Economic Stimulus Idea

[giantjoebot]

Economic Stimulus Idea

I have an idea that would help our countries economy grow through investing in solar panels.

Step one:
Train a bunch of people to install solar panels.

Step two:
Have those people, at a lower wage, install American made solar panels on all government building that receive enough sunlight every year to make it practical.

What this will do:

First, it will create SKILLED laborers, who can then start their own business, or work for a company after they have worked for the government at a low wage.

Second, it will increase the demand for American made solar panels. Basic economics shows that if you increase the demand companies will increase production and the price will drop. So this will make solar panels cheaper, and stimulate the American solar panel industry. The United States could become the world leader in solar panel production.

Third, it will reduce energy consumption, which should reduce energy costs for everyone else.

Forth, this is an investment that the government is making. Those solar panels will eventually pay themselves off, and actually save the government money.

Summary:
By creating skilled workers who can install solar panels on government building, we can stimulate the US solar panel industry. When its done there will be cheap solar panels, and plenty of skilled laborers to install them. This will reduce energy consumption nation wide, which should reduce energy costs, and eventually save the government money.

If anyone thinks this is a good idea, and wants to pass it along. Maybe post it in another forum, or something, please do. Just give me credit please.

 

[gingermeggs]

Labourers or technicians? and why do they have to be lowly paid? maybe you could take the job on under such an arrangement?
Sounds more like realm of a skilled electrical trade.
Why is it some people want somebody else to wash the dishes all the time!
How about we see some productivity gains in the administrative parts of the economy, seeing they got all this I.T gear that makes them more efficient in the last 10 years or so.

 

[theflyingpig]

What a horrible idea.

 

[Newbian]

I prefer wind turbines.

Plus they only take up one square...

 

[sandorski]

It would not be a bad idea. It may not work out in making a difference after the Government Buildings were upgraded though. However, it might work out, if not on the whole, then likely to a certain extent. Solar Energy will only continue to gain acceptance and usage. Familiarizing Workers with the Industry will provide greater ability to implement the Technology. It should be noted though that one of the largest and fastest growing Corps making Solar Panels is Chinese. So even if it does work out, Made in China may become the norm there as well.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Newbian
I prefer wind turbines.

Plus they only take up one square...

:laugh:

They both have their Pros/Cons. You could implement various Wind Turbine systems into Buildings, but both could be implemented without too much difficulty.

 

[giantjoebot]

theflyingpig thanks for the comment without anything to back it up

They would be low paid because they are receiving training in return, and they don't have any skill to begin with. This way it cost less for the government to install the solar panels. How is this wanting somebody else to wash the dishes all the time? This is way better then rebates and tax breaks. Here lets take your tax money and give it to someone else so they can have solar panels. I would much rather see, here lets take your money teach someone a trade, encourage an industry, and save the tax payers some money down the road.

You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
...
You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

but give millions more people govt jobs and they are on the dole for life... by the time these coolie labor forces get some stuff installed the repair and servicing would require legions of highly trained labor to maintain the whole mess... maybe it would cover bo's whole 3mm new jobs...

this is one of the costs that people seem to forget about in this push... the stuff isn't self installing, it needs to be installed properly, and it requires ongoing maintenance and repair on a huge scale when deployed... these are all real costs... and just look how people bitch about car repairs... just think about if your water and power quit working...

 

[Cuda1447]

I agree with paying a lower wage. Hell, take everyone who is on unemployment, offer them this job instead, if they don't want it they don't get anything. Work for your money or dont get any money!

 

[MovingTarget]

Well, in theory this could work if the right kind of system were set up. Say, having people sign a contract to work for the gvt for the lower wage for x amount of time while the gvt provides them the training and experience. After their service is up, release them into the job market with a new skill.

