E6400 Retail Overclocking

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: burney
thanks a lot Gary Key ....
Do you think the prices for processors (Conroe 6600), mobos(for conroe) and ram (DDR 800) will come down significanlty over a year..?..as Right now these are very expensive.and wondering if I should wait a bit.and I am very interested if you have anything to say about G80..


thanx again

The prices will start to come down to original list estimates on the CPUs once supply is further ramped up. I really think September/October will be a very good month for CPU purchases. The motherboards and ram (start to see some new value DDR2-800) should stabilize in September. We have already received several under $100 boards this week for testing. Nothing special yet, but the board suppliers are ramping up quickly now. Cannot say a word about G80, lets just say NV has a very good product roadmap this next quarter.

 

[Roy2001]

Originally posted by: burney
thanks a lot Gary Key ....
Do you think the prices for processors (Conroe 6600), mobos(for conroe) and ram (DDR 800) will come down significanlty over a year..?..as Right now these are very expensive.and wondering if I should wait a bit.and I am very interested if you have anything to say about G80..


thanx again

I don't think so. For Core2 Duo CPU, price will remains same for years, from just below $200 to $600 for mainstream and $1000 for extreme edition. You will just get faster CPU for the same money if you choose to wait.

But Intel should release low end version with slower FSB, less cache (512K or 1MB), or even single core, branded as Celeron or a new name and price would be around $100.

 

[Avalon]

Originally posted by: Roy2001

Originally posted by: burney
thanks a lot Gary Key ....
Do you think the prices for processors (Conroe 6600), mobos(for conroe) and ram (DDR 800) will come down significanlty over a year..?..as Right now these are very expensive.and wondering if I should wait a bit.and I am very interested if you have anything to say about G80..


thanx again

But Intel should release low end version with slower FSB, less cache (512K or 1MB), or even single core, branded as Celeron or a new name and price would be around $100.

Low end version with a slower FSB? Your wish will be granted...in Q1 2007

 

[burney]

I hope someone comes up with a hack to enable extra 2 Mb cache on these 6300.6400....that will be ownage...

 

[Denithor]

I have ordered the DS3, 2GB OCZ DDR2 (4448@667@1.8v), an x1900gt, and a 320GB Seagate drive. In addition, I will be running a Plextor DVD burner and maybe a separate sound card (if quality is poor with on-board). I plan to get the e6400 shortly and aim for 3-3.2GHz range.

Two questions: with this gear, will an FS: Blue Storm (500W/460W) be adequate or should I spend the extra bucks for a better PS? Second, will an XP-90 with a 92mm Panflo fan be adequate for this range of OC?

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: OcHungry

[
Can your E6300 so called budget system beat 27:08m 32M @ 2790mhz?
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4521/07192006044246qv0.jpg

Even though my numbers are not on XP64 yet, I have linked the stock E6400 and overclocked (2767MHz) for your viewing pleasure. Do we really need to show the E6300 overclocked for this request as the results will just continue to upset you.

E6400 SuperPI32m OC to 2767

E6400 SuperPI32M Stock

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: OcHungry
Can your E6300 so called budget system beat 27:08m 32M @ 2790mhz?
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4521/07192006044246qv0.jpg

Even though my numbers are not on XP64 yet, I have linked the stock E6400 and overclocked (2767MHz) for your viewing pleasure. Do we really need to show the E6300 overclocked for this request as the results will just continue to upset you.

E6400 SuperPI32m OC to 2767

E6400 SuperPI32M Stock

Hehehe, nice.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Even though my numbers are not on XP64 yet, I have linked the stock E6400 and overclocked (2767MHz) for your viewing pleasure. Do we really need to show the E6300 overclocked for this request as the results will just continue to upset you.

E6400 SuperPI32m OC to 2767

E6400 SuperPI32M Stock

Looks like ownage to me.

 

[lopri]

That post wasn't really necessary..

 

[River Side]

Core 2 Duo 1
AMD fanboys 0

 

[lopri]

How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.

Sigh..

 

[Dr Pepper]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Even though my numbers are not on XP64 yet, I have linked the stock E6400 and overclocked (2767MHz) for your viewing pleasure. Do we really need to show the E6300 overclocked for this request as the results will just continue to upset you.

E6400 SuperPI32m OC to 2767

E6400 SuperPI32M Stock

Looks like ownage to me.

Almost enough to be nominated for pwnage of the year, but it looks like someone else has that spot pretty wrapped up right now.

