E8400 vs Q6600 for $200

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RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: jaredpace
yah, but you're comparing older 65nm tech. 2 more cores is obviously not providing a benifit for the cost premium. If you check the crysis bench in the xbit link, theres about a 6 percent increase in performance when using the overclocked wolfdale.

while its 6% it's still faster, so where is the arguement? especially when the price is cheaper.

the decision to buy a q6600 lies in the need for use of multi-threaded programs. Then the premium is worth it.

In the meanwhile I'll look for comparisons of oc'd q6600 vs oc'd e8400 in games where the resolutions are very high.

What's comparing 65nm or 45nm have to do with anything? If 2.4ghz is more than sufficient and 2.93ghz isn't providing any benefit with 8800GTX, then 4.0ghz 45nm isn't going to provide any more benefit whatsoever.

In Crysis benchmarks you linked an E8500 4.3ghz is getting 82.8 frames while Q6600 3.6ghz is getting 78.03 frames. I would wager there is no onn on the planet that could physically tell the difference between 83 vs. 78 frames and say that 78 frames is too slow. Not only that but you would increase your resolution or image quality until at the very least you can squeeze the most image enhancements and performance is at 60fps (= 60HZ on an LCD or it's maximum frame output).

Your argument would make a lot more sense only in a scenario where E8400 OC provided much higher MINIMUM framerates in games over Q6600 OC. Unfortunately I cannot find any benchmarks to support this either.
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
yah but aren't you going to want 4ghz vs. 2.4ghz when you graphics card is not the bottleneck? (ie SLI)

I think it should be noted that the price of the Q6600's is going down and is instock anywhere you try to find it. Comparatively, the price of the E8400 is going up and is in high demand and short supply. I think intel estimated much greater sales of the quad cores. I like the idea of a quad core, but until its advantages are substantial in games, I wouldn't get one.

the 2-3 year argument shows the q6600 more favorable however and is a good point for users not planning to upgrade to nehalem. In 2 years, when games are using 4 cores, a 3.6ghz q6600 is probably going to be A LOT faster than a 4ghz e8400. I bet we even see that in "Alan Wake" this year. As it stands now (in games) quad core users are early adopters that are not getting an advantage of having 4 cores. This is surely to change.

It's up to the buyer if he or she wants a q6600 or e8400, but i think supply/demand says it all.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
Originally posted by: jaredpace
yah but aren't you going to want 4ghz vs. 2.4ghz when you graphics card is not the bottleneck? (ie SLI)

Yes, I agree. In a scenario where the bottleneck from the graphics card is lifted, the importance of a faster CPU is far more critical.

I just think most ppl think cpu matters a lot more in gaming than it really does (because it did in Quake 3 days). Remember the Mhz myth? Imagine trying to tell someone in 2001 that Athlon XP 1.8ghz was faster than P4 2.4ghz....Some myths never die. Of course there isn't a hard rule that applies to every single game out there. But generally speaking, imo, any modern CPU is going to be sufficient for gaming.

Either way, the consumer wins with Q6600 or E8400
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Either way, the consumer wins with Q6600 or E8400


Yep. Basically the two best buys on the market right now, easily tied for first, or "depending on the apps" 1rst and 2nd place.
 

Aztech

Golden Member
Jan 19, 2002
1,922
0
0
I read through, but I'm still kinda confused. Low power/heat is important in my case. Can someone tell me which is better in this respect? And also compared to the upcoming CPUs.
What are all the benefits of 45nm? Thanks.
 

idiotekniQues

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2007
2,572
0
76
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
It makes me wonder what I got myself into, buying two Q6600 G0s. I'm on a fairly limited budget, so increased power costs are an issue for me. I thought I was getting an incredible deal at $200 for a quad-core, but perhaps it would have been wiser to wait for the Q9450, if it would have paid for itself in terms of lower power bills.

What do you think? Should I sell off my Q6600s and buy Q9450s instead?

Well you got to figure those G0's are gonna cost you ~$30/month if you run them fully loaded 24/7. More if you clock them above 3.3GHz with more than 1.4Vcore.

Your electricity costs may be different from mine naturally, my location is Pennsylvania for reference.

Figure 2/3 of the power consumption is from CPU, and Q9450 will use 1/2 the power of a Q6600 at comparable clocks. So your potential savings are 1/3 the power bill, or $10/month in going with Q9450.

So now you got to run out the numbers as far as how long you intend to operate the chips (their lifetime to you) and figure out how much you stand to save in electricity bills by upgrading and figure out if you'll save money in the end.

hey, ive been tryin to figure out my electricity costs for my rig in sig.

how did you calculate your electricity intake for your rig? do you count vid card consumption as well? just the chip itself?