However, this will run into problems if these newly trained people in the job market still have to compete with those making the lower wages. That would have to be addressed. Second, the demand for solar panels isn't all that high due to economic issues. I am pro-solar energy, but the gvt would have to provide incentives for that industry to have a realistic chance of taking off. Also, you have a problem with the 'made in America' issue in that many will scream protectionism. Personally, I think that protectionism has its place, but nobody wants to start a trade war.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
...
You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

but give millions more people govt jobs and they are on the dole for life... by the time these coolie labor forces get some stuff installed the repair and servicing would require legions of highly trained labor to maintain the whole mess... maybe it would cover bo's whole 3mm new jobs...

this is one of the costs that people seem to forget about in this push... the stuff isn't self installing, it needs to be installed properly, and it requires ongoing maintenance and repair on a huge scale when deployed... these are all real costs... and just look how people bitch about car repairs... just think about if your water and power quit working...

negative. If you read the OPs suggestion, Installing was a big part of it. Once it's installed Maintenance is rather easy.

 

[IronWing]

Go over to recovery.gov and read the project descriptions. The Feds are spending a big chunk of change on solar installations on government buildings.

 

[cubeless]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: cubeless

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
...
You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

but give millions more people govt jobs and they are on the dole for life... by the time these coolie labor forces get some stuff installed the repair and servicing would require legions of highly trained labor to maintain the whole mess... maybe it would cover bo's whole 3mm new jobs...

this is one of the costs that people seem to forget about in this push... the stuff isn't self installing, it needs to be installed properly, and it requires ongoing maintenance and repair on a huge scale when deployed... these are all real costs... and just look how people bitch about car repairs... just think about if your water and power quit working...

negative. If you read the OPs suggestion, Installing was a big part of it. Once it's installed Maintenance is rather easy.

double negative... you have obviously never seen what's entailed in a real installation in a large building... it's a complex system that, if not done well, is a maintenance nightmare... and even if done properly, troubleshooting any system in a large installation is not a simple job... and these would be doubly problematic as 'add-ons' in an existing building, which are much more problematic than new construction installations...

 

[giantjoebot]

Leave maintenance to the private sector. It will give jobs to some of the people who were trained. If its such a hassle to have them installed on large buildings, then the industry should adapt, and start to produce systems that are more reliable, and require less maintenance.

There are already government programs that are similare, such as Jobcorp, Americorp, and the California Conservation Corps.

They could even make it like military duty. Sign up for a year or two, come out with a skill. Except you don't have to kill people.

 

[QuantumPion]

Nothing the government spends money on can be stimulus since they took that money away from other people to begin with. Everything the government does is a zero-sum outcome with only a few exceptions.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Nothing the government spends money on can be stimulus since they took that money away from other people to begin with. Everything the government does is a zero-sum outcome with only a few exceptions.

negative

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: cubeless
snip-

Assuming a solar installation to run buildings or homes etc, what happens at night? Does the system have to switch over to regular power grid or do solar installations have viable options for night time?

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
theflyingpig thanks for the comment without anything to back it up

They would be low paid because they are receiving training in return, and they don't have any skill to begin with. This way it cost less for the government to install the solar panels. How is this wanting somebody else to wash the dishes all the time? This is way better then rebates and tax breaks. Here lets take your tax money and give it to someone else so they can have solar panels. I would much rather see, here lets take your money teach someone a trade, encourage an industry, and save the tax payers some money down the road.

You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

Tell that to the Somali fishermen turned pirate and their (foreign industrial fisherfleets)fished out waters.:roll:

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Nothing the government spends money on can be stimulus since they took that money away from other people to begin with. Everything the government does is a zero-sum outcome with only a few exceptions.

More like redirecting money to useful endeavors.

 

[Lemon law]

Part of the problem with that idea is that technology is not quite ready yet. Recent advances in nanotechnolgy have greatly increased the efficiencies of solar
panels but more R&D, R&D we should have been pushing years ago still needs to be done. And we somewhat have the same research problems with the battery technology needed to store the surplus energy solar cells generate for night time use.

