Electrical/Hot tub question

[Regk]

Hey everyone,

I mananged to score a hot tub off a family member for 400 Bucks on Sunday. (long story, it was a bartered item that was given to my wifes uncle for some repair work he did, history on the tub is a little spotty) Now i need to have the proper 220/240 volt wiring run from my panel to the tub, but in the meantime, I was wondering if I would be able to connect a 110/120v line to the tub just to see if it fires up. Aparrently the "circuit/control board" went bad in it, and I would like to see if it would throw any fault codes on the display panel. A friend with electrical experience said that i would be able to connect the 110 volt wire to the same spots as the 220 volt connection (the tub is a 3 wire system, not a 4 wire) and it should power up, however he cautioned me not to turn on the heat or pumps. He mentiond that alot of hot tub dealers do this so they can demo the features of tubs instore.

I have no intentions of wiring it up like this for permanent use, simply for testing, maybe having the unit energised for 5-10 min just to see if it powers up before i begin sinking money into it. however i do not want to burn down the tub or my house for that matter!

Here is a link to the tubs manual

http://www.sundancespas.com/Communications/InstructionManuals/2000+Sweetwater.pdf

it is either the Palemero or Bahia model. Your input would be appreciated!

 

[DrPizza]

Without seeing the electrical diagram, I'm not comfortable saying, "yes, you can."

But, having "fixed" a circuit board for a relative, I'll point out one thing (that may or may not be true for your hot tub). Their hot tub had a magnetic switch that was triggered with the cover was in place. That is, there was a magnet mounted to the cover - if the cover was off, everything turned off. They had gotten a hot tub in similar circumstances to you, and the magnet had become detached from the cover. Figuring it out in under 5 minutes was, I think, very lucky for me. They think I'm some sort of genius after asking them for a refrigerator magnet & waving it over the circuit board and bammm the pumps turned on, etc.

I'm far from an electrical engineer - but I'd imagine the circuit board is powered by just one leg of the 220, and the rest comes off relays.

 

[Regk]

thanks for the input, I actually have the control box cover sitting in my house right now, might be worth a peek. Also, the tubs wiring diagram is in the manual link that i posted

 

[Fritzo]

Make sure you connect it properly or it will turn into a time machine.

 

[Regk]

lol, not going to lie, as we moved that beast of a tub into my backyard, thats kind of waht i thought might happen, lol!

 

[herrjimbo]

the tub will work if hooked up to 110 volts. i know this because the electrician who hooked mine up miswired it. only got the low speed of the jets and the heater didn't work (obviously). so, for testing, give it a shot. you're not going to hurt anything.

 

[TheSiege]

You just need to trace out what leg of the 220 powers the control transformer. That is where you want to hook up your 120

 

[Regk]

hmm, could you judge by looking at the manual i posted in the above link?

 

[Schmide]

With a couple long extension cords you could probably do it. In a standard electrical panel there are two poles each out of phase. Look in your box and find two outlets in your house such that one is on the odd number the other is on the even number same side or both odd or even on opposing sides or some combination such that one is red and one is blue. (see image below) Attach the cords to each outlet. You now have two 120v feeds that are out of phase. Hook the tub up hot, hot, ground.

Not responsible for blowing things up.

 

[Regk]

lol, appreciate the disclaimer

 

[Regk]

ok, just tried it and stone dead, nothing. guess that means she needs a new control board

 

[Schmide]

Did you check the F1 20a fuse? (page 31)

 

[Greenman]

Am I the only one who thinks you just paid a guy $400 to haul away his trash?

 

[Regk]

f1 fuse does not appear blown

 

[DrPizza]

With a couple long extension cords you could probably do it. In a standard electrical panel there are two poles each out of phase. Look in your box and find two outlets in your house such that one is on the odd number the other is on the even number same side or both odd or even on opposing sides or some combination such that one is red and one is blue. (see image below) Attach the cords to each outlet. You now have two 120v feeds that are out of phase. Hook the tub up hot, hot, ground.

Not responsible for blowing things up.

See amp requirements for hot tubs. Most 220V hot tubs have either 40 amp or 50 amp circuits.

 

[LookBehindYou]

Am I the only one who thinks you just paid a guy $400 to haul away his trash?