 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
It makes me wonder what I got myself into, buying two Q6600 G0s. I'm on a fairly limited budget, so increased power costs are an issue for me. I thought I was getting an incredible deal at $200 for a quad-core, but perhaps it would have been wiser to wait for the Q9450, if it would have paid for itself in terms of lower power bills.

What do you think? Should I sell off my Q6600s and buy Q9450s instead?

Well you got to figure those G0's are gonna cost you ~$30/month if you run them fully loaded 24/7. More if you clock them above 3.3GHz with more than 1.4Vcore.

Your electricity costs may be different from mine naturally, my location is Pennsylvania for reference.

Figure 2/3 of the power consumption is from CPU, and Q9450 will use 1/2 the power of a Q6600 at comparable clocks. So your potential savings are 1/3 the power bill, or $10/month in going with Q9450.

So now you got to run out the numbers as far as how long you intend to operate the chips (their lifetime to you) and figure out how much you stand to save in electricity bills by upgrading and figure out if you'll save money in the end.

hey, ive been tryin to figure out my electricity costs for my rig in sig.

how did you calculate your electricity intake for your rig? do you count vid card consumption as well? just the chip itself?

My numbers are system-level at the wall power consumption, not broken out by computer component.

Two ways i measured, first I used a Kill-a-watt at the wall outlet and monitored the system power consumption. This gave me a ballpark expectation.

Then my electricity provider (PPL) allows residential users to login to their online account and see their daily electricity consumption (graphed or tabulated). So I pulled the electrical data for every day of November versus January.

My heat is natural gas, so only thing in my power is lights, fridge, washer which I am dead habitual about (as I verified in my daily power usage from PPL) so it was pretty much an easy 9th grade algebra calculation to deduce how much my quads (systems, not just CPU) were adding to my power bill.
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,310
687
126
Bad news for folks near a MicroCenter. Just received their weekly flyers and they raised the price of Q6600 back to $260. No more $200 for a Q6600.. (at least for now)

Edit: But knowing MicroCenter's pretty messed-up inventory system, I wouldn't be surprised if some stores haven't updated their system yet. So there might be a still chance if someone is in need of a cheap Q6600.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: lopri
Bad news for folks near a MicroCenter. Just received their weekly flyers and they raised the price of Q6600 back to $260. No more $200 for a Q6600.. (at least for now)

Edit: But knowing MicroCenter's pretty messed-up inventory system, I wouldn't be surprised if some stores haven't updated their system yet. So there might be a still chance if someone is in need of a cheap Q6600.

I got an email today listing the Q6600 at $199 til 3/16 in-store only.

http://cps7.00b.net/498/conten.../03.04.viewonline.html
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
81
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: lopri
Bad news for folks near a MicroCenter. Just received their weekly flyers and they raised the price of Q6600 back to $260. No more $200 for a Q6600.. (at least for now)

Edit: But knowing MicroCenter's pretty messed-up inventory system, I wouldn't be surprised if some stores haven't updated their system yet. So there might be a still chance if someone is in need of a cheap Q6600.

I got an email today listing the Q6600 at $199 til 3/16 in-store only.

http://cps7.00b.net/498/conten.../03.04.viewonline.html

man that is so photochopped. Did tulip email you that?



JKJKJKJk

 

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,200
0
0
Actually, I got a legit email today from MC still advertising the $199.99 price.

But I also got a snail mail catalog for 3/3-3/16 that lists the price as now being $259.99. Per my sales guy at my MC, the price is still $199.99 there but could change at any time.

Run, don't wait ...
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,543
651
126
Originally posted by: jaredpace
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: lopri
Bad news for folks near a MicroCenter. Just received their weekly flyers and they raised the price of Q6600 back to $260. No more $200 for a Q6600.. (at least for now)

Edit: But knowing MicroCenter's pretty messed-up inventory system, I wouldn't be surprised if some stores haven't updated their system yet. So there might be a still chance if someone is in need of a cheap Q6600.

I got an email today listing the Q6600 at $199 til 3/16 in-store only.

http://cps7.00b.net/498/conten.../03.04.viewonline.html

man that is so photochopped. Did tulip email you that?



JKJKJKJk


It's actually the 'If you can't read this email, view it online' link. You'll also find that all of the links on top of the page take you to microcenter.com
 

idiotekniQues

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2007
2,572
0
76
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
It makes me wonder what I got myself into, buying two Q6600 G0s. I'm on a fairly limited budget, so increased power costs are an issue for me. I thought I was getting an incredible deal at $200 for a quad-core, but perhaps it would have been wiser to wait for the Q9450, if it would have paid for itself in terms of lower power bills.

