serpent - only a minor quibble: it's really $22.50/GB and $74.99 for the IP35-E. The real problem I have with them is that the rebates are very large, ~$40 each.

$123 for the e2140 & ASRock 4CoreDX90, no rebates (I've already got 1GB of good DDR400)
$253 for the e2140, IP35-E & 1GB HP RAM, or $173 after the $80 in rebates come in. That's $130 more before rebates and $50 more after rebates.

In the end, if the rebates come through, it's a fantastic deal. If they don't, it's a really bad deal. I'm not saying that they wouldn't, but $80 in rebates is starting to exceed my comfort level.

Cheers.

It's an HP rebate...almost as good as cash in hands. I received my $ in five weeks. The Abit rebate is also fast...a little over 5 weeks.

Scan the posts @ hot deals forum. Do you see anyone complaining about not getting their $? If you have any problem, then call the toll-FREE number and ask for Suzy. She's take care of your problem if you have a copy of the paper work.

 

[dreddfunk]

Serpent - that was no knock on the rebates, HP and Abit are good bets there. Generally, I'm just not thrilled with large rebates.

Really, I need a new GPU and/or monitor before getting a new CPU given my usage patterns anyway. The only reason I've been dithering about CPU upgrades is because it's such a bad time to upgrade my GPU with the fall refresh cycle just around the corner.

I'd do a monitor upgrade but there are precious few real options there as well. The x850xt struggles with Oblivion at 1280x1024, let alone getting a decent 16x10 or 19x12 monitor. As a result, I've toyed with the idea of getting [link=[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112008"]http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824112008[/url]]this[/link] since it couples a 23" display with a low resolution. I know many would think I'm crazy for looking at a monitor that pairs such a low resolution with such a big screen, but there's no way I'm getting on the I-need-a-$500-GPU-to-run-my-massive-monitor train.

Cheers.

 

[coldpower27]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
Serpent - that was no knock on the rebates, HP and Abit are good bets there. Generally, I'm just not thrilled with large rebates.

Really, I need a new GPU and/or monitor before getting a new CPU given my usage patterns anyway. The only reason I've been dithering about CPU upgrades is because it's such a bad time to upgrade my GPU with the fall refresh cycle just around the corner.

I'd do a monitor upgrade but there are precious few real options there as well. The x850xt struggles with Oblivion at 1280x1024, let alone getting a decent 16x10 or 19x12 monitor. As a result, I've toyed with the idea of getting [link=[url="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824112008"]http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824112008[/url]]this[/link] since it couples a 23" display with a low resolution. I know many would think I'm crazy for looking at a monitor that pairs such a low resolution with such a big screen, but there's no way I'm getting on the I-need-a-$500-GPU-to-run-my-massive-monitor train.

Cheers.

Hmm I don't think now is the time to upgrade for you IMO, just wait till till Nvidia and ATI new lineups come up and see what they bring, I hope power reductions and cheaper prices, is what I am aiming for.

I myself know I will be too busy in the coming Fall/Winter to be doing much game playing, the only games I am looking forward to are Spore, and Fallout 3, and I don't think either of those are too intensive.

I personally don't mind interpolated resolutions when playing games, I do on the desktop though at that is fugly, inside a game I don't really notice. So I am aimng for hitting up Dell whne they have a sale in Canada for the Dell 2407-HPC, I just missed the last one for 599 CND, hoping it comes around again sometime in the fall, I could live with 1280x800 on a 1920x1200 inside a game methinks.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
I know that the Q6600 price cut is really the story of the day, but has anyone really looked at the E4500 that was just released.

The stock speed of 2.2Ghz seems to be achieved by 11x200.

Is anyone else intrigued at the combination of an 11x multiplier along with a low starting FSB point for good overclocking?

It's darn close to the E6320 in price, so that's a downer, but I'm wondering how this next round of E4x will perform.

Any thoughts?

Yeah...my E4500 is only pushing 2.8ghz. I am waiting on some artci silver - hoping that might push things along rather than the lousy putty they ship with the Tuniq tower. But...by temps never exceed 53C under load (with fan on silent mode 1000rpm) and the cores are at 27C at idle.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
the reason I found the 4500 interesting was precisely because it could be used with 'junk' RAM and motherboards.

Don't call them junk, call them... budget.

 

[Greg04]

Originally posted by: Greg04

Originally posted by: dreddfunk
I know that the Q6600 price cut is really the story of the day, but has anyone really looked at the E4500 that was just released.

The stock speed of 2.2Ghz seems to be achieved by 11x200.

Is anyone else intrigued at the combination of an 11x multiplier along with a low starting FSB point for good overclocking?

It's darn close to the E6320 in price, so that's a downer, but I'm wondering how this next round of E4x will perform.

Any thoughts?

Yeah...my E4500 is only pushing 2.8ghz. I am waiting on some artci silver - hoping that might push things along rather than the lousy putty they ship with the Tuniq tower. But...by temps never exceed 53C under load (with fan on silent mode 1000rpm) and the cores are at 27C at idle.

UPDATE: UPDATE: After some arctic silver and some bios tweaks, 3.5ghz on 1.5v and 3.3ghz stable at 1.4v . Smokin' fast for a $139 chip.