Heh, this.

 

[Schmide]

See amp requirements for hot tubs. Most 220V hot tubs have either 40 amp or 50 amp circuits.

2x20a circuits equal a 40a circuit. They're just not tied together.

 

[DrPizza]

2x20a circuits equal a 40a circuit. They're just not tied together.

Unless I'm mistaken, each pole is 40 amps. That's why it's 8 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge wire.

 

[natto fire]

Unless I'm mistaken, each pole is 40 amps. That's why it's 8 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge wire.

Yes that is correct. If doing the Schmide's ghetto 220v hookup, you would be limited to the lowest current on either pole, and possibly undersized wire if you just grabbed any old extension cord. Also, telling people to get into their panels is not a good idea, disclaimer or not. The person on the receiving end of the advice might have an old overstuffed panel, or a Federal Pacific firebox.

 

[Minerva]

Take it to a welder that has a genset welder. These are over 10,000W and can test your ho tub out just fine. A piece of 8/4 SJ/SJO cord to the panel hanging off a 50A double pole breaker will work.

If you have red colored breakers, see the letters FPE, Stab-Lok, etc. in your box stay the hell out and find an electrician LOL.

 

[DrPizza]

My suggestion: get the electric installed. My neighbor just had a circuit run for his hot tub, I think it was around $400, including materials. The disconnect box that has to be within 10 feet of the hot tub is around $75, plus you need to have a GFCI outlet within so many feet. You'll need room in your breaker box for the 40 or 50 amp circuit.

Then test your hot tub. If you don't know how to test the individual components, hopefully you have a friend who can do it. Likewise, as I mentioned above, you'll want to look at that circuit board closely. Perhaps the problem is simply some bad caps that you can replace. Or, as I mentioned above, the one that I diagnosed for my in-laws was simply missing a magnet on the cover. Without that magnet, it was dead as could be. Waved a refrigerator magnet over that part of the circuit board and bamm, the thing fired right up. Thus, I know that one had a switch to cut power to most of the board if the cover was open; and I believe mine has a switch. So, the bad circuit board could be as simple as a switch somewhere that you've overlooked.

 

[stormkroe]

Unless I'm mistaken, each pole is 40 amps. That's why it's 8 gauge wire instead of 12 gauge wire.

That's correct. 2 - 20A breakers don't make a 40A breaker. If you split a double pole breaker in two, you have two single phase breakers of the same amperage.

According to the manual on page 13, this thing is pre-wired to run on 120V/15A. It even specifies that the heating element works at 1kW instead of 4kW while doing it. To run it at 240V (which would only make the water heat up faster) some things have to be changed, wires moved. There's a chance that this thing was never properly changed to operate at 240V, which would probably ruin some internals since it's wanting 120V.

Maybe you could post a picture of the PC board with the terminals in the shot?

 

[jagec]

My suggestion: get the electric installed.

Yup, mains electricity is one of those things where the rule of "if you don't already know, I'm not going to tell you" applies in force.

Or, as I mentioned above, the one that I diagnosed for my in-laws was simply missing a magnet on the cover. Without that magnet, it was dead as could be. Waved a refrigerator magnet over that part of the circuit board and bamm, the thing fired right up. Thus, I know that one had a switch to cut power to most of the board if the cover was open; and I believe mine has a switch. So, the bad circuit board could be as simple as a switch somewhere that you've overlooked.

This seems like a strange design to me. There are times when you'll want to take the cover completely off of the hot tub (party, etc) and not want it to slowly start getting cold. If I was fixing a hot tub with this "feature" I'd probably wire around it. Or would it maintain temperature, but not allow any changes when the cover was off?

 

[OutHouse]

ok, just tried it and stone dead, nothing. guess that means she needs a new control board

if the board is dead, you are looking at 800-1000 bucks to get a new one. I knwo this becuase the board went out on mine and thank god it was under warranty.

 

[natto fire]

Just read the OP more thoroughly, and your friend is more than likely correct. I used to be a commercial electrician and installed my fair share of 220v freezers. The two models I am most familiar with behaved the exact same way. The lighting, control circuitry, and even the condenser fan were all 120v and ran off of one leg (it was the black wire in the cord). Found this out the hard way