I've been using AMD almost exclusively since the K6-2/200 and missed the Celery 300 craze (the most recent time in history that Intel could claim pure mastery over AMD) and I could see this one coming a mile away . AMD was the one who first pointed out that Mhz is NOT everything....looks like Intel heard them.

Yes, I can build a cheaper system with AMD components now and run ALMOST as fast as these new Conroes - that still doesn't change the fact that the Conroe is leaving all other processors (that's ALL Intel and All AMD CPU's) in the dust right now - and that's before the amazing overclocks we're seeing here. Yes, it's going to cost more than AMD - I can't deny that - but if you want the biggest fastest monster on the playground today, then your only choice is which Conroe to buy.

The Original Dr Pepper

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.

Sigh..

I think it was the attitute of the OC guy...he came off as a bit rude (which he tried to excuse) and Gary Key provided the proof he was looking for.

You shouldn't not ask a question just because of that.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.

Sigh..

Sorry Lopri

Ok, back to the topic - what memory and what system boards are going to be the best bang for your buck....and which Conroe as well? The sweet spot for me is roughly between 3200-3500Mhz. It looks like the E6400 can get there and the E6300 might get there, depending on your setup. I don't want to push mine to the limits, so I was looking at the E6600, but am I correct to assume that I should be able to get that with the E6400? and does the 2MB L2 really make that much difference compared to the 4MB that the E6600 has?

I'd like to see the results of a similarly clocked E6400 vs. the E6600 in performance - anyone else?

The Original Dr Pepper

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.

Sigh..

Bigger Sigh.....

I am getting tired of it also. The only reason the thread was started was because of the "concerns" over the retail chips which have proven to be false. Both companies make excellent products, both are at incredible price points, and we as a consumer win based upon any choice we make between AMD and Intel. It will only get better the next couple of years. I can tell you as soon as the prices dropped that two 3800+ X2s were on their way to my house.

What are the questions?

 

[Cheng]

why was that slower o/c posted? did you change any hardware in the setup?

and do you recommend buying a new heatsink/fan?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: OcHungry

Originally posted by: Gary Key
Good Day,

In our recently published E6300 & E6400 - Value through Overclocking article we had several comments/emails about our usage of the B1 Stepping 5 CPU press samples from Intel possibly being cherry picked and therefore skewing the results. Although Intel assured us we would not see any differences we set out to purchase retail CPUs for a quick retest of the overclocking results. We blindly purchased several retail CPUs from ZipZoomFly and TigerDirect last week upon the official launch. While the original review used the Asus P5W-DH, we are showing the results on the Gigabyte DS3 this morning. I will post up results on the Asus board later this week after complete testing with the 0801 bios.

I have linked screenshots to our quick overclock results with the first retail E6400 this morning on the Gigabyte DS3 board with a Gigabyte 7950GX2 installed. This combination today has worked wonderfully at both stock and overclocked settings although we have not completed our test suite yet. I will have E6300 results up later along with additional stress test results. Until we present our full review of this amazing board, enjoy.

Stock Heat Sink, Retail B2 Stepping 6 E6400, Auto Voltage,8x380, 3040MHz

Tuniq Tower 120, Retail B2 Stepping 6 E6400, 1.4375V, 8x440, 3520MHz

p.s. I think the retail steppings overclock just fine.

Real nice, a $600 graphic card is considered a budget building system.
Why don?t you AT staff get real and for once show us something that makes sense.
Has it not occurred to you that it would be cheaper to buy a more expensive SLI motherboard and 2- $125 vid cards put the damn thing in SLI?
If you are interested in helping mainstream and budget builders, show us what you can do w/ a GF 7300/7600 and do some meaningful review/benchmarks.
How much is that DDR2 BTW? Why is it not Spi 32M? Is that because cant get it stable or not as showing off as 1M/8M?
I don?t mean to be rude to you, but lately I see AT doing everything possible to promote Intel at the expense of AMD.
I give you an example: The E6300/E6400 review shows FX62's Cinebench @ around 420.
Then explain to me how I can get 464 for this cheap A64 3000 OC'd below FX?
Just using Gforce 7300,? I bet you, clock for clock your E6300/6400 can not reach it, using same level of vid card. Guess what ? Motherboard+CPU+ Ram+ Vid card = $ 280 over here.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/1407/08012006030438zi2.jpg

Or what about this?
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5094/08012006012750sd2.jpg

Or this?
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8021/08012006025124vl7.jpg

I bet your E6800 @ 4gig cant touch this either:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7624/07202006014443gk5.jpg

Can your E6300 so called budget system beat 27:08m 32M @ 2790mhz?
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4521/07192006044246qv0.jpg

All of above on stock cooling and good ole cheapo A64 3000 Asrock Mobo.
Bet is on, bring it on.