What do you think? Should I sell off my Q6600s and buy Q9450s instead?

Well you got to figure those G0's are gonna cost you ~$30/month if you run them fully loaded 24/7. More if you clock them above 3.3GHz with more than 1.4Vcore.

Your electricity costs may be different from mine naturally, my location is Pennsylvania for reference.

Figure 2/3 of the power consumption is from CPU, and Q9450 will use 1/2 the power of a Q6600 at comparable clocks. So your potential savings are 1/3 the power bill, or $10/month in going with Q9450.

So now you got to run out the numbers as far as how long you intend to operate the chips (their lifetime to you) and figure out how much you stand to save in electricity bills by upgrading and figure out if you'll save money in the end.

hey, ive been tryin to figure out my electricity costs for my rig in sig.

how did you calculate your electricity intake for your rig? do you count vid card consumption as well? just the chip itself?

My numbers are system-level at the wall power consumption, not broken out by computer component.

Two ways i measured, first I used a Kill-a-watt at the wall outlet and monitored the system power consumption. This gave me a ballpark expectation.

Then my electricity provider (PPL) allows residential users to login to their online account and see their daily electricity consumption (graphed or tabulated). So I pulled the electrical data for every day of November versus January.

My heat is natural gas, so only thing in my power is lights, fridge, washer which I am dead habitual about (as I verified in my daily power usage from PPL) so it was pretty much an easy 9th grade algebra calculation to deduce how much my quads (systems, not just CPU) were adding to my power bill.


cool. i was tryin to find a relatively good estimate of a rig similar to mine in regards to electricity consumption.

my quad is on about 1/3 of the week total time (a lot of the weekends but about 5-6 hours on any given weekday) , and most of the time not under load, so i should be at least 1/2 of your costs if our kw prices are similar.

not bad, less than i thought so i can live with that.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
cool. i was tryin to find a relatively good estimate of a rig similar to mine in regards to electricity consumption.

my quad is on about 1/3 of the week total time (a lot of the weekends but about 5-6 hours on any given weekday) , and most of the time not under load, so i should be at least 1/2 of your costs if our kw prices are similar.

not bad, less than i thought so i can live with that.

Yeah my power consumption is from fully loaded 24x7 but with basically zero-load on the video cards. So if you are loaded 1/3 of the time but are doing stuff that are pulling amps thru your video card then I'd think 1/2 the power consumption is about to be expected (maybe $8 a month total to your power bill).
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,205
126
I made a mistake in my electric cost estimation. My "rate" shown on my bill is approx $0.10/Kwh, but there's a "rate adjustement" charge shown on the bill too that is $0.04/Kwh. So my costs would be closer to $40/mo to run a quad-core. That's getting pretty steep for me.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I made a mistake in my electric cost estimation. My "rate" shown on my bill is approx $0.10/Kwh, but there's a "rate adjustement" charge shown on the bill too that is $0.04/Kwh. So my costs would be closer to $40/mo to run a quad-core. That's getting pretty steep for me.

Are you sure its $40 and not $20? You were missing a divider of 2 in one of the posts up above (no thanks to me because I reported power bill being up $30 for 2 quads added to my bill)
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: lopri
Bad news for folks near a MicroCenter. Just received their weekly flyers and they raised the price of Q6600 back to $260. No more $200 for a Q6600.. (at least for now)

Edit: But knowing MicroCenter's pretty messed-up inventory system, I wouldn't be surprised if some stores haven't updated their system yet. So there might be a still chance if someone is in need of a cheap Q6600.

I got an email today listing the Q6600 at $199 til 3/16 in-store only.

http://cps7.00b.net/498/conten.../03.04.viewonline.html

So does this mean March 17 is when Microcenter sells the Q9450 for $299?
 

harpoon84

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2006
1,084
0
0
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
IMO it's important to compare things in context. Who buys an E8400 or Q6600 and plays at 1024x768 with 0AA/0AF? I just dont see any backup for the claims that E8400 4.0ghz will run faster in games than Q6600 3.4ghz. Slower clocked C2D processors are enough in the real world since you are mostly GPU limited anyways.

But there will be tasks like WinRAR where a Quad will be 40% faster. So the way I look at it, E8400 won't be materially faster in games while there is a chance a Quad will be faster in some apps. For this reason I went with a quad right off the bat 6 months ago. Then again I run BOINC and video encoding so it wasn't difficult to choose for my purposes.