But point taken, its an excellent economic stimulus idea as is because the savings are cumulative and can harness a temporary under utilized labor force. It would have been a far better idea if the technology were ready.

Nor does solar need to be only some big government plot, when it becomes feasible, private industry can be equally adept at making money and creating jobs in a totally free market situation. But governmental tax breaks would also be things to consider.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: cubeless
snip-

Assuming a solar installation to run buildings or homes etc, what happens at night? Does the system have to switch over to regular power grid or do solar installations have viable options for night time?

There would likely be some battery banks involved, and grid-tie inverters.


This doesn't seem like something I'd want unskilled laborers doing, any more than you'd want an unskilled laborer as an electrician.

Grid tie inverters can put out a lot of power, and of course since they're tied into the power grid, there are codes that need to be followed. You don't want to be an electric line worker out on a sunny day. servicing a power line that is "dead" only to find that a faulty panel array wiring job has energized that line with enough power to roast a buffalo in a half second.

And solar panels are assumed to last a long time - it's part of their whole selling point. Install once and they will live long enough to pay for themselves and then give a long, productive life. Poor installation can increase maintenance or repair costs, which lengthens the payback time.

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
Leave maintenance to the private sector. It will give jobs to some of the people who were trained. If its such a hassle to have them installed on large buildings, then the industry should adapt, and start to produce systems that are more reliable, and require less maintenance.

There are already government programs that are similare, such as Jobcorp, Americorp, and the California Conservation Corps.

They could even make it like military duty. Sign up for a year or two, come out with a skill. Except you don't have to kill people.

Making something that can sit outside 24/7 for a few decades with minimal maintenance is not an easy task. Nature is pretty damned erosive, corrosive, and abusive. They have to withstand ultraviolet exposure, daily thermal cycling, rain, the weight of snow, hail, curious animals, and wind.

Can something be made that would easily stand up to all that? Sure, no problem. I'm sure they could make panels to last 200 years with virtually no maintenance. Do you want to pay $100/watt for solar panels though?

 

[gingermeggs]

Originally posted by: giantjoebot
theflyingpig thanks for the comment without anything to back it up

They would be low paid because they are receiving training in return, and they don't have any skill to begin with. This way it cost less for the government to install the solar panels. How is this wanting somebody else to wash the dishes all the time? This is way better then rebates and tax breaks. Here lets take your tax money and give it to someone else so they can have solar panels. I would much rather see, here lets take your money teach someone a trade, encourage an industry, and save the tax payers some money down the road.

You know, give a man a fish feed him for a day, teach a man to fish feed him for life.

Not much point if your gonna let the finance and insurance industries wreck the economy every 12 years or so.
It would be wiser to do something about corporate corruption, so that you get a positive return on a dollar spent. What about all the skilled labour looking for work now?
The thing about fishing is that you've got to have fish to catch first!

 

[gingermeggs]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Part of the problem with that idea is that technology is not quite ready yet. Recent advances in nanotechnolgy have greatly increased the efficiencies of solar
panels but more R&D, R&D we should have been pushing years ago still needs to be done. And we somewhat have the same research problems with the battery technology needed to store the surplus energy solar cells generate for night time use.

But point taken, its an excellent economic stimulus idea as is because the savings are cumulative and can harness a temporary under utilized labor force. It would have been a far better idea if the technology were ready.

Nor does solar need to be only some big government plot, when it becomes feasible, private industry can be equally adept at making money and creating jobs in a totally free market situation. But governmental tax breaks would also be things to consider.

Yes, make it part of build code regulations for commercial premises.

 

[Budmantom]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Nothing the government spends money on can be stimulus since they took that money away from other people to begin with. Everything the government does is a zero-sum outcome with only a few exceptions.

negative

We all agree it will have a negative affect on the economy.

 

[Budmantom]

In theory it sounds great but it will take too long and cost too much to be cost effective.


You may spend $20,000 to save $50 per month and if our government is involved they will spend $40,000 to save $25 per month and they will only use these solar panels for a year or two.