1. Your SLI notions are insane no pair of cards can touch a $250 7900GT stock let alone overclocked price/performance wise. Sli is a bad bad deal always since second card only adds 60-80% over original. Nevermind the increased cost of the motherboard.. will SLI run on your $60 asrock? no. You need at least a $110 board. Got room in your tight budget for another PSU for two cards now? Sli for value shoppers is stupid period.

2. The very last Benchmark you want to match A64's up against Conroes is Super pi. Conroes absolutly crush A64's...Who's side are you on again?

3. Nice overclocks and there's no denying A64's and X2's have thier place..they are fast and overclock well: Anand maintians that opinion even in his conroe review so does Kyle at HARDOCP.. But Conroe is 20% faster clock for clock and clocks higher. Conroe is for performance buyers who have to have the best as it is the best.. No it won't win price/performance yet and no you can't build a $280 CPU/MOBO/GPU setup yet. But we'll get there with aftermarket chispets and E4300's .. just give it time. Intel, like AMD, wants to make the big profit chips first to get high profits from early adopters.

4. Show some repect to Gary.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Gary Key

Originally posted by: lopri
How come every single thread turns to Intel vs AMD? I had a couple questions/comments regarding the original post and the subsequent comments, but after following this much I don't feel like bring them up.

Sigh..

Bigger Sigh.....

I am getting tired of it also. The only reason the thread was started was because of the "concerns" over the retail chips which have proven to be false. Both companies make excellent products, both are at incredible price points, and we as a consumer win based upon any choice we make between AMD and Intel. It will only get better the next couple of years. I can tell you as soon as the prices dropped that two 3800+ X2s were on their way to my house.

What are the questions?

Gary the last two 3800+'s I got are 3Ghz stable at minimal volts.. I think it's a better value than E6300 assuming that 2.5 -2.6Ghz is the best you got out of her. These allendale motherboards really worry me. First not hitting high enough FSB to take advantage of the low end chips with thier low multipliers.. Second, if they do hit over 400FSB, can they maintain those speeds for 24/7 usage? That's something I'd like to see... As you know to hit 3Ghz on a 3800+ all you need is 300Mhz "FSB" which almost all boards can do trivially and maintain those speeds as daily crunchers.

As of now, based on low overclocks you feeatured, I'm forced to spend on 6600/6700 for a decent multiplier to exceed what I have already. I really did'nt want to do that... I'd like to see a redo of "E6300 & E6400 - Value through Overclocking article " with more boards..maxing FSB and talking about longterm stabilty.

 

[Gary Key]

Originally posted by: Cheng
why was that slower o/c posted? did you change any hardware in the setup?

and do you recommend buying a new heatsink/fan?

I posted stock E6400 and overclocked E6400 numbers. There is no need to go back and test the E6300 nor will I post results to his other requests as the end result remains the same. End of subject on this matter, otherwise the thread will get out of control and head to the point of being locked. Not upset with you, just trying to state the obvious and this post was a good place to start. :beer:

Yes, I do recommend buying a new heatsink/fan. Two reasons, if you overclock you will require a better unit for 24/7 operation, and if you do not there are several coolers that offer reduced acoustics with the same or better thermals than the retail heatsink. Honestly, the quality and performance of the retail AMD Opteron heatsinks is what Intel should be judged by on this processor series. That being said, the retail unit is okay, just not a long term option in my opinion.

Welcome to the boards.