Here are some 8800GTX cpu scaling benches at 1600x1200 with AA/AF:

Company of Heroes
C2D 1.86ghz = 65.5fps
C2D 3.33ghz = 71.1fps

FEAR
C2D 1.86ghz = 65fps
C2D 3.33ghz = 65fps

Prey
C2D 1.86ghz = 71.5fps
C2D 3.33ghz = 72.8fps

X3 Reunion
C2D 1.86ghz = 63.8fps
C2D 3.33ghz = 76.9fps

Here are more cpu scaling benches with 8800GT 512/8800GTX:
COD4 1280x1024
C2D 2.4ghz = 77
C2D 2.93ghz = 77

UT3 2048x1536
C2D 2.4ghz = 85
C2D 2.93ghz = 85

Crysis 1600x1200
C2D 2.4ghz = 26
C2D 2.93ghz = 26

World in Conflict - 1600x1200
C2D 2.4ghz = 36
C2D 2.93ghz = 36

Bioshock 1600x1200
C2D 2.4ghz = 63
C2D 2.93ghz = 65

Command and Conquer 3 - 2048x1536
C2D 1.86ghz = 30
C2D 2.93ghz = 30

Supreme Commander 1600x1200
C2D 2.93ghz = 38
C2Q 2.66ghz = 43

Battlefield 2142 1600x1200
C2D 1.9ghz = 63
C2D 2.93ghz = 63
*this one has 7900GTX

Furthermore, a single core A64 @ 2.4ghz isn't sufficient to play half of the current games, while X2 3800+ 2.0ghz can still be used to some extent. E8400 4.0ghz is about 25% faster than Q6600 3.4ghz (theoretically speaking), much in the same way A64 2.4ghz was 20% faster than X2 3800+. Of course X2 3800+ is itself slow today. Therefore, you can make an argument that even Q6600 3.4ghz won't be fast enough in the future (i.e. E8400 4.0ghz = 20fps in 2010, Q6600 3.4ghz = 36fps in 2010 while Nehalem 4.5ghz = 60fps in 2010).

So it might be a moot point afterall. But things like electricity costs and the cost of an aftermarket heatsink to get Q6600 to 3.4ghz should be taken into consideration.

Why did you leave out the E6300 in the Sup Com comparison?

You also left out NWN2, a game that actually scales with a 3GHz C2D...
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/6163248/p-7.html
 

OLpal

Member
Feb 12, 2008
188
0
0
HI WINTERPOOL & EDROM
yOUR ANSWER OR CHOICE BOILS DOWN TO ARE YOU CLOSE TO A MICROCENTER, IN ORDER TO DRIVE DOWN THERE & PICK UP A q6600 [OOOPPS SORRY FOR CAPS] for <$200
If you figure they're both fine chips you can't really go wrong, unless you have some demanding software that makes use of the Quad=Core... I chose the E8400 & enjoy it very much, but if the Q6600 had been @ NE for $200 it might have been a different story..
Performance wise , if you look @ these benchies @ there native stock speeds,, the E8500 tears the Q6600 up pretty good & seems they're both besting the 9600 Phenom which is a true quad core !!
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...uad-q9300_8.html#sect1
One thing i disagree with is OC'n the E8500 to 4.3ghz ; what's the point if GPU is the bottleneck ,, but that cooler running E8500 with 45nm architexture with higher OC'n capability is the "coup-de-grace" for the Wolfdales superiority !!
In my book you can't go wrong with either one !!
People who have Q6600 or E8400 made very good & informed [sweetspot] choices !!

Let us know which sys you build !! Ol'Pal Gary


Originally posted by: Winterpool
I've been following this discussion, and perusing many of the online benchmarks, trying to decide the same question: Q6600 v E8400 (which could more generally be framed as present quadcore v near-future dualcore). As with many other contentious issues, even when we agree on the data we have (current benchmarks, cpu prices, energy costs, etc), we can't come to a definitive conclusion because of future variables, the data we don't have and can only guess.

For example, I don't think energy prices are going to come down any time soon, but how fast will they be increasing? The inflation figures released this past week were rather alarming... And do we even know what cpu prices will be? The original terms of this discussion assumed the Micro Centre sale prices ($190 E8400 v $200 Q6600), but the E8400s are essentiallly unavailable whilst the Q6600s seem to be plentiful. In the next couple of months, the E8400s (not to mention other Penryns) should become available in real volume, but the Q6600 could very well settle at a price higher than the current MC sale. I don't believe the leaked price schedules anymore: without real competition from Sunnyvale, Intel can take its time releasing new processors at lower prices. Look at the current transition to Penryn: where are the Wolfdales? When they're available, some retailers are charging $250+ for E8400s. It seems Intel is quite content to clear out Conroe inventories first.

I've been slowly accumulating the parts for a modern system, taking advantage of the post-Christmas sales and rebates (for example heavily discounted Antec NeoHE and P182). This week I was rushed into buying a video card (which I'd intended to be one of my final purchases) because of the limited availability of the first-run ASUS EN9600GTs (what can I say? I'm a sucker for a pretty lady ). I also bought the Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400C4 as the rebate was about to expire. At this point I've only the motherboard and cpu left. A part of me wants to have done now, which means buying the $200 Q6600. I can wait, say, a month for sub-$200 E8400s to become available (I'm going to buy the Abit IP35-E before its Newegg rebate expires in mid-March). But what if Wolfdales remain rare and/or over $200 for the spring? Then I'll kick myself for not buying these MC Q6600s.

If I were certain that affordable Wolfdales were imminent, then I'd wait for the E8400, maybe even the E8500. I'm wary of quadcore's greater power draw: at idle (which is realistically where my computer will be most of the time), it can be a 90 per cent difference. I'm not a gamer, and my only high-intensity tasks will be video encoding and some editing. More cores are better for media, but on the other hand the Q6600 won't support SSE4.

Of course given the facts above, I should probably just buy the $100 E4500 from Micro Centre. Does anyone know if those are still available? By the way, I'm typing this on an Athlon XP system!

Edit: if Caminetto is correct, then my spare kit is going to be sitting round all spring waiting for Penryn. Someone please convince me otherwise...

 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,205
126
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Are you sure its $40 and not $20? You were missing a divider of 2 in one of the posts up above (no thanks to me because I reported power bill being up $30 for 2 quads added to my bill)
At $0.10/Kwh, I calulated the cost of a single quad-core as $28.80 per month. Divide that by 0.10 and multiply by 0.14. $40.32 is what I come up with. That's for a single quad.
 

BoboKatt

Senior member
Nov 18, 2004
529
0
0
I use my UPS which has an LCD monitor on it showing the current draw. When my Q6600 G0 @ 3.2Ghz sits idle with my 8800GTX, it's amazing how "low" the usage is. However start encoding or running 3DMark06 and WOWOWO ouch. I really need to look into that -- seeing that review from X-Bit showing the power consumption of a Q6600 @ 3.6 at idle was staggering to say the least.

I actually found that review perfect for me. I was trying to see at what point an Oc'ed 8400 or 8500 would "catch" up to my current Q6600 when encoding in DivX or Xvid and H264. Essentially I was trying to justify a change to an 8400-8500 with all the hype thinking that if I were to OC those newer CPU?s it to say 4GHz, the lack of the extra 2 cores over my Q6600 would effectively be offset by its massive OC potential.

I see now that I honestly have no reason to even consider the 8400/8500... since all I really do is video encoding and the occasional game like WoW or EQ.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Are you sure its $40 and not $20? You were missing a divider of 2 in one of the posts up above (no thanks to me because I reported power bill being up $30 for 2 quads added to my bill)
At $0.10/Kwh, I calulated the cost of a single quad-core as $28.80 per month. Divide that by 0.10 and multiply by 0.14. $40.32 is what I come up with. That's for a single quad.

Dang, that definitely smarts.

I spent Feb being religious about shutting down my 3.73Ghz B3 QX6700 computer anytime I wasn't going to be using just to see how much of an impact this electricity gulper was having.

It was annoying to do but I was religious about it multiple time very single day. The system was gulping down 700W at the wall (dual 24" DELL's included).

The net result, I saved $40 on my Feb power bill. If figure that one majorly overclocked quad was adding ~$60/month to my power bill.

Now I'm going to work on seeing how much money I can save on my car insurance
 

DJBoo

Junior Member
Nov 23, 2007
13
0
0
I just built a new system and went with the Q6600 on sale at microcenter for 199, $214 with tax. See my sig for system. I tried to go 3.6 ghz but at max utilization I was close to 70c say 68c Tcase 70c range Tjunction , so I backed down to 3.2ghz, running good

I am getting idle 38 to 40 c and load 58 to 60c (Tcase temps) , thats max load with 4 prime95's going on cpu.



LOUD

 

BoboKatt

Senior member
Nov 18, 2004
529
0
0
DJboo those are the EXACT same temps I get idle and load -- 3.6 was just not worth it heat wise... and heck... now power wise/energy costs!
 
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