 

[lopri]

One of the issues I wanted to talk about is the advantage/disadvantage of frequencies of CPU, memory, and FSB, respectively. In this particular case (DS3), while the DS3 can push high FSB, without a capable set of memory, at some point you will eventually run into a dilemma - to give up 1:1 or not to give up. I'll take an example for easier understanding:

A. The FSB limit is 500.
B. Your memory does up to DDR2-800 and/or even though the FSB itself can be raised up to 500, it won't handle memory @1:1 due to the high stress on MCH

So if one were to maximize his/her CPU, he'd run the CPU @3.5GHz (7x500) with 4:3 divider which would result in DDR2-750. I'd certainly think the advantage of high CPU frequency will overshadow the less-than-ideal ratio. But what if the difference between Max FSB and Max memory gets smaller? Say;

A. The FSB limit is 470
B. Your memory seems fine up to DDR2-900.

Of course since we're assuming the CPU is not a variable (let's just think it's good up to 4.0GHz), if one were to go for the max CPU the final clock will be 3.4GHz (7x470), but would have to deal with the 3:4 ratio. Settling @2.15GHz (7x450) would allow 1:1 ratio between memory:FSB.

Now we know there is a definite penalty of memory running slower than FSB, the question becomes "to what degree". If one were to give up 1:1, how much more CPU MHz would need to be guaranteed? (if at all) It can become even more complicated since we know the FSB itself can and does affect the peformance. But for now I'd take the FSB itself out of equation unless its effect is bigger than the above mentioned siatuation.

 

[Zebo]

We definity need a 1:1 vs asnyc benchmarks for Core. So much fun ahead of us I can't wait.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Dr Pepper

Ok, back to the topic - what memory and what system boards are going to be the best bang for your buck....and which Conroe as well? The sweet spot for me is roughly between 3200-3500Mhz. It looks like the E6400 can get there and the E6300 might get there, depending on your setup. I don't want to push mine to the limits, so I was looking at the E6600, but am I correct to assume that I should be able to get that with the E6400? and does the 2MB L2 really make that much difference compared to the 4MB that the E6600 has?

I'd like to see the results of a similarly clocked E6400 vs. the E6600 in performance - anyone else?

The Original Dr Pepper

2MB vs 4MB was compared in AT's first official Conroe benchmark.
(Yields an average of 3.5% increase in performance across numerous applications.)

 

[lopri]

Also I'm hearing there is no "dividers" in DS3's BIOS, is that true? (couldn't believe it) What kind of divider options exist in this board?

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Denithor

Originally posted by: Dr Pepper

Ok, back to the topic - what memory and what system boards are going to be the best bang for your buck....and which Conroe as well? The sweet spot for me is roughly between 3200-3500Mhz. It looks like the E6400 can get there and the E6300 might get there, depending on your setup. I don't want to push mine to the limits, so I was looking at the E6600, but am I correct to assume that I should be able to get that with the E6400? and does the 2MB L2 really make that much difference compared to the 4MB that the E6600 has?

I'd like to see the results of a similarly clocked E6400 vs. the E6600 in performance - anyone else?

The Original Dr Pepper

2MB vs 4MB was compared in AT's first official Conroe benchmark.
(Yields an average of 3.5% increase in performance across numerous applications.)

And when you take into account that 1066MHz -> 1333MHz FSB yields a 2.4% performance gain, the difference comes down to ~1% for overclocked E6300s vs E6600s at the same clockspeed, due to the E6300 having a lower multi and hence higher FSB for a given clockspeed:

ie. E6300 @ 3.5GHz = 500FSB, E6600 @ 3.5GHz = 389FSB.

Of course E6600s still tend to get higher clocks than E6300 (up to 4GHz on air it seems) so they still have their place in the enthusiast market.

EDIT - The author was comparing E6400 to E6600, sorry I forgot that. My explanation still stands, although obviously the FSB advantage on the E6400 would be smaller.

So figure 1.5% advantage clock for clock for E6600 vs E6400 once both are heavily overclocked.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: lopri
Also I'm hearing there is no "dividers" in DS3's BIOS, is that true? (couldn't believe it) What kind of divider options exist in this board?

I think it means there are no dividers below 1:1 on the DS3. What this means is that you can't run the RAM slower than the FSB. All the ratios only allow you to run the RAM faster than the FSB (for small performance gains).

It may be an issue if you are running some very cheap and slow DDR2 RAM and push your E6300/6400 to 400FSB and beyond.

However, as Anandtech's excellent buying guide points out, nowadays even budget DDR2-533 is capable of reaching 800MHz+ speeds at decent timings with a bit of extra voltage, so it shouldn't be too big an issue for most people, especially E6400 users.

E6300 users would be wise to spend a little more on DDR2-800 rated RAM instead (doesn't have to be the high end stuff like Corsair, they are ripoffs IMO) as they shouldn't have any problems reaching up to DDR2-1000 speeds and would ensure that the RAM isn't the limiting factor in the overclock.